Heavy vs. Light

[Ski]

If it shoots straight and hits where you are aiming with a sharp broadhead thats all that matters

That's the nuts and bolts of it. Folks get so wrapped up in weight, foc, fixed vs mechanical, bow tune, right vs left helical, 3 vs 4 fletch, etc. that we forget for 10,000 years before us people were using broken edge rocks tied onto sticks launched from tree limbs and sinew strings. They killed elephant size animals with that stuff so pretty much anything we've got today within reason will kill a deer.

Don't get me wrong. I encourage every hunter to take their equipment seriously. But be careful not to go so far into the weeds that you begin believing you need a cannon to kill a deer. You don't. Keep it real.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

That's the nuts and bolts of it. Folks get so wrapped up in weight, foc, fixed vs mechanical, bow tune, right vs left helical, 3 vs 4 fletch, etc. that we forget for 10,000 years before us people were using broken edge rocks tied onto sticks launched from tree limbs and sinew strings. They killed elephant size animals with that stuff so pretty much anything we've got today within reason will kill a deer.

Don't get me wrong. I encourage every hunter to take their equipment seriously. But be careful not to go so far into the weeds that you begin believing you need a cannon to kill a deer. You don't. Keep it real.

John Dudley had a good video on this from this past summer. Technique and practice will get you the best results.

Skip to 4:30 unless tou want to see him shoot for 4.5 minutes.

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

I shoot a 550 grain arrow with a polished sharp Magnus stinger Buzzcut. Why… because I always had issues getting penetration with mechanicals and even fixed blade heads. Since switching several years ago, no issues blowing through bear, hogs, deer. That's part of it too, I can expect to see any of those three species on stand. Hogs aren't a wimp. I also don't shoot over 30 yards. That being said, would i go over 600 grains…No. trajectory is to much like a rock for me and my set up with that.I'm perfectly happy at 550.

This is pretty much my set up as well. I just use the regular 100grain 4 blade Magnus Stingers and the last 2 years I have killed a 5+ and a 2-3 yr old buck and both ran 20-30 yards and crashed and died immediately. It is all about having a well tuned bow, sharp broadheads and being accurate and hitting your spots. I am somewhere around 500-550 total arrow mass with a 250 Spine and shoot 72Lbs and a 32" Draw length with a Mathew's VXR. It is a deadly combo and puts em down quick!

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

The way I visualize it is, a dart is real heavy on the end. Even throwing it, it will fly pretty decent. If you put vanes on a sharpened pencil it won't fly good at all without some weight on the point end.

Very good point!

 

[Wooden Arrow]

i made a few 5/16" purpleheart shafts years ago, to go with a 65# draw Super Diablo i got, hoping to elk hunt. (never happened...yet) no idea what they weighed. but shooting them at my foam target was eye-opening. at thirty yards, they would roll the foam target over backwards, and the Wensel Woodsman broadheads would be protruding out the back.

 

[Wooden Arrow]

Sorry to be ignorant about it, forward of center...of what?
I just started shooting a bow yesterday. Trying to learn.
Thanks

of the arrow shaft. % of weight in front half vs back half. it should always be neutral or positive to the front (point) end of the arrow. try to balance an arrow across your finger, measured to the center. it better lean toward the broadhead.

 

[Lost Lake]

To the OP's question, IMO, any reasonable arrow weight of 8-10 grains per pound is gonna do the job well. If it flys straight, it's gonna penetrate with a good broadhead.

The only reason I'm shooting 13 grains per pound now is that it helps get my point of aim higher on target, which means I can hold closer to dead on by gap shooting with lighter weight trad bows. The extra arrow weight sure ain't gonna hurt penetration using a lighter weight bow though.

 

[knightrider]

To the OP's question, IMO, any reasonable arrow weight of 8-10 grains per pound is gonna do the job well. If it flys straight, it's gonna penetrate with a good broadhead.

The only reason I'm shooting 13 grains per pound now is that it helps get my point of aim higher on target, which means I can hold closer to dead on by gap shooting with lighter weight trad bows. The extra arrow weight sure ain't gonna hurt penetration using a lighter weight bow though.

Im shooting 13 grains per inch with 51 pounds, no problem with a sharp cut on contact broad head

 

[agelessssone]

Killed an Ontario bear shooting 2019's, 25" long, 100 grain fixed 3 blade, 74 #, @ 320 fps.
Quartering into me, through one lung, out the ribcage opposite side, into and out of right rear leg, stuck in the ground.
Shaft broke off when he jumped and whirled. Ran 25 yds and expired while I watched him take his last breath.
Cut the femoral artery in his back leg, dead within seconds.

 

[WTNBowHunter]

I'm hunting whitetails so for me, it's whatever falls in the range of most efficient. I have a 30" draw and pull 70 #s, have been shooting Easton Axis 340's (match grades) and they fly very true. I shoot with both eyes open which allows me to watch the arrow fly better (i feel like at least), especially at distance. It's not the heaviest arrow out there but very efficient for my setup.

 

[redblood]

I dont get crazy with it, but i shoot 31" draw and 72 pounds with. 300 spine arrow and heavy fixed broadhead. I have to pull my arrows out of the ground after they go through the deer. Im amazed at how little penetration some of the hunting show guys get. Of course many are short guys with short draw lengths or are shooting mechanicals

 

[redblood]

I

What's better and what leads you to believe one is better than the other? I'm currently shooting 417 grains at roughly 14% FOC. I'm interested in trying to get over 550 grains and a target of 18-20% FOC. Also, I have no interest in trying to shoot 400fps. I have zero plans to shoot an animal further than 30 yards. I have no

 

[redblood]

I was shooting heavy arrows way before it was cool….

 

[102]

One of the fun things about bowhunting is playing around with your set up.
A lot of guys like to tinker. I'm one of them.

But if you really care about the truth about light vs. heavy arrow set ups...I guess you need to know the "credentials" of the person typing this page.

I am a serious whitetail deer BOWhunter. I hunt mostly Southeast Tennessee. Almost all public land that has heavy pressured (educated, spooky, wary, mature) string dropping whitetail.

I am surrounded (in my circle of friends) by serious bowhunters who do the same.

WE have collectively killed LITERALLY THOUSANDS, I mean THOUSANDS of whitetails. Over HALF by arrow. I have been involved with MANY of these friends bow set ups and often am involved with blood trailing decisions, if not physically there.

I have pictures and in may cases, videos, of ALL of my bow kills which as of the end of last 23-24 season, now totals 366 whitetail deer bow kills. And 34 gun kills. Plus 1 xbow kill.

All 366 bow kills were a compound bow. I have killed one deer with a bow but it is not included in my bow kill total.

I killed 21 whitetails last season. All vertical bow. (also 4 hogs)

I have ALL of my kill tags. Except the very first (my first deer) ,which was a bow kill, in 1981 at Arnold Air Force base in 1981.

I killed all these deer (because I don't "harvest" squirrels, fish, or any other living creatures that I consume).

I record STOOOPID amounts of data for each kill.
Including, but not limited to,

DATE
TIME OF DAY
MALE/FEMALE
NUMBER OF POINTS
DRESSED WEIGHT
WEAPON USED
DISTANCE OF SHOT
DISTANCE TO RECOVERY
ORGAN AFFECTED
WEATHER/TEMP
KILL TAG NUMBER
LOCATION OF KILL


There are countless videos documenting wound channels of almost every kill.

I have shot 600 + grain arrows tipped with a Rocky Mountain Supreme 150 grain 1.5 " fixed.
Killed several deer with them. Worked well. Slow as molasses in winter.

I've shot every kind of broadhead (type) available.
Fixed
Mechanical
Cheap/expensive
Cut on contact
Chisel tip
single bevil
2 blade
5 blade
spinning (Razorback 5)
Forward deploy
Rearward deploy
Dull
Sharp
SCARY sharp (IMMENSELY BEST)
1 piece
replaceable blade
And on and on...

I've shot light, fast and loud (High Country Safari with an over draw on 2213 aluminums. Sounded like a 22 pistol going off) OLD technology.

And heavy, quiet and slow. Jennings round wheel 46"? OLD technology. Very quiet, forgiving, slow, accurate.

I feel EXTREMELYconfident in making the following statement...
I'm certain I have either put an arrow through, or been on the blood trail of, every conceivable bow shot deer imaginable.
And many of these bow shot deer...MANY times.

I counsel MANY bowhunters every bow season concerning their hits.

So here is what my opinion is concerning light vs heavy arrow:
Like Ski said...if you don't make the right shot, you are probably gonna have problems (paraphrased).

Accuracy is KING!
After all, if you don't hit the target at all...

The NUMBER ONE reason why most bowhunters miss the bullseye (spelled killing shot) is because they do not put the pin in the correct place that corresponds with the distance.

In a perfect world...there would be no arch in archery. But there is.
Unlike rifles that shoot relatively FLAT at ranges inside 100 yards (common in the South), bows drop dramatically at distance.

So there has to be a balance between speed, noise, and most importantly...ACCURACY!

FOR ME, (not necessarily everyone), if I am at full draw on a P/Y buck at 10 yards, that looks up at me and BOLTS to 34 yards (really happened), I want to know I can make a slight adjustment on my pin position, really quick by holding a tad higher, and make the shot.

The yardage is not nearly as critical at 265fps as say 230 fps.

And my bow is lower in draw weight than it used to be. At 60 pounds and a 385 grain FINISHED arrow, I get a fairly quiet, 265fps (which gives me a top pin that is set at 25 yards). Which allows me to hold at the bottom third inside 17 yards, and middle body at 26-30 yards which allows for deer drop.

Listen, there is NO "PLAN B" for center punching the top BALL of a humerus in a large, mature whitetail with a dressed weight over 180. Especially standing at 25 plus yards. I don't care how heavy your finished arrow is. Blowing through a shoulder usually means blowing through the wide, flat part of the scapula. Not really thick bone!

Don't kid yourself.

And ANY decent set up, expandable or no, will pass clean through the scapula of almost any whitetail inside 20 yards as long as you don't hit the scapular crest. And then, ALL bets are off.

So I chose a shoulder (mine), distance, forgiving set up that is accurate, quiet, and deadly.

Heavy set ups work well too, but past 20 yards most bowhunters fall apart on quick distance judging while under pressure. And an error in distance judging of 3 yards at 30 yards is really severe for bows with bigger pin gaps.

I now and have for the last 3 season (60 bow kills), used Magnus Stingers, Buzzcuts, and Black Hornets.There is no doubt, Magnus has the BEST customer service available with the best product I have ever used. ESPECIALLY when you couple them with the stay sharp sharpening system!

Honestly if I didn't use Magnus it would be crazy expensive to bow hunt deer for me!

Shoot, find, re-sharpen OR replace...FREE

BTW...anyone can say, :"I've killed dozens or hundreds of deer with my bow, few can back it up!

I'm not claiming to be the best bowhunter, but I have killed 366 whitetails with a bow and recorded loads of data.

Actually I am claiming to be an expert on KILLING, not hunting, whitetails with a bow and arrow. Meaning where to put the arrow, how alert the deer is before the shot (reaction time/aim point), where to aim when the deer is standing at any angle to best affect a lethal outcome, how to read the sound of the hit, the sign on the arrow especially smell, appropriate wait times before trailing/grid search begins, and of course interpreting blood.

Also keep this in mind...my average shot for 366 bow kills=19 yards
deadliest shot=kidneys
Longest=52 yds
closest=UNDER my stand

As long as you have at least 40lbs KE you should be good.

Also remember this. People talk about a "Plan B" in reference to shooting a single bevel bone splitting set up. Makes me laugh.
There's a WHOLE lot more "Plan B" gut area where you really NEED the largest and sharpest broadhead available. But those frequently divert in impact. Especially on ribs but also on angled shots that divert in opening. So agin...pros and cons.

Honestly...here is what you need.
1-ACCURACY
2-a poundage you can easily pull back while sitting down drawing straight between your knees, full winter clothing.
3-ACCURACY
4-as flat shooting a set up as you can shoot ACCURATELY with the least noise.
5-Super sharp/ACCURATE broadhead.

Hope this helps.

 

[ImThere]

I shoot Easton axis micro 27" long with 100 grain mechanicals. I have pass through 99.9% of the time. Not sure there is a need to fling heavy arrows at a white tailed deer.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

What's better and what leads you to believe one is better than the other? I'm currently shooting 417 grains at roughly 14% FOC. I'm interested in trying to get over 550 grains and a target of 18-20% FOC. Also, I have no interest in trying to shoot 400fps. I have zero plans to shoot an animal further than 30 yards.

Millions of deer have died with an arrow setup in the ballpark of yours. Unless you aren't personally confident in it, then change but that would be the only way I would change—I certainly wouldn't do it for any other reason.

 

[Joe2Kool]

One of the fun things about bowhunting is playing around with your set up.
A lot of guys like to tinker. I'm one of them.

But if you really care about the truth about light vs. heavy arrow set ups...I guess you need to know the "credentials" of the person typing this page.

I am a serious whitetail deer BOWhunter. I hunt mostly Southeast Tennessee. Almost all public land that has heavy pressured (educated, spooky, wary, mature) string dropping whitetail.

I am surrounded (in my circle of friends) by serious bowhunters who do the same.

WE have collectively killed LITERALLY THOUSANDS, I mean THOUSANDS of whitetails. Over HALF by arrow. I have been involved with MANY of these friends bow set ups and often am involved with blood trailing decisions, if not physically there.

I have pictures and in may cases, videos, of ALL of my bow kills which as of the end of last 23-24 season, now totals 366 whitetail deer bow kills. And 34 gun kills. Plus 1 xbow kill.

All 366 bow kills were a compound bow. I have killed one deer with a bow but it is not included in my bow kill total.

I killed 21 whitetails last season. All vertical bow. (also 4 hogs)

I have ALL of my kill tags. Except the very first (my first deer) ,which was a bow kill, in 1981 at Arnold Air Force base in 1981.

I killed all these deer (because I don't "harvest" squirrels, fish, or any other living creatures that I consume).

I record STOOOPID amounts of data for each kill.
Including, but not limited to,

DATE
TIME OF DAY
MALE/FEMALE
NUMBER OF POINTS
DRESSED WEIGHT
WEAPON USED
DISTANCE OF SHOT
DISTANCE TO RECOVERY
ORGAN AFFECTED
WEATHER/TEMP
KILL TAG NUMBER
LOCATION OF KILL


There are countless videos documenting wound channels of almost every kill.

I have shot 600 + grain arrows tipped with a Rocky Mountain Supreme 150 grain 1.5 " fixed.
Killed several deer with them. Worked well. Slow as molasses in winter.

I've shot every kind of broadhead (type) available.
Fixed
Mechanical
Cheap/expensive
Cut on contact
Chisel tip
single bevil
2 blade
5 blade
spinning (Razorback 5)
Forward deploy
Rearward deploy
Dull
Sharp
SCARY sharp (IMMENSELY BEST)
1 piece
replaceable blade
And on and on...

I've shot light, fast and loud (High Country Safari with an over draw on 2213 aluminums. Sounded like a 22 pistol going off) OLD technology.

And heavy, quiet and slow. Jennings round wheel 46"? OLD technology. Very quiet, forgiving, slow, accurate.

I feel EXTREMELYconfident in making the following statement...
I'm certain I have either put an arrow through, or been on the blood trail of, every conceivable bow shot deer imaginable.
And many of these bow shot deer...MANY times.

I counsel MANY bowhunters every bow season concerning their hits.

So here is what my opinion is concerning light vs heavy arrow:
Like Ski said...if you don't make the right shot, you are probably gonna have problems (paraphrased).

Accuracy is KING!
After all, if you don't hit the target at all...

The NUMBER ONE reason why most bowhunters miss the bullseye (spelled killing shot) is because they do not put the pin in the correct place that corresponds with the distance.

In a perfect world...there would be no arch in archery. But there is.
Unlike rifles that shoot relatively FLAT at ranges inside 100 yards (common in the South), bows drop dramatically at distance.

So there has to be a balance between speed, noise, and most importantly...ACCURACY!

FOR ME, (not necessarily everyone), if I am at full draw on a P/Y buck at 10 yards, that looks up at me and BOLTS to 34 yards (really happened), I want to know I can make a slight adjustment on my pin position, really quick by holding a tad higher, and make the shot.

The yardage is not nearly as critical at 265fps as say 230 fps.

And my bow is lower in draw weight than it used to be. At 60 pounds and a 385 grain FINISHED arrow, I get a fairly quiet, 265fps (which gives me a top pin that is set at 25 yards). Which allows me to hold at the bottom third inside 17 yards, and middle body at 26-30 yards which allows for deer drop.

Listen, there is NO "PLAN B" for center punching the top BALL of a humerus in a large, mature whitetail with a dressed weight over 180. Especially standing at 25 plus yards. I don't care how heavy your finished arrow is. Blowing through a shoulder usually means blowing through the wide, flat part of the scapula. Not really thick bone!

Don't kid yourself.

And ANY decent set up, expandable or no, will pass clean through the scapula of almost any whitetail inside 20 yards as long as you don't hit the scapular crest. And then, ALL bets are off.

So I chose a shoulder (mine), distance, forgiving set up that is accurate, quiet, and deadly.

Heavy set ups work well too, but past 20 yards most bowhunters fall apart on quick distance judging while under pressure. And an error in distance judging of 3 yards at 30 yards is really severe for bows with bigger pin gaps.

I now and have for the last 3 season (60 bow kills), used Magnus Stingers, Buzzcuts, and Black Hornets.There is no doubt, Magnus has the BEST customer service available with the best product I have ever used. ESPECIALLY when you couple them with the stay sharp sharpening system!

Honestly if I didn't use Magnus it would be crazy expensive to bow hunt deer for me!

Shoot, find, re-sharpen OR replace...FREE

BTW...anyone can say, :"I've killed dozens or hundreds of deer with my bow, few can back it up!

I'm not claiming to be the best bowhunter, but I have killed 366 whitetails with a bow and recorded loads of data.

Actually I am claiming to be an expert on KILLING, not hunting, whitetails with a bow and arrow. Meaning where to put the arrow, how alert the deer is before the shot (reaction time/aim point), where to aim when the deer is standing at any angle to best affect a lethal outcome, how to read the sound of the hit, the sign on the arrow especially smell, appropriate wait times before trailing/grid search begins, and of course interpreting blood.

Also keep this in mind...my average shot for 366 bow kills=19 yards
deadliest shot=kidneys
Longest=52 yds
closest=UNDER my stand

As long as you have at least 40lbs KE you should be good.

Also remember this. People talk about a "Plan B" in reference to shooting a single bevel bone splitting set up. Makes me laugh.
There's a WHOLE lot more "Plan B" gut area where you really NEED the largest and sharpest broadhead available. But those frequently divert in impact. Especially on ribs but also on angled shots that divert in opening. So agin...pros and cons.

Honestly...here is what you need.
1-ACCURACY
2-a poundage you can easily pull back while sitting down drawing straight between your knees, full winter clothing.
3-ACCURACY
4-as flat shooting a set up as you can shoot ACCURATELY with the least noise.
5-Super sharp/ACCURATE broadhead.

Hope this helps.

That's a lot of bow-killing experience. WAY more than me.

Questions for you, after all the success, any particular setup you've found that works best?
What setup are you shooting now? Specifically draw weight, total arrow finished weight and speed?

Thanks.

 

[102]

That's a lot of bow-killing experience. WAY more than me.

Questions for you, after all the success, any particular setup you've found that works best?
What setup are you shooting now? Specifically draw weight, total arrow finished weight and speed?

Thanks.

Joe2Kool,
Sorry it took so long to get back.

Great questions.
1-any particular set up that works best?
Everyone is different. Arm length, strength, eyesight, BALANCE, ability to judge distance, and on and on. So there is not any answer that ANYONE can give that works for everyone. It's mostly trial and error.

Last season I killed 10 deer with a brand new 34" Bowtec SS 34 (1200.00ish). 60 pound draw.
About 2 pounds (finished, rigged out) heavier than the Bowtec Icon/Zion (600.00ish) that I used for the last 11 deer I killed (plus 4 hogs) for the last half of 2023-24 season. Also 60 pound draw.

Both bows were super tuned by Doc at Harvest Archery. They are super accurate, very forgiving, relatively quiet, and I have great confidence in what I can do with them. Even though I got the SS 34 two weeks before the season opener.
And I am on my 3rd bowtec Icon now rebranded as a Bowtec Zion.

I really like the Montana Black Gold sight. I hunted out West for a few years and needed a floater pin but didn't want to give up my 3 pin sight. My bows are set up to shoot about 260 fps. That seems to be my sweet spot.
My sight window tends to get a bit cluttered with more than 3 pins. So the MBG Ascent which has a bottom pin floater works well for me.

At 260 fps my pins are set at 25/35/45. This allows me quick yardage changes while trying to stay on moving targets.

I shoot a QAD ultra.

Scott release index trigger. Itty bitty Goose and a few other index Scott releases. I like a hard trigger not a hair trigger.

Gold Tip pro hunter/Blazer Vanes x 3 (2 degree offset) tipped with Magnus Black Hornet or Serazor 4 blade 100 grain. Total finished arrow weight is 380 grains.

not a lighted nock because they can and WILL spook off a second shot.

Bohning 5 arrow quiver with matching quiver mount on all of my stands.

D loop

HUGE peep for low light and a bright sight ring to center in peep.

S coil stabilizer-CHEAP.

I've shot arrows completely through scapulas of several deer weighing in excess on 240 pounds.

Full penetration on an 800 pound elk (not complete pass through as well as a 500 pound Cow elk.

Penetration is rarely the problem with bowhunters. Accuracy is!!!