Over-hunting stands

[Snake]

same for me. im just not a big afternoon hunter

Me either not that I haven't had success but hunting alot alone that thrill turns into dang its almost dark and I have to deal with this deer . It's even worse if he didn't die in sight . Finding , field dressing and dragging a buck out is not my ideal good night outing. Younger days it didn't matter but now don't hunt much in the evening and if I do I'm down before dusk.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Very interesting data. We have only killed 2 bucks and missed one buck in the mornings in the last 4 years. It used to be almost 50/50 between morning and evenings. Our evenings are much better for killing our big deer lately. Still seeing good deer in the mornings just not the deer we are wanting to kill. Of course we have a few stands that are just seem good regardless. We were bad about leaving our stands up and not moving them at all. Now we do the same and tweak them a little and it seems to help. Just proves 1st time in is always the best. Pair that with weather and time of the year very deadly. What is interesting to me is the little tick up on the 5th time in.

The variables for morning vs. evening productivity can vary alot, but food sources available and hunting style plays huge roles. for example, in row cropping scenarios, typically a hunter would hunt travel corridors coming from a corn field, which the deer may have a dozen trails coming from/to the corn. In the evening, he likely will hunt on the field edge with a dozen trails feeding into the corn field. In this instance, the evening hunt gives you much better odds to see more deer than the morning sit. It all depends on the food source and hunting tactics. A farm just down the road may not have crops, therefore much different hunting tactics will be required, as well as different sighting results as the deer will likely be less congregated on a non ag hunting location. MY farm is very similar to what BSK describes his farm to be, while my hunting buddy 3 miles from me has ag bottoms wrapped in steep ridges on his farm. Different tactics must be deployed to be consistently successful. If I hunt his farm the same way I hunt mine, I will not be utilizing the draw that his ag fields have and I will not see great results.

 

[13pt]

Just looking back over the past three years at the mature bucks I've taken from stands (three bow, one muzzy, and three rifle...and all in close proximity woodland hunting)...
9pt...3rd day (two consecutive afternoons and then connected the third day on the first morning hunt)
10pt...2nd day (one morning and connected on second afternoon hunt)
9pt...1st day (afternoon hunt only)
9pt...3rd day (third morning hunt in same week with one afternoon hunt)
8pt...3rd day (second afternoon hunt after two morning hunts over 3 days)
10pt...1st day (first morning hunt)
8pt...3rd day (two morning hunts and connected on second afternoon hunt on 3rd day)

This does include one western KY buck and one public land hunt. All others on private land. Just echoing your study to be spot on!

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

I sat on the upper third of a ridge almost all bowseason and didn't get a single opportunity, but was too scared to bump them out of the bottom below because I knew that is where they bedded. Once I moved down into the bottom on December 4th, got set up way up in the tree in my climber well before daylight and within and hour I had 6 does walk right past me within 10 yards and shortly thereafter had a nice 7 point come in grunting/chasing. I ended up taking him. The first sit is all it took. Don't be scared to move into/near bedding areas and be ready on that first sit in a new spot. Really wish I would've made the move earlier in the season and I probably would've taken the big seven point I was after with a 22-24inch spread. Hope he makes it to another season next year!

 

[DMD]

Just looking back over the past three years at the mature bucks I've taken from stands (three bow, one muzzy, and three rifle...and all in close proximity woodland hunting)...
9pt...3rd day (two consecutive afternoons and then connected the third day on the first morning hunt)
10pt...2nd day (one morning and connected on second afternoon hunt)
9pt...1st day (afternoon hunt only)
9pt...3rd day (third morning hunt in same week with one afternoon hunt)
8pt...3rd day (second afternoon hunt after two morning hunts over 3 days)
10pt...1st day (first morning hunt)
8pt...3rd day (two morning hunts and connected on second afternoon hunt on 3rd day)

This does include one western KY buck and one public land hunt. All others on private land. Just echoing your study to be spot on!

I understand what you are saying, but there is no way to say, if you hadn't seen those deer on the the first, second or third day - would you have seen them on the 10th time you hunted? We will never know! There's just too many variables, imo, to draw any genuine conclusions.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Just remember the differences between averages and individual stands within the data. One particular stand may be on fire, and never see a decline with extra hunts. But the other 30 stands in the same category DO see declines. The fact that one stand defies the odds doesn't invalidate the odds. And in the same vein, the odds don't mean that all stands function right on that average number. It is an average for a reason (average of all the highs and lows).

Great post. This statement definitely holds true from my experiences. I have several stands that are on the move list. I am increasing my stand sights this year to allow more flexibility this fall. There is one spot I am convinced is a hot spot I have never hunted or hung a stand at.

 

[BSK]

I saw this 1st hand.. I hunted the same stand many times a few seasons ago, primarily for freezer doe meat. It was raining one morning and chose to throw up a blind 80 yards away. I watched deer get within sight of my empty stand and stare at it for 15 min without moving an inch. They knew exactly where I'd been in the past!

That's why, when hunters ask me how far they need to move a stand to counteract over-hunting, I tell them just out of visual range of the last stand location. Depending upon habitat, that might be only 40 yards in thick stuff to 125 yards in open hardwoods.

 

[BSK]

The variables for morning vs. evening productivity can vary alot, but food sources available and hunting style plays huge roles. for example, in row cropping scenarios, typically a hunter would hunt travel corridors coming from a corn field, which the deer may have a dozen trails coming from/to the corn. In the evening, he likely will hunt on the field edge with a dozen trails feeding into the corn field. In this instance, the evening hunt gives you much better odds to see more deer than the morning sit. It all depends on the food source and hunting tactics. A farm just down the road may not have crops, therefore much different hunting tactics will be required, as well as different sighting results as the deer will likely be less congregated on a non ag hunting location. MY farm is very similar to what BSK describes his farm to be, while my hunting buddy 3 miles from me has ag bottoms wrapped in steep ridges on his farm. Different tactics must be deployed to be consistently successful. If I hunt his farm the same way I hunt mine, I will not be utilizing the draw that his ag fields have and I will not see great results.

GREAT post!

 

[13pt]

I understand what you are saying, but there is no way to say, if you hadn't seen those deer on the the first, second or third day - would you have seen them on the 10th time you hunted? We will never know! There's just too many variables, imo, to draw any genuine conclusions.

I do agree there are lots of variables to consider. I know several hunters who don't take 1/3 of my precautions. They don't give much thought to their entry and exit and therefore bump their deer every trip to their stand...don't give much thought to prevailing wind directions when picking their locations...hunt on the ground or 10 ft up in a tree, which isn't much difference...wash their hunting clothes with regular detergent...and so on. These hunters had better get their buck in the first few hunts or no doubt their probability plummets! Hunters who take every precaution, even to the extent of having a dedicated washer and dryer for hunting clothes, or even raking their walk-in trail to their stand to help sneak in and out without bumping their deer, those hunters could very well push the limits of numerous visits to the same stand before taking a mature buck. Logic would imply their chances still diminish, but when comparing those two types of hunters, those variables and more determine your particular "scale of diminishing returns".

 

[BSK]

I understand what you are saying, but there is no way to say, if you hadn't seen those deer on the the first, second or third day - would you have seen them on the 10th time you hunted? We will never know! There's just too many variables, imo, to draw any genuine conclusions.

Absolutely true that many variables exist. For instance, my data does not factor in how long it was between hunts in a single stand. Could it be that the longer the timeframe between hunts from that stand "resets" the area back to being less pressured? No idea. And it would take some complicated statistics to weed this information out of the data.

Really, what my data strongly suggests is that, on average, older buck sightings decline (but never fall to zero) the more times a stand is hunted in a single hunting season. Doesn't mean stands that stay hot don't exist. They do. But the majority do not.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

The variables for morning vs. evening productivity can vary alot, but food sources available and hunting style plays huge roles. for example, in row cropping scenarios, typically a hunter would hunt travel corridors coming from a corn field, which the deer may have a dozen trails coming from/to the corn. In the evening, he likely will hunt on the field edge with a dozen trails feeding into the corn field. In this instance, the evening hunt gives you much better odds to see more deer than the morning sit. It all depends on the food source and hunting tactics. A farm just down the road may not have crops, therefore much different hunting tactics will be required, as well as different sighting results as the deer will likely be less congregated on a non ag hunting location. MY farm is very similar to what BSK describes his farm to be, while my hunting buddy 3 miles from me has ag bottoms wrapped in steep ridges on his farm. Different tactics must be deployed to be consistently successful. If I hunt his farm the same way I hunt mine, I will not be utilizing the draw that his ag fields have and I will not see great results.

Adaptation. Agreed - We must change tactics dependent on the areas we hunt, and also to that years food crop, as it is different every year. They adapt, we adapt. The game depends on who can intercept first

 

[DMD]

Absolutely true that many variables exist. For instance, my data does not factor in how long it was between hunts in a single stand. Could it be that the longer the timeframe between hunts from that stand "resets" the area back to being less pressured? No idea. And it would take some complicated statistics to weed this information out of the data.

Really, what my data strongly suggests is that, on average, older buck sightings decline (but never fall to zero) the more times a stand is hunted in a single hunting season. Doesn't mean stands that stay hot don't exist. They do. But the majority do not.

It's really good stuff! And I appreciate you sharing it with us. I love analytical stuff!

 

[wobblegobble]

In my neck of the woods that's not the case, we can hunt the same stands all year and the deer just look at you...Doesn't seem to bother them at all, since they see and hear people all the time.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

That's fascinating. What do you believe the problem with morning hunting was?

BSK,my place is all woods located in mountains. I created a couple 1 acre food plots on each side of the property, as well as so much habitat work. I cleared around hundreds of oaks to allow full sun, girdled numerous hickories, and cut down and hinge cut numerous maples for the new sprouts to grow. I have to access this property on ATV. It's a mile ride up in the mountains just to the property line.I walk from there.I started realizing from camera data that they are actively feeding when I go in and I was consistently bumping them.I started going in around 9 to 10a.m and hunting the rest of the day and it's like everything changed.I am noticing that the bucks show up a lot more in daylight, and I learn a lot more about the bucks

 

[BSK]

BSK,my place is all woods located in mountains. I created a couple 1 acre food plots on each side of the property, as well as so much habitat work. I cleared around hundreds of oaks to allow full sun, girdled numerous hickories, and cut down and hinge cut numerous maples for the new sprouts to grow. I have to access this property on ATV. It's a mile ride up in the mountains just to the property line.I walk from there.I started realizing from camera data that they are actively feeding when I go in and I was consistently bumping them.I started going in around 9 to 10a.m and hunting the rest of the day and it's like everything changed.I am noticing that the bucks show up a lot more in daylight, and I learn a lot more about the bucks

Really interesting situation.

 

[Ski]

The whole objective is to increase odds of tagging good buck. While there are exceptions to every rule and everybody can think of variables, the nuts & bolts point that the data makes is that older bucks QUICKLY notice our presence and begin avoiding the area. The data is an average taken from 1700 hunts spanning two decades. That is substantial. Sure like anybody else I can imagine some exceptions and variables that could give me an argument to minimize the data. But really I don't want to. I want to know why & how the older bucks are so acutely conscious of their environment that they notice if I hunt a stand, even if I didn't see them while on stand. I don't want to poke holes in the data. I want to understand it.

 

[deerhunter10]

I don't want to poke holes in the data. I want to understand it.

100 percent agree

 

[DeerMan66]

BSK, I appreciate you sharing your data with us. I haven't collected the data but have personal experiences that are very similar to what your data is showing. I always look forward to hunting new stand locations. I sometimes go into areas that I know haven't been hunted that year and still hunt or sit on the ground because of the 1st time potential. I have had some success with this tactic.

 

[Bushape]

Exactly why I used to take my climber even though we had stands everywhere. Be surprised how moving a mere 100 yards will increase your odds that is if you know where to put it . In season scouting but be careful and not poke your nose to far

I'm 42 and can't make myself put my climber down. Ladder stand placement can be hit or miss, but even with a "hit" you're still educating the deer with every sit. Plenty of data here I'm sure to say my thinking is flawed as well but I'm just stubborn I guess

 

[mike243]

1 thing a lot of folks over look is the walk in or out, you bust deer out of area very much and they will move so keep that in mind if your seeing deer on the walk in or out, might have to walk a longer route some times to keep the scent down on a trail