National Deer Association says states gotta kill more does

[DoubleRidge]

If each county had its own game commission voted on by its license holders then situations like you describe could be dealt with in a much more pointed and effective, personal way.

I know its not likely to ever happen...but I love this idea!...even if it were a commission for every two or three county's.

In a similar way I like the idea of developing a Cooperative where land owners and land managers communicate and work together on wildlife management goals.
Again, I know its not likely to happen on a wide scale, but it could be a powerful tool in managing the herd and the habitat for a variety of wildlife.

 

[BSK]

I know its not likely to ever happen...but I love this idea!...even if it were a commission for every two or three county's.

In a similar way I like the idea of developing a Cooperative where land owners and land managers communicate and work together on wildlife management goals.
Again, I know its not likely to happen on a wide scale, but it could be a powerful tool in managing the herd and the habitat for a variety of wildlife.

QDM Cooperatives were an idea popularized by the QDMA and were a great idea. However, the problems arise when neighboring landowners have different goals. One only manages to protect yearlings. One protects bucks to 3 1/2. Another wants to protect bucks to maturity. One wants to bring the deer density down to 60% of capacity to maximize health/individual animal growth. Another wants to hold the population at 80% of carrying capacity to maximize deer sightings while hunting, etc.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Bucks also have a higher natural mortality rate than does.

 

[BSK]

All good deer management is site specific. However, states can't do that. They do not have the finances nor personnel to evaluate the state's deer herds property by property.

Honestly, I really feel for the state game agencies who really want to do what is right. They want to set the best possible harvest guidelines to make hunters happy. However, deer herds vary in density, health, and production across very short geographic distances. In addition, hunter desires vary dramatically from property to property. The state CANNOT set guidelines for all these situations. All they can do is set regulations that allow hunters to manage how they see fit on their own hunting property. In addition, they can educate hunters on the various types of management practices. But they can do nothing about the problem of neighboring properties with completely contradictory goals.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

QDM Cooperatives were an idea popularized by the QDMA and were a great idea. However, the problems arise when neighboring landowners have different goals. One only manages to protect yearlings. One protects bucks to 3 1/2. Another wants to protect bucks to maturity. One wants to bring the deer density down to 60% of capacity to maximize health/individual animal growth. Another wants to hold the population at 80% of carrying capacity to maximize deer sightings while hunting, etc.

You are 100% correct.

 

[BSK]

Bucks also have a higher natural mortality rate than does.

True. They also die much earlier in life (rut stress and rut related injuries) than females do. And this is why - even in an unhunted environment - adult females outnumber adult males at a ratio of about 1.2:1

 

[DoubleRidge]

QDM Cooperatives were an idea popularized by the QDMA and were a great idea. However, the problems arise when neighboring landowners have different goals. One only manages to protect yearlings. One protects bucks to 3 1/2. Another wants to protect bucks to maturity. One wants to bring the deer density down to 60% of capacity to maximize health/individual animal growth. Another wants to hold the population at 80% of carrying capacity to maximize deer sightings while hunting, etc.

But when your fortunate to have neighbors with the same or similar goals it can (or could) be a useful tool....also there are the opportunities for cost sharing, equipment rentals, bulk seed and fertilizer purchases, etc.
I know it would be rare for a large cooperative to ever work out...so many challenges. ..but the concept is appealing to me.
And one of the biggest benifits I've experienced when working with neighbors is having an open line of communication. We have two neighbors who border us with similar goals and we communicate and even share trail camera pictures...its been educational to see what bucks get photographed where and when and which bucks do not...but anyway, a large cooperative is a bit of a pipe dream...but working with neighbors and creating a smaller cooperative can have its rewards.

 

[WestTn Huntin man]

Where CWD is present, you will see a reluctance to shoot does. Does are mostly for eating and with the possibility or likelihood of a doe being positive, the desire to kill one goes down. This is especially true when deer populations are being negatively impacted by CWD. Where I hunt, I may never kill another doe.

Every Year I try to shoot a few for the Sheriffs dept. to distribute to needy families. They get tested. . It's my understanding that Bucks are more likely to Have CWD than does.

 

[TX300mag]

I'm convinced that the lack of quality deer processors left is a huge factor in this. I process my own,, but a lot of people don't.

Good point

 

[megalomaniac]

Unless someone is eating brain tissue or the spinal cord, they cannot get CWD from an infected deer. Given how long CWD has been around, and how many states it exists in, if humans were getting sick from eating deer or elk, we'd know about it by now. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that thousands of CWD deer and elk have unknowingly been consumed by humans and everything was fine.

I'd lay waste to some West TN does and eat every single scrap of the meat without hesitation.

Pretty easy to avoid brain, not so much cerebrospinal fluid (loaded with prions), esp with high shoulder shots which often disrupt the cord/ spinal canal.

Also remember the prion is in very high concentrations in lymph nodes.... be sure your butcher is getting those out from your deer completely intact with as well as the deer he processed prior to you. Pretty easy to grind up a lymph node into your burger. Unfortunately, the prion is still in the lymph channels in the meat itself (but a lower concentration than the actual lymph nodes). Plus higher concentration in gut and bone... sometimes bullet fragments get those into meat.

While spongiform encephalopathies manifest symptoms usually in 2-4 years in cervids (CWD) and cattle (BSE), it's only a 6 months in minks. But the problem is... the human variant can take 10-30 years to manifest symptoms from time of infection.

So, while there are no PROVEN zoonotic cases of transmission from deer to humans, it is near impossible to determine causation of human JCD in most cases.

I'm still going to eat the heck out of cervids, but depending on whether they came from a CWD endemic area or not, I will wait for a negative test result first, and I'm still careful to ensure there is minimal contamination of CNS, lymph, GI, and bone in my meat.

 

[Doskil]

WHAT? I hope you're kidding.

I've seen herds decimated by hunter over-harvest.

I was being sarcastic.

It doesn't show up well online

Not a fan of liberal doe seasons anymore even for CWD reasons

 

[agelessssone]

Since I don't process my deer, and pay $95 per deer, I want the biggest deer for my bucks, meaning killing 3.5 year old bucks first. If I waited for a 4.5 year old buck, Id probably go hungry. After getting the biggest bodied bucks I can, then I'll take the biggest mama doe for me and one for my neighbor.

 

[348Winchester]

True. They also die much earlier in life (rut stress and rut related injuries) than females do. And this is why - even in an unhunted environment - adult females outnumber adult males at a ratio of about 1.2:1

Is that also why dudes die before chicks in the human race?

Or is it simply that after many years of listening to the complaining, nagging, and bitching we realize the only solace we'll get is in the grave?

 

[BSK]

But when your fortunate to have neighbors with the same or similar goals it can (or could) be a useful tool....also there are the opportunities for cost sharing, equipment rentals, bulk seed and fertilizer purchases, etc.
I know it would be rare for a large cooperative to ever work out...so many challenges. ..but the concept is appealing to me.
And one of the biggest benifits I've experienced when working with neighbors is having an open line of communication. We have two neighbors who border us with similar goals and we communicate and even share trail camera pictures...its been educational to see what bucks get photographed where and when and which bucks do not...but anyway, a large cooperative is a bit of a pipe dream...but working with neighbors and creating a smaller cooperative can have its rewards.

Completely agree. And some cooperation between neighbors is better than none.

 

[BSK]

So, while there are no PROVEN zoonotic cases of transmission from deer to humans, it is near impossible to determine causation of human JCD in most cases.

At least with transmission of Mad Cow Disease (MCD) to humans, it was possible to determine because the prion was different than the naturally occurring form (CJDv versus CJD).

 

[BSK]

Is that also why dudes die before chicks in the human race?

Or is it simply that after many years of listening to the complaining, nagging, and bitching we realize the only solace we'll get is in the grave?

Both!

Actually, with humans, it's more related to male job and lifestyle choices.

 

[dogsled]

During the Depression years many herds were pretty much wiped out. I think the mindset of saving does to restore the herd carried over during those years.Generations of Hunters taught not to shoot Does to build the herds.

Yep. My dad was absolutely against killing does and a lot of hunters here still feel the same way. I have counted over 15 in one group where I hunt. I try to harvest one a year to give away or donate. Since the processor that I use charges a flat rate per deer, I shoot bucks for my use as it is more economical.

 

[Doskil]

Yep. My dad was absolutely against killing does and a lot of hunters here still feel the same way. I have counted over 15 in one group where I hunt. I try to harvest one a year to give away or donate. Since the processor that I use charges a flat rate per deer, I shoot bucks for my use as it is more economical.

15 does in a group does not mean you are overpopulated or need to kill any

Its amazing how many hunters have bought into the you gotta kill does mentality pushed by biologists, academics and tv hunters for years.


At least in Wisconsin some folks are pushing back and they are proposing to close doe harvests completely for a few years in some of the counties there to protect their deer population.

I bet Lindsay Thomas Jr is not liking that. Just a guess.

Assembly OKs suspending doe hunting in northern Wisconsin, hiking non-resident outdoor license fees

The two bills must be approved by the Senate and signed by the governor to become law.

madison.com

 

[Antler Daddy]

3 a day doe limits in Unit L with a bunch of small farms everywhere....does not take too long before the deer disappear.

 

[Doskil]

I get shooting down deer to keep depredations on farms growing crops to a minimum or killing off deer in an area because they are interfering with a farmer's livelihood.

I doubt you are going to see west Tennessee private lands have their antlerless seasons reduced.

Farmers would not allow it

Most liberal doe seasons aren't about overpopulated deer herds.

They are about keeping depredations down on farms and pacifying farmers.

South Carolina even says they issue extra doe tags to keep deer shot down to prevent problems to farmers.

I was very surprised North Carolina ended their unlimited antlerless permit program a few years ago. Farming is a big deal in eastern NC