Heavy vs. Light

[SinningSaint33]

What's better and what leads you to believe one is better than the other? I'm currently shooting 417 grains at roughly 14% FOC. I'm interested in trying to get over 550 grains and a target of 18-20% FOC. Also, I have no interest in trying to shoot 400fps. I have zero plans to shoot an animal further than 30 yards.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

I've shot both over the years and I'm now in the middle of the road range with a 454 grain arrow. I've never measured FOC and have no interest in it. Speed is also irrelevant because anytime I'm shooting over 30, the target has been ranged and my sight is dialed in to that yardage. I do hunt out west, so longer shots are a possibility.

I've killed a bunch of critters with a bow over the years and my results indicate that a well tuned bow and a razor sharp broadhead trumps arrow weight.

 

[UCStandSitter]

The testing I did showed less penetration on both foam and bags when I got over 480gr. Than I was getting with super light micros, 50gr inserts and 100gr broadheads. I ordered the Ranch Fairy test kit a couple years ago and gave it a fair shake. I was pretty disappointed with the results but not necessarily surprised. Heavy is fine but you gotta throw it harder. I was pulling 63lbs and that was more than enough for whitetail hunting. As stated above, a fast sharp broadhead just works. So long as you aren't throwing a drinking straw it will get good pen

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I shoot a 550 grain arrow with a polished sharp Magnus stinger Buzzcut. Why… because I always had issues getting penetration with mechanicals and even fixed blade heads. Since switching several years ago, no issues blowing through bear, hogs, deer. That's part of it too, I can expect to see any of those three species on stand. Hogs aren't a wimp. I also don't shoot over 30 yards. That being said, would i go over 600 grains…No. trajectory is to much like a rock for me and my set up with that.I'm perfectly happy at 550.

 

[SinningSaint33]

The testing I did showed less penetration on both foam and bags when I got over 480gr. Than I was getting with super light micros, 50gr inserts and 100gr broadheads. I ordered the Ranch Fairy test kit a couple years ago and gave it a fair shake. I was pretty disappointed with the results but not necessarily surprised. Heavy is fine but you gotta throw it harder. I was pulling 63lbs and that was more than enough for whitetail hunting. As stated above, a fast sharp broadhead just works. So long as you aren't throwing a drinking straw it will get good pen

The problem with that is, targets are designed to STOP the arrow. Idk. I guess I'm just having thoughts of "what if I get an opportunity at the Buck of a lifetime and once I let my arrow go, he turns or ducks and I hit scapula and not a kill shot". heavier arrow = more kinetic energy is what really peaks my interest. Obviously, I do my best to make shots that I'm confident with, but once that arrow leaves the string, it's out of my hands.

 

[UCStandSitter]

The problem with that is, targets are designed to STOP the arrow. Idk. I guess I'm just having thoughts of "what if I get an opportunity at the Buck of a lifetime and once I let my arrow go, he turns or ducks and I hit scapula and not a kill shot". heavier arrow = more kinetic energy is what really peaks my interest. Obviously, I do my best to make shots that I'm confident with, but once that arrow leaves the string, it's out of my hands.

That's bow hunting

 

[Ski]

I grew up shooting aluminum arrows with 1" 3-blade heads from bows that shot sub 200fps. Unless I hit hard bone I always got pass through hits. Then carbon fiber arrows came out, bows began using cams & strings instead of wheels & metal cables, and for awhile it was all about speed. Still regularly got pass through hits. In recent years I had been using sub 400gr arrows with the biggest mechanical heads I could get, and from a 70lb x 30.5"dl bow I generally always got pass through hits. A few years ago this heavy arrow cut on contact broad head stuff began buzzing so I switched to 530gr arrows just to see what the buzz was all about.

My new arrows were 240 spine so stiff as rebar, 530gr with heavy brass inserts, but I kept using the same giant mechanical heads and bow. Of the six bucks I killed with those arrows I never once got an exit wound. Not a single pass through. First time was 20yds away double lung through ribs only and the arrow didn't puncture through the opposite side. I was perplexed but curious so I shot 5 more with same results. I feel that was a sufficient sample, an honest effort. Now I'm back to 400gr 350 spine arrows and not looking back. That's all the proof I need.

If I had used a cut on contact fixed blade head then I probably would have gotten pass through hits. But I use a huge cut expandable that I trust and don't want to change. Nothing was wrong beforehand, no penetration issues. I was just curious so I tried the heavy arrow, and found that with same head and same bow it did not penetrate as well as a faster, lighter arrow.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

I grew up shooting aluminum arrows with 1" 3-blade heads from bows that shot sub 200fps. Unless I hit hard bone I always got pass through hits.

I grew up shooting the same thing; aluminum arrows, 85 grain Wasp 3 blade broadheads, and a bow with little round cams on it. Pass-throughs every time. When people get to preaching FOC to me, I think back on those days and realize FOC has never been important to me.

 

[Ski]

The problem with that is, targets are designed to STOP the arrow. Idk. I guess I'm just having thoughts of "what if I get an opportunity at the Buck of a lifetime and once I let my arrow go, he turns or ducks and I hit scapula and not a kill shot". heavier arrow = more kinetic energy is what really peaks my interest. Obviously, I do my best to make shots that I'm confident with, but once that arrow leaves the string, it's out of my hands.

Best I could advise is test it for yourself. You only learn what your equipment can do by using it. And don't ever lose sight of the fact that you're only one half of the equation. Your prey is the other half, and you have zero control over them. They're trying to evade you like their life depends on it, because it does. And sometimes they win. That's the brutal reality of bow hunting. You can do everything perfect and still fail. Shy of using a firearm, equipment won't make up for that fact. Heavy arrow, light arrow, foc, coc, etc. doesn't amount to a hill of beans IMO. You either get the arrow in the right spot or you don't.

 

[SinningSaint33]

That's bow hunting

You're right, but why not prepare for the worst by building something that will have a better chance(scientifically) to break the scapula?

 

[UCStandSitter]

You're right, but why not prepare for the worst by building something that will have a better chance(scientifically) to break the scapula?

As of 3 hrs ago I'm on vacation. I gave my opinion, not interested in helping you justify yours. Sorry

 

[Ski]

You're right, but why not prepare for the worst by building something that will have a better chance(scientifically) to break the scapula?

Here's a series of pics showing a buck who had been shot previously and survived. You can clearly see the arrow likely went through his right scapula.

Here's the exit wound through his chest behind opposite shoulder. It was large enough I could put my thumb in and tough the calloused flesh/membrane covering his rib cage. The wound had healed but not closed. His lungs were grotesquely deformed and about half size. His heart was enlarged like a football. The entry scar showed what looked to be an offset two blade resembling that of a single bevel cut on contact head. Imagine being the hunter who double lung hit a 160" stud and had the arrow sticking in the ground with a heavy bubbly blood trail that led to .... nothing. No doubt he was sick when he couldn't find the buck. But you can't find a deer that isn't dead. Right shot. Right equipment. And still failed.

And here's a video of him making a scrape a couple days before I killed him.

 

[Ski]

Here's a closer look at the entry scar.

When butchering we also found he'd been shot yet again sometime in the past. Found this broad head and broken arrow encased in a tumor lodged in his shoulder on the inside, meaning it had been through his chest cavity, and plausibly explains how the more recent pass through shot didn't kill him because it may have only cut scar tissue from previously damaged flesh.

Then as the taxidermist and I were caping his hide we found another buck's antler tip broken off in his skull plate.

This buck had been shot twice and had another buck's antler broken in his skull, and was still healthy. Sometimes the animal just refuses to die.

 

[CrossVolle]

I have shot every plausible whitetail set up known to man. The best results were for me are about 480 grains total. 17% FOC. It is my opinion to get to 450 grains at least then optimize arrow flight from there. I am sure there are still folks around flinging 380 grain arrows but i just never got the results i wanted shooting a light fast set up, and my bow was way too loud.

On a side note. A razored edge hand sharpened broadhead may be just as essential.

 

[Hduke86]

I'm a middle of the road type. I'm sitting at 450-455 and it works great in my setup. I use solid one piece broadheads and sitting at 65# pull with 30" draw. I wanted a solid arrow but not a log or pencil weight. It also seems to be the best weight at making my bow completely silent which is what I want the most. Two holes is always the goal BUT I am really only wanting to get into the vitals. After that is when you hone your woodsman skills tracking if you don't get a complete pass through.

 

[trex]

With a compound bow I will use the heaviest stiffest aluminum arrow that I can live with. If I am happy with the trajectory.
I always use fixed blade broadheads of 145grains or more. I set up for the worst shot, mistakes happen.
I have not used my compound in years but I used three sight pins as range finder.
I don't remember exactly how I did it but I put the top pin on the very tip of the deer's back and judged were the other two
pins were and got the range. Not measured yards like with a laser range finder but range according to my arrow flight.
I was good to 60 yards but never shot that fare on game.

A heavy arrow moving at a good clip is harder to stop than a light arrow.
A heavy broadhead has thicker blades that may not bend if you hit bone.

I'm going to have to set my compound back up and have some fun.

 

[GhillieBow]

I think draw length is the biggest factor in this along with bow IBO speed. So basically as others have said your personal setup is the key factor. Along with choice of game.

My DL is 27" so I'm just gonna lose a ton of speed and kinetic energy shooting a 600 grain arrow compared to 30" DL. I say experiment but heavy arrows have diminishing returns.

 

[Tenntrapper]

What is "FOC"?

 

[SinningSaint33]

What is "FOC"?

Forward of center

 

[Tenntrapper]

Forward of center

Sorry to be ignorant about it, forward of center...of what?
I just started shooting a bow yesterday. Trying to learn.
Thanks

 

[GhillieBow]

Sorry to be ignorant about it, forward of center...of what?
I just started shooting a bow yesterday. Trying to learn.
Thanks

It's a factor in optimal arrow flight and penetration. Higher FOC means the arrow's balance point of the arrows is closer forward towards the point. Don't get caught up in it too much.

If you build good flying arrows your FOC will usually be in the range recommended for most uses.

 

[Tenntrapper]

It's a factor in optimal arrow flight and penetration. Higher FOC means the arrow's balance point of the arrows is closer forward towards the point. Don't get caught up in it too much.

If you build good flying arrows your FOC will usually be in the range recommended for most uses.

Thank you

 

[Harold Money jr]

The way I visualize it is, a dart is real heavy on the end. Even throwing it, it will fly pretty decent. If you put vanes on a sharpened pencil it won't fly good at all without some weight on the point end.

 

[GhillieBow]

The way I visualize it is, a dart is real heavy on the end. Even throwing it, it will fly pretty decent. If you put vanes on a sharpened pencil it won't fly good at all without some weight on the point end.

Pretty good illustration tbh.

 

[Ridgeline300]

I don't know or care about all this stuff. I grab a bow and some arrows and sharp broadheads. I couldn't tell you anything about the setup other than it's a 100gr head and pulling 70lbs. Practice enough to be sufficient with it, there are 6 dots on the front of my target and I shoot one arrow at each so I don't ruin any. Then go hunting, that simple. You could fill a photo album and then some with the deer I've killed using this primitive method!

 

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

I shoot a 430 grain 330-340 spine arrow 29" draw. Used Thunderhead 100/125 grain broadheads since the mid 1980's. Have killed and found everything I have ever shot. No issues with pass through at all. Never needed to change anything other than switching from XX75 arrows to Easton carbon arrows decades ago. FOC of 12 shooting 340 IBO Hoyt Carbon Element.

 

[Ski]

I don't know or care about all this stuff. I grab a bow and some arrows and sharp broadheads. I couldn't tell you anything about the setup other than it's a 100gr head and pulling 70lbs. Practice enough to be sufficient with it, there are 6 dots on the front of my target and I shoot one arrow at each so I don't ruin any. Then go hunting, that simple. You could fill a photo album and then some with the deer I've killed using this primitive method!

It really is that simple but folks seem to like wading deep into the weeds until it's so complicated they lose sight of the basics.

Some guys are really into the archery specific part of it and for others the bow and arrow are just another tool of the trade. The best bow hunters I've ever known couldn't tell you what a berger hole is or even care, but they knew how to get an arrow into a big old buck.

 

[tonybart55]

The most important factors for arrows would probably be perfect flight and structural integrity. Followed up by a razor sharp broadhead. If those are good to go then you have your best chance of full penetration through a deer.

With all that being said, I enjoy higher weight and higher FOC arrows mainly because I refuse to shoot past 30 yards with my compound and 20 with my traditional bows. Plus it usually makes my bows quieter and have less vibration.

 

[knightrider]

If it shoots straight and hits where you are aiming with a sharp broadhead thats all that matters

 

[Ski]

Plus it usually makes my bows quieter and have less vibration.

That is the only reason I use arrows as heavy as I do. At around 450gr the sound noticeably changes from a flink to flunk. Lighter than 450 is loud, but heavier is marginally quiteter. 450 is the goldilocks between noise and trajectory. Otherwise if it weren't so loud I'd be shooting sub 400gr.