Is it luck or skill?

[fairchaser]

I hunt a property namely Ames Plantation that has a mature age structure for bucks due to its harvest restrictions. This is actually a great experiment to answer this question. There are a handful of hunters who regularly kill mature bucks. They aren't just consistently lucky. One of the most important factors in their success is familiarity with the property. Some have decades of familiarity. Secondly, they have learned how to bring their A game. Specifically, they have learned how the behavior of mature bucks differs from the general population and how to take advantage of it. Third, they commit hundreds of hours to scouting and hunting. And last, they are excellent killers. They usually get the job done.

If success was purely luck, then success would be based on hunting hours alone. More hours equals more sightings of mature bucks which equals more shot opportunities. Yet, some hunters have more success per hours of hunting than others.

They may depend on a little luck but usually they make their own.

 

[Rackseeker]

I would rather be lucky as good any day. But to kill mature bucks on a regular basis, being in the woods alot and knowing what to look for, esp. on public land is the key. So skill is involved also.

 

[catman529]

All of us know hunters who don't seem to be highly skilled and yet seem to be in the right place at the right time and others who are highly skilled but never seem to get one.

are you really highly skilled if you can't ever seem to get one? Maybe following the book and taking all the precautions and hunting where you're "supposed" to hunt isn't actually skill. Maybe those who just seem to get one every year, have figured out the deer better than deer hunting. A lot of people get into a groove where you have to do A B or C in X Y or Z conditions to have a good chance at a deer. Maybe it's not always that way...

I haven't figured out killing mature bucks yet. I do see them occasionally on unpressured private land. Rarely ever on public land, but I know they are there. I've gotten good at killing does and seeing deer most times out, but I am far from being skilled in hunting mature bucks.


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[Rockhound]

You have to have the skill to put yourself in the right spot intentionally, you have to be lucky to be there at the right time

 

[Ahuntin1]

When talking about 'skill', remember the difference between knowledge and wisdom. I am sure that a lot of guys 'know' how to kill a mature buck but few are wise enough to pull off the feat on a regular basis. Some are not able/willing to put in the true effort to be consistently successful. Some choke at the opportunity. Some guys put as much effort into making sure they are hunting the right property as the effort expended actually hunting. On top of all of the knowledge and skill, there is a very unscientific art to killing mature bucks successfully. I think it is the successful combination of all parts that makes a hunter able to consistently kill mature bucks.

 

[GRIT]

You got to have the right land and enough land to let them grow.Almost any hunter could kill a good buck if they had some of the land that these other hunters are lucky enough to be hunting on.
You take someone with 600 acres to hunt on in a good location.
And then take someone that's hunting 20 acres.
Now who has the best odds of killing a good buck every year.

 

[Mike Belt]

By mature I'm using a minimum age of 4.5 years old and the number 1 criteria of being able to kill them is to have them in the first place. The only way I know of to assure this is to not shoot them before they're mature. There is no skill involved in that other than being able to age on the hoof. That places trigger restraint at the very beginning. Tied for that spot or at least a very close second is "mindset". You have to know before hand your goal and if it's to kill a mature buck you don't settle for anything less. This often leads to unfilled tags at the end of the season but that's the price of admission. Both of these, availability and mindset, preclude luck or skill.

There are those that have a knack for walking away smelling like a rose no matter what kind of pile they step in. Luck or skill? I call that inadvertent luck; not really focused on a goal but prepared (knowingly or not) for it to happen. Luck can only go so far. That's where skill takes over. Knowing your quarry, the quirks individuals might have, the terrain and how it influences movement, and the ability of not only of knowing when to invade that territory, but doing so without being detected; all are a part of that package. Time spent in the woods has not so much to do with skill but rather dedication to being there. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it may even be detrimental.

Personally, I could kill at least 1 mature buck every year. I don't because I'm picky. I want a mature buck WITH a set of antlers that impresses me. More often than not the two don't go together... and that's probably the downfall of most hunters looking to kill a mature buck. The first impressive buck they see carrying 120-130" of antler gets shot regardless of age. Killing mature bucks is like a game of presumption. I always presume those 2.5 or 3.5 year old bucks in that size range will be just the one I'm looking for by the time they reach 4.5. There's no guaranteeing they will; only a guarantee that they won't if I shoot them now. So, going back to where I started and regardless of skill or luck, you have to have them in order to hunt them and you have to have the mindset to do.

 

[tree_ghost]

I think there are too many variables to make a determination between the two...let's have an example.

1. take hunter #1 who has access to 1,000 acres of un pressured private ground with ag crops. This hunter only hunts one week a year, the rut, and like to watch the ag fields from a shooting house. This hunter is carrying a high powered rifle with top end optics. This hunter manages to kill a mature buck every other year.

2. Now take hunter #2 who only has access to the local WMA with 2,000 acres. This hunter is diligent in off season scouting, and hunts 30+ days a season. He uses traditional archery gear. From journal logs this hunter averages seeing 4 deer a season and kills a couple nice does a year and a has killed 2 mature bucks in his life.

Who's the better hunter....?
Hard to answer a question where your comparing apples to oranges...




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[WRbowhunter]

All of the above. You need skill to put yourself in a position to kill a mature buck and luck for the moon and stars to line up for it to happen. Started thinking about my seasons. I usually get a mature buck ( in my case 3 1/2 years or older) within 30 yards 1 or 2 times a year. Then when I do a lot of times the buck turns the wrong way, stops behinds a tree or something else happens that I do not get a clean Archery shot. I do think if I hunted a little different I might increase my sightings to 3 or 4 times per year. Sometimes its hard to break habits but I'm working on it. I could also hunt with a different weapon besides bow hunting on public land all Season. I will admit though my season does not revolve around killing Mature bucks as it equates to Successful vs Unsuccessful year.

 

[megalomaniac]

You got to have the right land and enough land to let them grow.Almost any hunter could kill a good buck if they had some of the land that these other hunters are lucky enough to be hunting on.
You take someone with 600 acres to hunt on in a good location.
And then take someone that's hunting 20 acres.
Now who has the best odds of killing a good buck every year.

Agree mostly...

but if the hunter on 600 acres (which is nothing when it comes to managing for deer) has 10 other people shooting brown is down, and the neighbors are shooting brown is down, there's virtually no chance at a mature buck; while if the hunter on 20 acres is surrounded by a couple thousand acres where deer are managed for age can limit out on mature bucks every year. I know I'd pick the 20 acres to hunt in that scenario every single time.

you have to remember... you need a couple thousand contiguous acres to have a chance of a deer staying on a particular property. Less than that and you are relying on neighbors to pass immature deer or neighbors that do not hunt.

 

[102]

In light of the new world record nontypical killed in Tennessee, I start thinking about the age old question when it comes to killing mature bucks. Is it luck or skill and I would venture it takes both. Certainly a new world record takes a whole lot of luck like winning the power ball twice in a row. But what about consistently putting down 4.5 year old bucks? And if you say mostly skill, then is the skill primarily in stand selection or execution or something else.

"consistently putting down 4.5 year bucks"?

What do you mean by "consistently"?
Every year? For 3 years in a row?

Every other year?

And also let's break this down into weapon type on a BROAD basis...gun (assuming ANY firearm or bow even crossbow)

May I include 4.5 year old spikes or 6 points or how about 4.5 and 5.5 PLUS bucks who have ZERO antlers??? (shed horns?)

Also, and this is the BIG question, are these 4.5 year old bucks on PRIVATE low to moderate hunting pressure land or highly pressured public land???

Answer these questions and I will answer yours, VERY accurately!!!

 

[102]

Also, IMO, there are TWO basic groups of big antlered/bodied, mature buck hunters.

1-those who actually know of and target a particular buck (or more) and pass all other deer until that particular buck shows up for the kill.

2-those who target a particular class (usually antler or body size) of buck and wait for that class of animal to show up.

#1 is not NEARLY as difficult to kill on large tracts of private tightly controlled land where pressure is minimal and these "target" bucks occur in huntable numbers.

#2 is extremely difficult to kill with regularity in high pressured public land, if for no other reason because of the fact that we seldom know from one hunt to the next where any animal has gone or who else may have killed it. And in high pressure areas there may be several hunters hunting the same deer you are, but don't even know it!

Harder still would be to kill either animal 1 or 2 at close quarters with a bow, rather than at long distances with a rifle.

 

[cozy23]

Y'all need to check out John Eberhart. Read his books and then determine if it's luck or skill.

He's a forum member on Saddle Hunter and provides very detailed stories on his kills.

One can learn a lot from reading just one of his kill stories.

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[bluball]

Kill one-luck
Kill one every year-skill


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Skill,or good hunting spot,low pressure[emoji3]

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[mathews338]

It takes a little of both. The right land is the number 1 factor imo. The size of the property doesn't matter, what's going on in and around it does. Private land needs to be managed for mature bucks, more management = more mature bucks= better odds of killing one. Public needs to be low pressure, I have had success killing a few mature bucks on public land but it was land that was hard to get to therefore less pressure.

other factors imo are - how the land lays and the habitat. This is where skill comes into play, taking the lay of the land and the habitat into consideration then figuring out stand placement. Some properties are easy to figure out and it's a no brainer, others are much harder. If the property has steep hills with a few nice saddles and has a good mix of timber and fields then I could tell you in minutes where the best stand location would be for killing a mature buck. If the property is relatively flat and mostly thick woods it will take more effort to find the perfect location.

Another huge factor is time, how much time can you spend hunting. I doubt that any hunter no matter how skilled he or she is can kill a mature buck every year if they only hunt a few days every year. You have got to put time in the stand.

I have killed several mature bucks, at least 1 3.5 every year since 2000 and several were 4.5 with the occasional 5.5+. Some were skill and no doubt some were luck, right place right time. Some years the only reason I got one was the fact that I hunted over 30 days, close to 40 days. If I only had weekends I wouldn't fire a shot some years.

 

[fairchaser]

Doesn't everyone have the same amount of luck over a long time? Mature bucks don't change their behavior based on who is hunting them on any given day. Of course there are events that can't be explained by us. But, any deer killed takes skill even if you only needed to line up your sight and pull a trigger. I've even screwed that up before. Even though we never control all the elements of sucess, what we do control takes learned skills. I always give God praise especially when I am successful because I know He is sovereign over all the successes and failures. With that said, I believe the more we know our hunting area, the more we know about buck behavior, the more we sharpen our hunting skills, the more we are committed to hunting and holding out for our target buck,the better our hunting property is at holding good buck, the more successful we will be. For some it may take only a little skill and for those who bowhunt, highly pressured public areas for mature bucks, it takes a great deal of skill. Regardless it's all skill if measured over a long enough time.

 

[Bone Collector]

I think it takes age, nutrition and genetics. The rest is just shooting.

This is how I feel about it. If you have a large enough parcel or a cluster of parcels where everyone is aiming for the same goal of growing mature bucks, Once you get some deer to maturity, the rest is having the time to get in a stand and being in the right stand at the right time. The last one may take some skill, but can also be achieved solely by luck.

 

[fairchaser]

I think it takes age, nutrition and genetics. The rest is just shooting.

This is how I feel about it. If you have a large enough parcel or a cluster of parcels where everyone is aiming for the same goal of growing mature bucks, Once you get some deer to maturity, the rest is having the time to get in a stand and being in the right stand at the right time. The last one may take some skill, but can also be achieved solely by luck.

BC, you describe Ames to a tee. It's a large parcel, everyone has the same goals at least as much as the rules apply to all equally, and there are plenty of mature bucks. Some new to the club will always kill a buck here and there, some veterans will also kill a buck every now and then, but a few will kill a buck or two every year. The hours spent in the stand will only explain a portion of the success. The only thing that explains that greater success over a long period is skill. I don't think luck can explain the consistent above average success for a handful of hunters. Can you kill a buck with luck, yes. But, skill will trump luck over long periods of time. JMO

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Skill can be overridden with the right property for the most part IMO. Local guy I know has close to 18,000 acres to hunt that very few people can legally hunt.His pictures make him look like Daniel Boone but all he is doing is riding around in a truck (private roads) during the rut.


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[Winchester]

A random mature buck killed every few years can be labeled as luck, those killing them year in and year out, especially so on small private and even public lands, takes a whole other level of skill vs the random mature buck every few years by the guy who hunts a lot. Anybody that thinks you can kill mature bucks every year for many years in a row, simply relying on luck, will have a very rude wake up call when trying it for themselves! I know a lot of people who hunt, have many many friends who hunt, and its always the same few guys who are killing the older bucks, regardless of their situation as it pertains to the properties they hunt. This seems to be even more prevalent here in East TN where our deer herd is smaller than anywhere else in the state, hence making seeing/killing any deer harder, especially the old bucks, simply because we just dont have as many as other areas where the deer herd is larger. Luck imo is the very random acts that happen, far from the consistent episodes that some hunters produce year in and year out! All that said, it never hurts to have some things go your way, just dont rely on this for your success unless you want to be calling somebody else a lucky dog year after year.
To explain a lil farther, lets take 10 hunters and give them all access to the same 5 properties, every year for 10 years in a row, all 5 new to them every year , no previous knowledge of the land. At the end of the 10 years you will have a few that simply outproduced the others by a good margin when it comes to killing mature bucks. This is definitely not luck, especially with all the factors being exactly the same for everybody.