Looking for buck high-grading

[BSK]

TheLBLman and I have written quite a bit about buck high-grading, where the largest antlered middle-aged bucks get killed by hunters, leaving only the smaller-antlered middle-aged bucks to survive to maturity. One of the ways I look for that in data is to look at the percent of 3 1/2 and mature (4 1/2+) bucks by antler point counts, especially looking for the percent of these age-class bucks with 9 or more points, as well as 6 or fewer points. When the percent of bucks in these age-classes with 9 or more points begins to fall, and the percent with 6 or fewer points begins to climb, high-grading is usually the culprit (as long as nutrition hasn't declined dramatically).

I was breezing through the data from my own property, and the percent of 3 1/2 and 4 1/2+ year-old bucks with 9 or more points looked good (see first graph below). A dip in these numbers occurred around 2017, but since then, the numbers aren't bad at all. For the region, 50+% of mature bucks with 9 or more points is excellent.

However, then I looked at the percent of those age bucks with 6 or fewer points (second graph below). Uh oh... Any time the percent of 4 1/2+ year-old bucks with 6 or fewer points is HIGHER than that for 3 1/2 year-old bucks, something is up. Something is happening between 3 1/2 and 4 1/2+ that is increasing the percent of mature bucks with 6 or fewer points. The graph indicates two period this occurred: 2009-2012 and 2015-2017. Is this high-grading? Probably. What is more worrying is the steady increase in percentage of 3 1/2 year-olds that have 6 or fewer points 2016 onwards, which is continuing to increase. Now the ultimate result - reduced high point count mature bucks - is not being seen. We are peaking in 9 or more point mature bucks. But the 6 or fewer data is troubling and a harbinger of a potential problem.

 

[Ski]

Your graphs show percentages but not actual numbers. How many mature bucks are you actually seeing with 6pt or less frames? And are you including broken racks and injury induced deformities? Or true frames?

Aside from bucks with tines broken off or weird racks due to prior injury, I have never seen a 6pt or less mature buck on the hoof. I've only seen the occasional 6pt mature buck killed by other hunters, never in person. To me they seem rarer than a true 12pt.

 

[TheLBLman]

I think there may be several evolving dynamics coming into play, and as you so often say yourself, the circumstances are often site specific.

In your case, I believe you have one group of neighboring hunters doing significantly more deer hunting. This will increase antler high-grading for "your" bucks (which are perhaps really more "theirs" than "yours").

But then, you may have neighbors on your other sides doing progressively less deer hunting, and "less" QDM-type antler restrictions than say a decade ago. In fact, I will argue that deer hunting statewide has been steadily declining for over a decade, even though in a minority of areas, the number of hunters and their time afield has been increasing annually.

As much as I love true QDM, it typically leads to big increases in antler high-grading.
But now, we may be seeing "less" QDM type antler restrictions in large areas, even though many hunters are more willing to pass up yearling bucks, and more eager to shoot female deer (at least as compared to over 20 years ago).

But in short, more deer hunting generally means more antler high-grading;
while less deer hunting generally means less antler high-grading.

The dynamics are constantly changing & evolving.
I'm sure you'll figure more out, but then, things will change & evolve some more

 

[backyardtndeer]

even though in a minority of areas, the number of hunters and their time afield has been increasing annually.

This has been the case around us. Farm beside us had not been being hunted that I was aware of until last year. End of this last season, I found a climber about 15 yards from my line and only about 20 from one of my food plots. That climber set on the tree is looking at my property.

The other farm behind us also had new pressure right on top of us last year. Someone setup a popup ground blind just off our property line the day after I killed a deer from a stand I have had on my side for over 25 years. I believe they heard me shoot and moved in on me. They actually have ag crops on the other end of their property and have to come nearly a mile through the bottom to get in behind me. That's ok, opening morning of rifle deer were blowing at their blind and I killed a mature 8 point.

We have seemed to have more hunters and pressure around us the past 5 years or so, it definitely doesn't help age structure. We rarely see 3.5 and 4.5 year old with more than 8 points here, but every so often we get one around.

 

[TheLBLman]

We have seemed to have more hunters and pressure around us the past 5 years or so, it definitely doesn't help age structure.

However, much of the increase in hunters (and their "pressure"), particularly of the past 5 years, is coming from 25 to 45-yr-old men & women who had never before been hunting. This sub-set of hunters has been drawn into hunting more for the purpose of procuring free-range organic food, than for the purpose of "selecting" for better antlers.

Therefore they are more likely to simply kill the first legal deer they can, most often a yearling deer, regardless of sex. Their style of hunting results in less antler high grading than the typical hunting of most other deer hunters today.

So while us old "sport" hunters are dying out, these new younger "meat" hunters are somewhat replacing us. Another big difference in their style is they will mainly hunt where it's most convenient, most often from their back porches, and/or within a short distance of their homes.

And unfortunately to the greedy "middle men" pushing expensive deer hunting leases, these new hunters aren't willing to pay for a lease, as they have plenty of cheap, convenient opportunities to kill the deer they want for food. They are simply not looking for a trophy buck, or even a buck at all.

My prediction remains for lease prices nationwide to trend lower, mainly as the older more "avid" deer hunters die out, and are then only partially replaced, but replaced with hunters more interested in the organic meat than the hunting.

We rarely see 3.5 and 4.5 year old with more than 8 points here, but every so often we get one around.

Actually, in most areas of Tennessee, most mature bucks should be only mainframe 8-pointers. But, in the absence of high-grading, there should be a fair representation of mainframe 9-plus-point bucks.

As to the majority of those few mature bucks which do have more than 10 points, most points beyond 10 will tend to be "non-typical" or "sticker" type points, often which don't evolve until a particular buck is fully mature. Even then, many fully mature bucks will never grow a non-typical "point" and remain only mainframe 8-pointers.

The one buck I personally considered my overall best TN "trophy" buck was believed to be 6 1/2 years old. Depending on how one defines "points", he had up to 21 points, but 13 were at least an inch in length. I called him a 13-pointer, but everyone would look and say, "He's got a lot more points than that!" (Several of his points were over 1/2" but less than 1".)

But he was actually only a mainframe 9-pointer (4 x 5), just had grown many non-typical tines in his last year or two of life. I suspect he had been a "clean" mainframe 9-pointer when he was 3 1/2, and was just lucky to have survived to maturity.

 

[BSK]

Your graphs show percentages but not actual numbers. How many mature bucks are you actually seeing with 6pt or less frames? And are you including broken racks and injury induced deformities? Or true frames?

It does include injury-induced abnormal antlers, however, the number of those is very few. We generally catch most bucks before they break their rack around the rut, hence they are recorded with what they started with antler-wise, not what they end-up with at the end of the rut.

 

[BSK]

Aside from bucks with tines broken off or weird racks due to prior injury, I have never seen a 6pt or less mature buck on the hoof. I've only seen the occasional 6pt mature buck killed by other hunters, never in person. To me they seem rarer than a true 12pt.

Have a client that has been high-grading for so long, 25% of their mature bucks had 6 or fewer points. And these were almost all true 6-pointers. We put rules in place to reduce high-grading, and over 4 years the percentage of mature bucks with 6 or fewer points dropped to zero.

 

[BSK]

I think there may be several evolving dynamics coming into play, and as you so often say yourself, the circumstances are often site specific.

In your case, I believe you have one group of neighboring hunters doing significantly more deer hunting. This will increase antler high-grading for "your" bucks (which are perhaps really more "theirs" than "yours").

But then, you may have neighbors on your other sides doing progressively less deer hunting, and "less" QDM-type antler restrictions than say a decade ago. In fact, I will argue that deer hunting statewide has been steadily declining for over a decade, even though in a minority of areas, the number of hunters and their time afield has been increasing annually.

As much as I love true QDM, it typically leads to big increases in antler high-grading.
But now, we may be seeing "less" QDM type antler restrictions in large areas, even though many hunters are more willing to pass up yearling bucks, and more eager to shoot female deer (at least as compared to over 20 years ago).

But in short, more deer hunting generally means more antler high-grading;
while less deer hunting generally means less antler high-grading.

The dynamics are constantly changing & evolving.
I'm sure you'll figure more out, but then, things will change & evolve some more

The one that worries me is the rising percentage of 3 1/2s with 6 or fewer points. That could be us (in combination with neighbors). Most of the hunters on place will gladly shoot a "good" 2 1/2, and they do so with regularity. And these "good" 2 1/2s are well above average for their age (100-120 gross). That may be playing a role in the increase in <=6 point 3 1/2s. However, the trend for mature bucks with 9+ points looks good.

 

[Ski]

Have a client that has been high-grading for so long, 25% of their mature bucks had 6 or fewer points. And these were almost all true 6-pointers. We put rules in place to reduce high-grading, and over 4 years the percentage of mature bucks with 6 or fewer points dropped to zero.

That seems so crazy and alien to me. I always thought a mature 6pt frame to be an oddball. In large I'd guess 50% of mature bucks I encounter are 8pt frames. 30% are 10pt frames. The remaining 20% are 9pts, 12pts, and weirdos. Heck I've even seen 3 double main beam bucks personally, and know several hunters who've killed one. By comparison I only personally know one hunter who's killed a mature mainframe 6pt and it had a 21" inside spread. Huge rack. The pictures I've seen of others were all big racks as well.

What did your client's 6pt bucks look like? Were they big racks like is usual with older deer?

 

[Ski]

The one that worries me is the rising percentage of 3 1/2s with 6 or fewer points. That could be us (in combination with neighbors). Most of the hunters on place will gladly shoot a "good" 2 1/2, and they do so with regularity. And these "good" 2 1/2s are well above average for their age (100-120 gross). That may be playing a role in the increase in <=6 point 3 1/2s. However, the trend for mature bucks with 9+ points looks good.

120" is an enormous rack for a young 2.5yr old. Here's one on my place with a "normal" 80" 2.5yr old beside him. The rack looks too big for his body. Would be hard to expect neighbors to pass on him if given the chance. Unfortunately this guy disappeared before October, and that was 2yrs ago. On one hand I love seeing deer like that. But on the other I cringe because I know the odds are heavy against them.

 

[BSK]

What did your client's 6pt bucks look like? Were they big racks like is usual with older deer?

Yup, huge 6-pointers.

They had such strong high-grading because they were so efficient at taking out the top-end 3 1/2s. They were annually killing all the best 3 1/2s.

 

[BSK]

120" is an enormous rack for a young 2.5yr old. Here's one on my place with a "normal" 80" 2.5yr old beside him. The rack looks too big for his body. Would be hard to expect neighbors to pass on him if given the chance. Unfortunately this guy disappeared before October, and that was 2yrs ago. On one hand I love seeing deer like that. But on the other I cringe because I know the odds are heavy against them.

Exactly. Our average 2 1/2 is only 85 gross. Yet hunters on my place rarely kill one of that size. Most are 95 to 115. Basically, the upper half take a beating. The lower half are the ones that live to 3 1/2.

 

[BSK]

Although our average 2 1/2 is only 85 gross, and around 30% of our 2 1/2s have 6 or fewer points, occasionally, we see some really amazing 2 1/2s. A couple below:

 

[Ski]

Those are great bucks! Looks like they have similar genetics for that rack shape and multiple tines. Hard to imagine a crop of racks with 6 points and fewer. Most of the bucks in my area have 8pts by 2.5yrs and still have only 8pts in old age. A few are 10pts. Most are what they're going to be by 2.5. They get bigger but racks stay pretty much same shape and tines count. As LBL pointed out the older bucks often sprout extra odd points but their frame stays pretty consistent.

 

[BSK]

Although we're all ridge-and-hollow hardwoods, we're surrounded by thousands of acres of bottomland soybeans and corn, so we can grow some good bucks. And then we have some bottom end. I prime example is the buck below. First picture is him at 2 1/2. The second picture is him at 3 1/2. Only got bigger in over-all dimensions but added little in points.

 

[BSK]

Those are great bucks! Looks like they have similar genetics for that rack shape and multiple tines. Hard to imagine a crop of racks with 6 points and fewer. Most of the bucks in my area have 8pts by 2.5yrs and still have only 8pts in old age. A few are 10pts. Most are what they're going to be by 2.5. They get bigger but racks stay pretty much same shape and tines count. As LBL pointed out the older bucks often sprout extra odd points but their frame stays pretty consistent.

I have age and antler-point data from several properties in my area. A good number for 9-points or greater antlers is 50% for mature bucks, 30% for 3 1/2 year-old bucks.

 

[BSK]

Your graphs show percentages but not actual numbers. How many mature bucks are you actually seeing with 6pt or less frames?

In this data set, which begins in 2008, 5 of 47 mature bucks had 6 points or less (10.6%), including one giant spike.

 

[BSK]

Satan, the mature giant spike from last year. And he was a real bully too! Tried desperately to kill him, but no go. He was also a spike at 3 1/2. Definitely a product of pedicle damage to both pedicles.

 

[megalomaniac]

'you can't affect genetics in a free ranging herd'....

I subscribed to this theory, but am starting to doubt it's veracity...

After 10 years of neighbors shooting everything over 125in and passing everything under 125in, we are in a situation where the vast majority of our mature bucks are sub par (culls). BUT, we are starting to see declining estimated antler scores in our younger bucks past 2 years.... so while high grading is the main culprit, I'm actually starting to think we may actually be negatively affecting genetics for higher scoring antlers.

 

[BSK]

'you can't affect genetics in a free ranging herd'....

I subscribed to this theory, but am starting to doubt it's veracity...

After 10 years of neighbors shooting everything over 125in and passing everything under 125in, we are in a situation where the vast majority of our mature bucks are sub par (culls). BUT, we are starting to see declining estimated antler scores in our younger bucks past 2 years.... so while high grading is the main culprit, I'm actually starting to think we may actually be negatively affecting genetics for higher scoring antlers.

Any chance the decline in younger bucks is density dependent, or social pressure driven?