Mature buck poll

[Bgoodman30]

All day long. I LOVE to kill the old bucks noone else wants. If it's mature and less than 120in, it's a cull on my places.

Now same mature buck and 125in, I'm passing. Save that for someone else for what might be their biggest buck ever.

Problem I have is my neighbors high grade all the 110in 2.5yos 130in 3.5yos we pass up, so the only deer hitting maturity are the ones at the bottom end of the gene pool. We have the genetics to produce 150 to 170in deer... but in reality our area realizes a bazillion 130 class deer. Most of those are 2.5 and 3.5yos.

This is the right management practice IMHO but don't say the "C" word some folks might get triggered...!

 

[BigCityBubba]

If its truly a fully mature buck and it has inferior antlers, will it ever not have inferior antlers?

 

[knightrider]

This is the right management practice IMHO but don't say the "C" word some folks might get triggered...!

Ok i will take on for the team, no such thing as a cull!!!!

 

[deerhunter10]

I've seen 3 mature bucks this year. First was Oct 8th. 8 pt,130"+- 6.5 year old deer. I gave him a pass because I only get 1 buck in Ky (1 buck limit works). Oct 30th I passed up a 4.5 year old 8 pt that would be lucky to hit 105". Nov 22nd I killed a 129" 11 pt. I had zero history with that deer but I believe he was 5.5. If I had to do it all over again I would have shot the 6.5 8 pt in early Oct. I have history with him and I would've been just as proud of not a little more.

If I was in TN with a 2 buck limit then I would hunt age mostly.
[/QUOTE
Even with 2 tags it gets tricky. Obviously not as tricky as Kentucky with just 1 but still a little tricky. You kill one in October of the first week of November. I like to hunt personally so being picky is the way I usually get to hunt more. A few years ago I was tagged out within 4 days at the beginning of November. Happy but still kind of sucks. Wait all year to hunt and hunt 4 days. That's just me.

 

[Ski]

We have the genetics to produce 150 to 170in deer... but in reality our area realizes a bazillion 130 class deer. Most of those are 2.5 and 3.5yos.

That's astonishing to me. I can't be an hour away and I've not seen a 130" deer in person or on camera in the 8yrs I've been hunting here. I've killed several 4yr & 5yr old deer but the biggest ones barely surpass 120".

I've got a very productive property right in the big buck belt of southern Ohio and I don't see a lot of 130" 3yr olds, although I do see them in the 140's-150's on occasion. But never have I seen a 130" 2yr old. Now by the time they hit 4 & 5 years old they could be anything from 130" to well over 200", most in the 150's-170's. There's at least one 200 incher taken every season in that county, and a large handful of booners. But I've never had a 2.5yr old as big as big as the one BSK posted the other day.

I just don't get it. It would seem if bucks can get that big at such young age here in TN then why aren't we seeing the giants in numbers seen in the midwest? And how can I hunt an hour away from where you're at and see a completely different scale of animal? I don't doubt what you see. I see those bucks you mention whenever I go by the processor in Wartrace. There'll be a bunch of bucks like what I see, but there are always a few big ones that look like they must have come from Kansas. Same age class. Same species. But completely different animals.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Ok i will take on for the team, no such thing as a cull!!!!

How so ?

 

[knightrider]

How so ?

How? Its just justification to kill a deer that make not one iota of difference in a wild heard. You wanna kill it fine kill it but don't undercut him by labeling it a "cull" "getting bad genes out the herd" blah blah blah

 

[Ski]

Ok i will take on for the team, no such thing as a cull!!!!

Now you've done it. You may as well have said Beetlejuice three times.

In all seriousness, I think a cull is just that, an underachieving MATURE buck. It's not a trophy. It's not the animal you're trying to manage your property for. You've given it all the life it needs to express what it can be, and trophy antlers it is not. But it is a big adult deer taking up space and resources that a more promising buck could be using. So he's a cull.

The only problem I have with people killing "cull" bucks is that they use that word as an excuse to kill younger bucks. There's absolutely nothing wrong with killing a young buck but own it and be happy with it. Don't minimize & dismiss it as a cull, because that's not what it is. It's buck you wanted to kill or else you wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Own it.

On the same token, there's nothing wrong with killing an actual cull and calling it that. I kill one every now & then and am thrilled with it. I enjoy the hunt. I enjoy the challenge. I enjoy the meat. And I enjoy the antlers. Every cull I've ever killed gets hung with the other old bucks I've killed or I use the antlers in some sort of craft. More than one thing can be true at the same time. It's not a this or that world and nobody is ever going to put me in that position. I want it all so I get it all. That's the beauty of hunting. So long as we stay within the confines of the law we are free to set our own standards and it's nobody else's business.

 

[Ski]

How? Its just justification to kill a deer that make not one iota of difference in a wild heard. You wanna kill it fine kill it but don't undercut him by labeling it a "cull" "getting bad genes out the herd" blah blah blah

I agree completely except that getting rid of an actual "cull" frees up space and resources for another deer. If you own a property and are managing it to increase your odds of tagging a trophy animal, then an old mature buck with little antlers is directly working against you. He's eating the food from your plots and taking up prime bedding, but he's never going to have the big rack you're working towards. Killing him to make room for hopefully a more promising buck, by the very definition is culling him. That makes him a cull. Like I said, that doesn't minimize him nor does it detract from the accomplishment of hunting & killing a mature buck. Both things can be true simultaneously.

 

[Bgoodman30]

How? Its just justification to kill a deer that make not one iota of difference in a wild heard. You wanna kill it fine kill it but don't undercut him by labeling it a "cull" "getting bad genes out the herd" blah blah blah

Of course he makes a difference it takes up territory, resources etc etc there are only so many mature deer that can occupy a space..

Don't recall him mentioning one thing about genes that was you...

 

[knightrider]

Of course he makes a difference it takes up territory, resources etc etc there are only so many mature deer that can occupy a space..

Don't recall him mentioning one thing about genes that was you...

Thats just a phrase you hear thrown around all the time when people start making excuses for shooting inferior to everyone else's standards, wasn't implying he mentioned sorry if came off that way. I completely understand what you and ski are saying and agree, it just bothers me when all the internet and tv heroes start crying cull when it was obviously just a deer they wanted to shoot but dont wont to own it. In my neck of the woods with zero ag, thousands of acres of mountainous forest shooting "culls" really changes nothing as far as heard health, but they sure are fun to hunt and can take a ride in my truck anytime

 

[megalomaniac]

That's astonishing to me. I can't be an hour away and I've not seen a 130" deer in person or on camera in the 8yrs I've been hunting here. I've killed several 4yr & 5yr old deer but the biggest ones barely surpass 120".

I've got a very productive property right in the big buck belt of southern Ohio and I don't see a lot of 130" 3yr olds, although I do see them in the 140's-150's on occasion. But never have I seen a 130" 2yr old. Now by the time they hit 4 & 5 years old they could be anything from 130" to well over 200", most in the 150's-170's. There's at least one 200 incher taken every season in that county, and a large handful of booners. But I've never had a 2.5yr old as big as big as the one BSK posted the other day.

I just don't get it. It would seem if bucks can get that big at such young age here in TN then why aren't we seeing the giants in numbers seen in the midwest? And how can I hunt an hour away from where you're at and see a completely different scale of animal? I don't doubt what you see. I see those bucks you mention whenever I go by the processor in Wartrace. There'll be a bunch of bucks like what I see, but there are always a few big ones that look like they must have come from Kansas. Same age class. Same species. But completely different animals.

yes, it is crazy how there are absolute 'pockets' 20-30sq miles that will have superior genetics for larger scoring antlers. Now don't get me wrong... I'm not saying my place is amazing. BUT, on average, my place will average bucks with about 7-10 more inches of antler per age class than surrounding areas. And there are other pockets in TN that will average 15-20 inches more per age class than surrounding areas.

And I'm not saying my 2.5yo's are averaging 130in, nor am i saying my 3.5y/o are in the 140's have the potential to produce the giants at maturity. I just have a larger sample size than most due to a higher deer density per square mile than most TN properties due to aggressive habitat management. So I get a much larger sample size per age class, so I'm going to see more of the bucks in the top 5% of the gene pool... that tiny 5% are the ones that will become 160 in deer at maturity. But unfortunately, the top 5% of the gene pool is nearly universally removed at 2.5 and 3.5 years of age when they score 120 (2.5y/o) to 140 (3.5yo) and never get a chance to grow up to express their genetic potential.

In the past 10 years, we have only had 2 bucks at the top end of the gene pool survive our neighbors to reach maturity. ONLY TWO!!!!! The hunting pressure around me is just that intense, combined with the number of hunters per property. It is not unusual for there to be 12 to 15 neighbors on stand all around me on any given rifle weekend.

But the odd thing is... none of the neighbors will shoot the 4.5 yo and 5.5 yo 100 in deer. Don't want to 'waste' a tag. So the bottom end of the gene pool either dies from old age, or I kill them for sausage. Neighbors would much rather shoot two 150lb 120in 2.5yo than two 200lb 100 in 5.5 y/os

 

[Ski]

In the past 10 years, we have only had 2 bucks at the top end of the gene pool survive our neighbors to reach maturity. ONLY TWO!!!!! The hunting pressure around me is just that intense, combined with the number of hunters per property. It is not unusual for there to be 12 to 15 neighbors on stand all around me on any given rifle weekend.

But the odd thing is... none of the neighbors will shoot the 4.5 yo and 5.5 yo 100 in deer. Don't want to 'waste' a tag. So the bottom end of the gene pool either dies from old age, or I kill them for sausage. Neighbors would much rather shoot two 150lb 120in 2.5yo than two 200lb 100 in 5.5 y/os

That's gotta be frustrating. I'm lucky to not have heavy pressured deer. They can usually get to old age. They just don't get big. Probably why there's not much pressure lol

 

[Tennessee Lead]

I voted depends on situation. I'm holding 1 tag for a deer of a lifetime for me personally. In 30 years I've never had an opportunity for one like him and by had I have had at 30 yards with a gun and screwed it up. How does that happen in I know but it does. Praying for a second chance, but any other year I would shoot a mature buck on sight!

 

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

Bang flop I'm a meat eater. Always have been always will be.

 

[bowtechgump]

It all comes back to remembering when we fell asleep the night before rifle season, or juvenile (when we were young), bow season knowing, or telling everyone, that our biggest bucks will not be out in the daylight?

We sometimes let things happen hoping for more.....but the buck below was a wonderful one to watch grow. Sometimes it is not about the killing but the opportunity to see what you can do to honestly be a part of their world.

I look forward to the day that we once again are able to gather around the tailgate for a doe like we do for those who want a big buck. They are all amazing animals and they each have their own personal value to whoever is able to be a part of it.

 

[megalomaniac]

Some of you may remember my 2.5yo 'do not kill' buck from earlier this year.

Well, yup, neighbors killed him this week. I told them my 16yo daughter passed him up

 

[knightrider]

Some of you may remember my 2.5yo 'do not kill' buck from earlier this year.

Well, yup, neighbors killed him this week. I told them my 16yo daughter passed him up

I bet they are glad she did not everyone has the same goal

 

[Ski]

Some of you may remember my 2.5yo 'do not kill' buck from earlier this year.

Well, yup, neighbors killed him this week. I told them my 16yo daughter passed him up

If that deer was 2.5 he was going to be monster in a couple years.

 

[megalomaniac]

If that deer was 2.5 he was going to be monster in a couple years.

He was, and he would have been. Honestly, he wasn't as big as he looks in the pic. Solid 130in necause of tine lenght and number of points, but he would be lucky to break 140lbs. I took a picture of him with my phone running does 50y away from me end of Nov. He wasn't much bigger than the doe he was chasing.