History of TN Deer

[TboneD]

The link below is to an article by Dan Gibbs, a TWRA wildlife biologist. I'm sure a lot of y'all have read it, but I found it interesting. For instance, being from MS, I didn't know that it wasn't until 1988 before TWRA opened the last of our 95 counties to deer hunting.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/twra ... ration.pdf


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[DRSJ35]

Re: History of TN Deer

thats very interesting thanks for posting

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: History of TN Deer

Also, note how so many of the current higher deer-kill counties never had any deer stocked.

Seemed to take somewhere around 10 years for deer stocked in one county to "populate" across an adjoining county?
On another thread "Crossing the Campbell County Line", some seem to think the deer are genetically different in two adjoining counties.

Is there much chance there could be any significant genetic difference between the deer of two adjoining counties (without any physical barriers between) after several decades?

 

[TboneD]

History of TN Deer

Also, note how so many of the current higher deer-kill counties never had any deer stocked.

Seemed to take somewhere around 10 years for deer stocked in one county to "populate" across an adjoining county?
On another thread "Crossing the Campbell County Line", some seem to think the deer are genetically different in two adjoining counties.

Is there much chance there could be any significant genetic difference between the deer of two adjoining counties (without any physical barriers between) after several decades?

I don't know when he wrote the article, so I don't know if he would still say there's any Wisconsin genes left in the Cumberland plateau (or Cheatham WMA for that matter), post EHD outbreaks. TN Deer Guy and I were talking back in the fall about Cheatham's doe protection, and he speculated that they possibly were still trying to protect any deer that might still have any Wisconsin in them. I have no idea but it's obvious that there would be little of it if any left in the gene pool. I've always been under the impression that the Texas genetics were behind Fort Campbell's trophy potential.


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[TheLBLman]

Re: History of TN Deer

I have no idea but it's obvious that there would be little of it if any left in the gene pool. I've always been under the impression that the Texas genetics were behind Fort Campbell's trophy potential.

Those same "Texas" genetics are in many TN counties, known for not producing many large antlered bucks.

I believe the main three reasons Ft. Campbell produces so many large antlered bucks include

1) Unique hunting regs and relatively limited hunting (compared to other WMAs and counties).

2) Great soils with lots of agricultural crops (it's always a huge plus, especially with greater buck age structure and less buck hunting).

3) Over half of Ft. Campbell's borders are in the State of KY, where the bordering deer hunting regs are vastly different than TN's, and this may have even significantly effected the "mindset" of those hunters who choose to hunt Ft. Campbell, say as compared to the many other WMAs many of these same hunters would find much more convenient for them to hunt.

 

[Hunter 257W]

Re: History of TN Deer

Thanks for posting this. Interesting reading. TWRA had an article similar to this in the monthly magazine several years back but I've misplaced it.

Although it's interesting to see where the deer came from, I don't think the individual genetics from the other states has an influence anymore. The fact that deer weren't even stocked in many counties yet they filled in the entire state shows that they don't stagnate in one area. After so many years there has been so much mixing that I doubt any traits of the individual genetics from the other states still exists. It's sort of like putting a bunch of Black Angus in with Herefords and letting them breed for 50 years. You'd have no Black Angus or Herefords any more - rather you'd have a mix of the two.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Re: History of TN Deer

I purchased this buck off of my uncle. He swears up and down that is father shot the deer in Lawrence County early during the restoration period. No picture exists of the Hunter and his kill. I was unaware that some black-tailed deer had been released in Tennessee. If some of these deer had been stocked in South Lawrence County, then it would make sense. I have thought about having this rack DNA tested.

 

[bigtex]

Re: History of TN Deer

Great read thanks for posting it!!
I well remember the trapping at Chuck Swan, [was called Central peninsula back then] I first hunted Chuck Swan in the early 70's and it was literally crawling with deer. If you didn't see 20+ deer a sit it was considered a slow day. Of course the deer were small because they were so overpopulated but it was fun seeing so many deer. Compounds weren't legal in those days it was either recurve or longbow, the first two days of archery were buck only and I often had does bed under my stand. Portable stands weren't around then either but it was legal to build permanent stands. My buddies and I would go up during the Summer and build stands and scout. Permanent stands were finally outlawed because of so many accidents with hunters falling out of them when they would rot away.
When the trapping program was implemented their were traps everywhere, a lot of hunters became very angry and many traps were turned over and some even were burned.
The TWRA has done an outstanding job of reintroducing deer in Tn. My county [McMinn] only had portions open for hunting and the season was measured in days not weeks or months. The entire county was closed to hunting for several years while the stocking program was implemented. When it was reopened some very nice bucks from the areas that already had a decent deer population were killed because they had been protected long enough to get some age on them.
Thanks again TWRA for your efforts!!

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: History of TN Deer

The TWRA has done an outstanding job of reintroducing deer in Tn. . . . . .
Thanks again TWRA for your efforts!!

Indeed, an outstanding job, not just in reintroducing deer, but wild turkey.

If you think "age" isn't generally perhaps THE most significant single factor determining the size of a buck's antlers, note how many of Tennessee's largest recorded bucks were taken over three decades ago (and in particular in the first year of legal hunting in a particular county). This is particularly noteworthy when one considers how relatively "tiny" the total deer kill was back then.

Speaking of Chuck Swan WMA, I remember the first time I went there, having what I initially thought was several medium sized dogs run by me, then suddenly realizing they were just very small deer. Other than Cades Cove, I had never previously encountered so many deer by just walking around. Actually, I believe the Chuck Swan deer density once greatly exceeded any that's ever been at Cades Cove.

 

[TboneD]

Re: History of TN Deer

I have no idea but it's obvious that there would be little of it if any left in the gene pool. I've always been under the impression that the Texas genetics were behind Fort Campbell's trophy potential.

Those same "Texas" genetics are in many TN counties, known for not producing many large antlered bucks.

I believe the main three reasons Ft. Campbell produces so many large antlered bucks include

1) Unique hunting regs and relatively limited hunting (compared to other WMAs and counties).

2) Great soils with lots of agricultural crops (it's always a huge plus, especially with greater buck age structure and less buck hunting).

3) Over half of Ft. Campbell's borders are in the State of KY, where the bordering deer hunting regs are vastly different than TN's, and this may have even significantly effected the "mindset" of those hunters who choose to hunt Ft. Campbell, say as compared to the many other WMAs many of these same hunters would find much more convenient for them to hunt.

Good points and I wouldn't disagree. I'd read about the Texas deer stocking there by the military years ago, and our local sporting goods store wouldn't allow any FC bucks in their big buck contest. Friend of mine from church has shot a few really good deer up there that all weren't all that old. From what I've seen quite a number of wide and higher point racks seem to come from even younger deer than you'd think up there. But yes, it's good ground, and I assume Stewart and Montgomery counties have the same potential.


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[Biggun4214]

Re: History of TN Deer

I helped with deer from HAAP, AEDC, Cherokee Lake, Henderson Island, Chuck Swan, and probably Cades Cove. I lassoed a big buck on Cherokee and learned why everyone else was leaving them alone. I had a doe knock the hide off my arm when we tried to put an ear tag in. I put her in a head lock when she tried to escape the transport box. We darted a three legged doe at AEDC that had 2 fawns. The deer at HAAP knew the difference between green GW trucks and green military trucks LOL.

 

[Biggun4214]

Re: History of TN Deer

Actually, I believe the Chuck Swan deer density once greatly exceeded any that's ever been at Cades Cove.

There were a few years that the deer kill at Chuck Swan was about 1 deer/20 acres. The annual kill was between 1000-1500 deer.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: History of TN Deer

There were a few years that the deer kill at Chuck Swan was about 1 deer/20 acres.

WOWZER!
That would be a hunter KILL rate of 32 deer per square mile!
A kill rate that exceeds the actual statewide population per square mile!

To add some perspective, that would be comparable to taking 3,987 deer in a single year from Catoosa WMA.
(In the 2015 deer season, 316 deer were killed at Catoosa WMA.)

 

[morgancountry]

Re: History of TN Deer

Also, note how so many of the current higher deer-kill counties never had any deer stocked.

Seemed to take somewhere around 10 years for deer stocked in one county to "populate" across an adjoining county?
On another thread "Crossing the Campbell County Line", some seem to think the deer are genetically different in two adjoining counties.

Is there much chance there could be any significant genetic difference between the deer of two adjoining counties (without any physical barriers between) after several decades?

I don't know when he wrote the article, so I don't know if he would still say there's any Wisconsin genes left in the Cumberland plateau (or Cheatham WMA for that matter), post EHD outbreaks. TN Deer Guy and I were talking back in the fall about Cheatham's doe protection, and he speculated that they possibly were still trying to protect any deer that might still have any Wisconsin in them. I have no idea but it's obvious that there would be little of it if any left in the gene pool. I've always been under the impression that the Texas genetics were behind Fort Campbell's trophy potential.


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This kind of ties into a discussion on the Catoosa thread. There were so many really big deer killed in that area, including the state record, I think a lot of it had to do with the stocking of deer from the North midwest. Can you prove that? Who knows. Just my thoughts

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[TheLBLman]

Re: History of TN Deer

Here's an interesting tidbit:

Weakley County was stocked with deer from Ft. Campbell.
Since no stockings are showing on these maps for Obion County and Henry Counties, would assume those two counties on either side of Weakley were populated mainly by the Weakley County stocking?

Stewart County was stocked with deer from Chuck Swan WMA (where most originated from North Carolina?).

All four of the above counties form a line (west to east) along the TN-KY line.
Only Stewart has significant showing in the TN deer registry, and supposedly, it would have the least desirable genetics.
Interestingly, Stewart has more registry entries than any of the counties stocked from Wisconsin deer.
And one more, Campbell County, TN was stocked with the same deer line as Stewart County, TN (from the Chuck Swan WMA).

 

[TboneD]

Re: History of TN Deer

Here's an interesting tidbit:

Weakley County was stocked with deer from Ft. Campbell.
Since no stockings are showing on these maps for Obion County and Henry Counties, would assume those two counties on either side of Weakley were populated mainly by the Weakley County stocking?

Stewart County was stocked with deer from Chuck Swan WMA (where most originated from North Carolina?).

All four of the above counties form a line (west to east) along the TN-KY line.
Only Stewart has significant showing in the TN deer registry, and supposedly, it would have the least desirable genetics.
Interestingly, Stewart has more registry entries than any of the counties stocked from Wisconsin deer.
And one more, Campbell County, TN was stocked with the same deer line as Stewart County, TN (from the Chuck Swan WMA).

Yes, I'd say that is of interest. You suggest that the genetic makeup of the original stockings became irrelevant maybe sooner than we'd think?


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[TheLBLman]

Re: History of TN Deer

You suggest that the genetic makeup of the original stockings became irrelevant maybe sooner than we'd think?

Was mainly just trying to "suggest" there's now little difference statewide in any county's deer "genetics", and that other factors have become more important.

 

[TboneD]

Re: History of TN Deer

You suggest that the genetic makeup of the original stockings became irrelevant maybe sooner than we'd think?

Was mainly just trying to "suggest" there's now little difference statewide in any county's deer "genetics", and that other factors have become more important.

Just checking. I'd agree it seems that way.


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[landman]

Re: History of TN Deer

Here's an interesting tidbit:

Weakley County was stocked with deer from Ft. Campbell.
Since no stockings are showing on these maps for Obion County and Henry Counties, would assume those two counties on either side of Weakley were populated mainly by the Weakley County stocking?

Stewart County was stocked with deer from Chuck Swan WMA (where most originated from North Carolina?).

All four of the above counties form a line (west to east) along the TN-KY line.
Only Stewart has significant showing in the TN deer registry, and supposedly, it would have the least desirable genetics.
Interestingly, Stewart has more registry entries than any of the counties stocked from Wisconsin deer.
And one more, Campbell County, TN was stocked with the same deer line as Stewart County, TN (from the Chuck Swan WMA).

Good point

But you have to look at that FT C deer spread over into Stewart, part of FT C is in it anyway.

Then you deal with the KY line deer of Trigg County, which always had Bigger Rack deer being killed
since the 70's when I started hunting.

Then LBL deer was a mix, of KY too, plus my father showed me parts of an old private game farm in LBL
in the early 70's, we actually hunted the second gun hunt ever held at LBL, I think it was 72 or 73. Fallow Deer
Where killed commonly back then at LBL.

I need to go back a score his buck from that hunt, it would be in the high 130's.

 

[Andy S.]

Re: History of TN Deer

For those of you who have not read it, the book titled "Tennessee Whitetails" may be of interest to you. The author, Jay Langston, covers the half century long restocking efforts as well as the genetic makeup of stocked deer, just as Dan's paper does.

http://www.amazon.com/Tennessee-Whiteta ... 0883173069