Harvest report

[Boll Weevil]

hey may up the limit again one day

I've thought about this, and frankly how hard it might be to do.

Does bumping the limit back up say, "We thought we had an overharvest problem but in hindsight we don't? Does it say, "We weren't sure what the outcome would be but we had to try something and whaddya know IT WORKED!" Does it result in more confidence in our wildlife commissioners and decisionmakers or less?

I don't know the answer, just something to noodle.

 

[Popcorn]

^Fact.

Maybe statewide BUT locally it could be devastating. A few places each year and before you know it you have a regional decline. In some years renests are all you get! That makes them pretty important.

 

[knightrider]

I think the simple answer is killing less birds will never hurt the population. It's 1 extra turkey for you but thousands of turkeys across the state. I think its a fine trade off and if it goes well they may up the limit again one day instead of eventually being lucky to even see 3 turkeys in a season like many places.

Thousands thats not how it works

 

[Popcorn]

I've thought about this, and frankly how hard it might be to do.

Does bumping the limit up say, "We thought we had an overharvest problem but in hindsight we don't? Does it say, "We weren't sure what the outcome would be but we had to try something and whaddya know IT WORKED!" Does it result in more confidence in our wildlife commissioners and decisionmakers or less?

I don't know the answer, just something to noodle.

It's all in the eye of the beholder!
I tell my brother he would biotch if they hung him with a new rope.
On the other hand I would rent a billboard and run ads to point out that "it worked".

 

[megalomaniac]

As much as I don't think limits have a lot to do with overall population trends (or at least shouldn't)... one cannot argue the drastic population decline coincided with TWRA raising limits to 3, then to 4, especially when the vast majority of those birds killed were removed before breeding had even occurred. Turkey hunters have become incredibly effective at removing all males from a flock if they so desire (I'm 100% convinced I could have killed my nemesis bird this year just reaping him). How do we encourage ALL hunters to 'save some for seed' instead of forcing them with limits????

I've told this before, but personally, I shut a farm down to all hunting once 50% of gobblers have been killed, done this for 2 decades. Perfect example, one farm had 5 toms. A friend and I went in there the 2nd day of the season, and I killed one right off the roost and 2 hours later I called in another for my friend. That farm has been unhunted since then, and hopefully the neighbors don't kill the 3 remaining birds.

 

[BamaHudson]

The 3rd bird is neglible statewide. Most folks will shoot 1 or 2. Taking away a ton of opportunity for no real population changes for those who are avid turkey hunters.

If most folks will shoot 1 or 2 then setting the limit at 2 seems like a fine idea. For the real hunters, it really will be okay to go with one less turkey. They can still go out with someone else and help them get a bird.

 

[BamaHudson]

Thousands thats not how it works

From 2006-2020 the average birds killed a year was around 34,000.

2020: 40,105 birds killed with 90,015 hunters

The limit changed from 4 to 3 after 2020

2021: 32,703 birds killed with 91,247 hunters

2022: 29,940 birds killed with 95,905 hunters


Despite hunter numbers increasing by the thousands, birds killed has decreased by the thousands. I think this is a valid reason to believe that dropping the harvest limit will in fact limit the harvest. We don't get more turkeys by killing them.

 

[knightrider]

From 2006-2020 the average birds killed a year was around 34,000.

2020: 40,105 birds killed with 90,015 hunters

The limit changed from 4 to 3 after 2020

2021: 32,703 birds killed with 91,247 hunters

2022: 29,940 birds killed with 95,905 hunters


Despite hunter numbers increasing by the thousands, birds killed has decreased by the thousands. I think this is a valid reason to believe that dropping the harvest limit will in fact limit the harvest. We don't get more turkeys by killing them.

Really who would of thunk it 50 some percent kill one , 20 some percent kill two, cant find the exacts right off but three would be ten percent or less im just guessing so its not saving thousands is all im saying. Its not how many of the male species you kill its when and before you run loops with that statement , as in any other thing yes there is exceptions to the rule.

 

[Bgoodman30]

If most folks will shoot 1 or 2 then setting the limit at 2 seems like a fine idea. For the real hunters, it really will be okay to go with one less turkey. They can still go out with someone else and help them get a bird.

Regulating away someone's hunting opportunity for no good biological or conservation reason is a precedent I don't care for... I work hard so I can have the opportunity to hunt birds over several farms and several counties.. If I kill one on a farm I am done there...

 

[Bgoodman30]

From 2006-2020 the average birds killed a year was around 34,000.

2020: 40,105 birds killed with 90,015 hunters

The limit changed from 4 to 3 after 2020

2021: 32,703 birds killed with 91,247 hunters

2022: 29,940 birds killed with 95,905 hunters


Despite hunter numbers increasing by the thousands, birds killed has decreased by the thousands. I think this is a valid reason to believe that dropping the harvest limit will in fact limit the harvest. We don't get more turkeys by killing them.

Wow haven't seen the hunter number. I thought they couldn't track that because there is no actual turkey license or tag? If someone has a sportsman or BG license how do they know if they are turkey hunting or not?


My point is we certainly don't have a hunter recruitment or harvest problem we have a poult recruitment problem...

BUT most hunters reporting a great hatch last 2 in spite of a large harvest.

 

[BamaHudson]

Really who would of thunk it 50 some percent kill one , 20 some percent kill two, cant find the exacts right off but three would be ten percent or less im just guessing so its not saving thousands is all im saying. Its not how many of the male species you kill its when and before you run loops with that statement , as in any other thing yes there is exceptions to the rule.

I get what you're saying and I don't think its crazy to think that at all but I'm just saying we also have to account for the increase in hunters when it comes to running those averages on birds killed. And it seems like there's more folks turkey hunting lately.

As far as it being a matter of when you kill the turkey, I'd say the more turkeys left over from the year before, the more turkeys can breed each season. I do see your point, just to be clear, and you very well could be right. I'm not known for being the smartest guy around so we should keep that in mind

 

[Bgoodman30]

Really who would of thunk it 50 some percent kill one , 20 some percent kill two, cant find the exacts right off but three would be ten percent or less im just guessing so its not saving thousands is all im saying. Its not how many of the male species you kill its when and before you run loops with that statement , as in any other thing yes there is exceptions to the rule.

I ran the numbers once back in the 4 bird days. I think the hunters that achieved 4 birds were very small percentage like 5%.

 

[BamaHudson]

Wow haven't seen the hunter number. I thought they couldn't track that because there is no actual turkey license or tag? If someone has a sportsman or BG license how do they know if they are turkey hunting or not?


My point is we certainly don't have a hunter recruitment or harvest problem we have a poult recruitment problem...

BUT most hunters reporting a great hatch last 2 in spite of a large harvest.

I reckon they started tracking it more lately due to conservation efforts across the US cause I hadn't seen hunter numbers with it before either. You are right about the good hatches lately, just gotta give it time to settle out across the state since some areas had really been hurting. I'm good for taking the cautious side with it just cause it is real hard to get them back once they are gone and some states used to have them all over the place and now hardly have any.

 

[th88]

Cutting the limit from 3 to 2 birds doesn't save as many gobblers as some people think it would. The turkey is still vulnerable to harvest by another hunter, or even THE SAME hunter (through taking someone). Although not near as high as with hens, adult gobblers still experience natural mortality. And like previously stated, the percentage of hunters who actually killed 3 birds is extremely small. You spread those few gobblers saved across the entire landscape of TN, it is literally a single drop in the bucket.

#1 killer of turkey is opportunity. If the state wanted to save more turkey, they should have NOT added those 2 weeks to the end of the season. They could have saved more adult gobblers by keeping the mid-may closer rather than reducing the limit. And who knows, there could be potential negative impacts having hunters still romping around the woods at the end of May when hatching and brood rearing starts.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Cutting the limit from 3 to 2 birds doesn't save as many gobblers as some people think it would. The turkey is still vulnerable to harvest by another hunter, or even THE SAME hunter (through taking someone). Although not near as high as with hens, adult gobblers still experience natural mortality. And like previously stated, the percentage of hunters who actually killed 3 birds is extremely small. You spread those few gobblers saved across the entire landscape of TN, it is literally a single drop in the bucket.

#1 killer of turkey is opportunity. If the state wanted to save more turkey, they should have NOT added those 2 weeks to the end of the season. They could have saved more adult gobblers by keeping the mid-may closer rather than reducing the limit. And who knows, there could be potential negative impacts having hunters still romping around the woods at the end of May when hatching and brood rearing starts.

100% . I doubt there will be many hunters out those last 2 weeks. Most casual hunters I know have pretty much hung it up and most avid hunters I know should be limited out by then.. Even if I had a tag I don't think I would be go late May.

 

[megalomaniac]

I think the 'big picture' turkey hunting experience is more about the hunt rather than the kill for most of us....

For example, I would gladly have traded my month of turkey hunting season in MS for just a weekend on my TN farms because of the quality of the hunts (hearing multiple gobblers every day vs hearing only one in a month of hunting here in MS).

While in my mind there is NO QUESTION there is a biological benefit to delaying season by 2 weeks, there is a question in my mind whether the quality of the hunt itself is improved or reduced by the 2 week delay statewide. The baiters are hurt by a 2 week delay, the reapers are hurt by a 2 week delay... I dont care about their satisfaction... but I do wonder whether the folks in west TN have a worsened hunting experience with the delay. If nest initiation data proves hens breed 2 weeks earlier in west TN than those in middle TN, I would have no problem with TN going to zones or units that open in staggered fashion....

But for middle TN, the 2 wk delay has been a complete boon BOTH for quality of hunting as well as from a biological standpoint allowing hens to breed before toms are killed.

As far as the last couple days of the season (late May) in TN... I have no idea... but I still have a tag left, so I'm going to hunt it just from a 'life experience' standpoint. Will let you guys know how it goes!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

It seems most agree the 2 week delay in the opener is beneficial, but the new harvest number of 2 is in question. I've been on both ends of the spectrum killing 0 and killing 3 or 4 a year.

These changes take time to see trends. What I do know is our population has dropped drastically the last 5 years. Don't jump to conclusions. I think most of us are saying the same things…..the delayed opener WILL help to initiate GOOD nests, but the limit is debatable. Personally, I'm ok with 2 or 3. I've seen more lonesome hens that has seemed to have nested than I have ever seen. That seems like a positive to me.

Yea we may only see 2 weeks of awesome hunting, and then it's dead. BUT I'm willing to have that sacrifice for the overall flock.

If this expands the overall flock in 5 years, I'm all for it and THEN we can maybe adjust the limit. Time will tell.

 

[Popcorn]

All of the landowners, family members and guests on the farms I take care of, that wanted to turkey hunt have harvested a gobbler this season. I went last weekend as a caller for a guest and I had a blast calling in a gobbler for him. 8 took a single bird and were done, 2 will continue to hunt and now that everyone has gotten a bird, this weekend is my turn as is next weekend.
I had more fun calling one up for a guest than I get from taking my own bird, I may or may not take 2, or maybe one each in TN and KY.
For me it's the quality of the experience not the quantity killed. Cutting the limit was absolutely the right thing to do, there is no legitimate reason to not cut it to 2

 

[PalsPal]

I reckon they started tracking it more lately due to conservation efforts across the US cause I hadn't seen hunter numbers with it before either.

Where did you see hunter numbers, because there is NO WAY to track it?

The only thing they can track is license holders, which includes toddlers through seniors who have a license but never turkey hunt.

 

[BamaHudson]

Where did you see hunter numbers, because there is NO WAY to track it?

The only thing they can track is license holders, which includes toddlers through seniors who have a license but never turkey hunt.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/twra/documents/hunting/wild-turkey/Wild-Turkey-Status-Report_2022.pdf