Finally, trees hitting the ground

[BSK]

BSK, request, could we get some pics? Befores if possible, and afters for sure. Id like to see what you are having them leave it looking like. Do you have pics of any areas that were cut like this say 3 years ago? Thanks and good luck.

Although these pictures (summer and winter) were taken a few years ago, neither area has changed since then, and both are very close to areas that are being cut (one area being cut is just to the right of the area shown in the summer-time picture). So these would be very representative "before" pictures:

I'll get some "during" and "just after" pictures.

At 3 years of regrowth, expect to see what you would have in a power-line right-of-way that hasn't been bush-hogged in a couple of years--a waist to chest-high tangle of saplings, weeds, grasses and black-berry briers.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Roughly how many "seed trees" do you plan on having left per acre after the cuts are done? I was thinking I would leave some of the larger oaks (30" plus DBH) in my seed tree cut area because they would put off the most acorns. But I see your leaving 12" and under, is there a reason leaving the smaller oaks works better? Thanks

 

[BSK]

Roughly how many "seed trees" do you plan on having left per acre after the cuts are done? I was thinking I would leave some of the larger oaks (30" plus DBH) in my seed tree cut area because they would put off the most acorns. But I see your leaving 12" and under, is there a reason leaving the smaller oaks works better? Thanks

We're not attempting to produce any particular basal area left standing. We're just trying to maximize sunlight on the ground while still having acorn production for oak regeneration. In addition, I hope to produce very "spotty" habitat in the cuts to maximize habitat diversity (a grove of trees left standing here and there in the cuts instead of single, individual trees).

A few mature oaks left standing would work better for acorn production, but those are also the "high dollar" trees at the mill. Since we're asking the loggers to cut in strange patterns (little scattered cuts instead of one big cut) we want to keep them happy as well (high monetary return for everyone involved).

 

[String Music]

If you had the option to hinge cut the trees, would you do that instead of completely removing them?

 

[BSK]

If you had the option to hinge cut the trees, would you do that instead of completely removing them?

No, because instead of hardwood regrowth, I would like to maximize weeds and legumes as much as possible. Cutting to stump slows down sapling production by a year or so.

Now if I was just cutting "little patch" (less than an acre) to produce cover quickly, yes I would hinge-cut. But I want to maximize natural food production for as long as possible before it becomes cover.

 

[BSK]

Honestly, if it were feasible, I would love to take half of these cuts and burn them on a three-year rotation. That would keep them in maximum food production forever. However, trying to perscribe burn super-steep hillsides, without the ability to make and maintain good firebreaks, is a scary proposition. Hillside burns have a way of really getting out of control once they start generating their own thermal winds.

The hillsides I'm having cut are so steep the loggers aren't using log-skidders to retreive the trees. They are backing down the hill with a bulldozer and cabling the trees out. A skidder at the top of the hill then drags the trees to the loading deck.

 

[Football Hunter]

thats great.your making a poke salad bed,or beds!

 

[BSK]

One thing I may attempt is spraying patches of the regrowth--those areas with the least oak regeneration--with Arsenal. This will restart the hardwood regrowth process in those patches. Spraying in patches would also increase habitat diversity.

 

[Boone 58]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[BowGuy84]

Thanks for the pic BSK. Looking forward to seeing the rest. Guess Im not clear on what Arsenal does and how that would start hardwood regrowth sooner...would it limit competition of weeds and briars to get hardwoods up and running sooner?

 

[BSK]

Thanks for the pic BSK. Looking forward to seeing the rest. Guess Im not clear on what Arsenal does and how that would start hardwood regrowth sooner...would it limit competition of weeds and briars to get hardwoods up and running sooner?

Actually, Arsenal does just the opposite. It kills hardwoods but promotes natural food sources such as weeds, legumes, blackberries, etc.

The one downside to using purely natural hardwood regeneration for food and cover production is that hardwood saplings quickly grow so tall that they block sunlight from the ground and reduce early succession food production (weeds, legumes, etc.). This will occur in only 3-5 years after timber removal, depending on sun aspect and soil moisture. Now this does convert the area to good cover habitat quickly, but the food production value is lost. By spraying some of the sapling regeneration with Arsenal you kill back the hardwoods and allow food production to continue for several more years. And by spraying in patches you will also increase habitat diversity (break the area up into lots of little patches of different types of habitat). My research on the value of habitat diversity to the hunter strongly suggests that high habitat diversity values equates to higher deer sightings by hunters.

 

[Jarred525]

Thanks for the pic BSK. Looking forward to seeing the rest. Guess Im not clear on what Arsenal does and how that would start hardwood regrowth sooner...would it limit competition of weeds and briars to get hardwoods up and running sooner?

Actually, Arsenal does just the opposite. It kills hardwoods but promotes natural food sources such as weeds, legumes, blackberries, etc.

The one downside to using purely natural hardwood regeneration for food and cover production is that hardwood saplings quickly grow so tall that they block sunlight from the ground and reduce early succession food production (weeds, legumes, etc.). This will occur in only 3-5 years after timber removal, depending on sun aspect and soil moisture. Now this does convert the area to good cover habitat quickly, but the food production value is lost. By spraying some of the sapling regeneration with Arsenal you kill back the hardwoods and allow food production to continue for several more years. And by spraying in patches you will also increase habitat diversity (break the area up into lots of little patches of different types of habitat). My research on the value of habitat diversity to the hunter strongly suggests that high habitat diversity values equates to higher deer sightings by hunters.

Good info BSK. I plan on doing a wide variety of things in my clearcuts. Dad and I cruised the land this weekend and decided on 18 acres of clearcut and 2 acres of select cut (an area with decent size red and white oak for a bowspot). I have another neighbor on board for a 10 acre clearcut and another neighbor on board for a select cut of mature poplar and ash on his 40 acres. Feel confident this will be plenty to entice a logger. Good thing is that these areas are all close and we have a good site for the loading area (right off a good dirt road from the highway) Calling a guy today that I got a good reference on to see if he is interested.

Once the cut is done, my plan is to put about 10 to 12 acres in pine in 2 different areas (2 6 acre areas) tha do not have a lot of oak and leave the rest to let the oak areas regenerate. I may try the Arsenal in some patches later down the road (good idea). I also plan on hack and squirt for the non beneficial small trees that get left behind from the clearcut.

Lots of work but I am very excited.

 

[Boone 58]

Awesome!

 

[BSK]

Jarred525,

One of the great things about Arsenal is it can be sprayed right over young pines without harm. In fact, that was what the herbicide was designed for--reducing hardwood sapling competition in industrial pine plantations. It has since been improved to enhance forage production for wildlife while still providing the orginal benefit of helping pine production.

I would spray your young pine plantations in late summer/early fall (late September is best) the second year after they are planted.

 

[String Music]

Where do you purchase Arsenal?

 

[BSK]

Find BASF's website. I'll bet the have a distributors' listing.

 

[MickThompson]

BSK, have you thought about Garlon? Arsenal is generally not recommended in hardwoods because it is soil-active and may injure the residual overstory.

 

[Jarred525]

Find BASF's website. I'll bet the have a distributors' listing.

Yep, you can call any of the sales POC's and they will take your order for you and ship it to your door. I purchased some last year for hack and squirt. It works really well.

 

[Jarred525]

Jarred525,

One of the great things about Arsenal is it can be sprayed right over young pines without harm. In fact, that was what the herbicide was designed for--reducing hardwood sapling competition in industrial pine plantations. It has since been improved to enhance forage production for wildlife while still providing the orginal benefit of helping pine production.

I would spray your young pine plantations in late summer/early fall (late September is best) the second year after they are planted.

Thanks, the main thing I am concerned about with my pine planting is access to the pines for spraying. The guy who plants them will plant them without having to move treetops. Then you have stumps scattered around, etc... Not sure what I would do?

 

[BSK]

BSK, have you thought about Garlon? Arsenal is generally not recommended in hardwoods because it is soil-active and may injure the residual overstory.

And that's why I would never use it around standing timber. I will only use it in clear-cut areas where I don't want the hardwood saplings to survive (convert the area to "natural food plot"). And then I will eave a "buffer" around the edges to prevent root transfer to standing timber.