Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hunt?

[Mtn Hunter]

I just don't understand TWRA anymore. In my recent TN Game & Fish magazine from last week, there was a short article about last year's deer harvest being down. Said it was the lowest recorded harvest in 10 years. The reason for the low harvest.....wait till you read this.......as quoted in the article by wildlife managers-- "attributed to extremely warm weather during the muzzleloader season, and that hunters do not go out since it is difficult to properly care for their kill." REALLY.....that makes no since at all. They blame the weather every year if the deer or turkey harvest is down. Yeah it was a little warm last year at times but to say that is crazy. So I guess what that article is saying is that archery hunters know how to properly care for their kill since it can be very warm during Sept. and Oct. but that muzzleloader hunters don't know how to care for their kill when its warm so they don't hunt at all??????? I'd say most archery hunters hunt muzzleloader as well. In my opinion, I think a better explanation for the low deer harvest during the warm muzzleloader season could have been due to a lack of deer movement, not a lack of deer hunters in the woods.

So with that being said, does TWRA really expect many hunters to turn out for a late August velvet hunt when it's 95 degrees outside? Going by their reasoning, there will be very few hunters out in the field because they won't know how to properly care for their kill. Oh, I'm sorry, the archery hunters know how to care for their kill. It's the muzzleloader hunters that don't know what to do.

I guess I'll never totally understand TWRA. Don't get me wrong, I've met some really great TWRA officers before, but this article just made me laugh out loud.

 

[MickThompson]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

You need to understand the difference between TWRA and the commission. The commission passed the velvet hunt against the advice of the agency.


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[rem270]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I think it's going to be a huge turnout myself. I don't live or hunt TN but if I did I would hunt it for sure. It's not going to be that much hotter than it will just a month later when the opening day of bow season is.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I think it's going to be a huge turnout myself.

Starting to look that way.
And, unfortunately or fortunately, may be more non-residents participating than residents.
Seems to be a larger group of non-resident archery hunters excited about this than resident TN deer hunters.

 

[rem270]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I think it's going to be a huge turnout myself.

Starting to look that way.
And, unfortunately or fortunately, may be more non-residents participating than residents.
Seems to be a larger group of non-resident archery hunters excited about this than resident TN deer hunters.

With 60 days of gun I can see why some residents sit back and wait until cooler weather and a bang stick in hand. I like early season hunting along with late October, then the rut so I don't think I could sit out til rifle but do see why some do.

 

[farmin68]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

The warm weather logic during mz season actually makes a lot of sense.

In before Bambi Buster.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

With 60 days of gun I can see why some residents sit back and wait until cooler weather and a bang stick in hand.

The vast majority of TN's deer hunters do not archery deer hunt, so it's more than just "some".

Just a tiny sub-set of TN's deer hunters are "excited" about this new opportunity.
Most of TN's hunters (particularly the juvenile ones) are actually harmed by it because it reduces their opportunities.
The greatest benefit of this is going to avid archery-hunting non-residents with deep pockets.

As I've stated in other threads, I'm not totally opposed to this velvet hunt,
but there should have been some other issues (as offsets) along with it.
Without those offsets, it has the appearance of just another political catering to special interests (mainly the more avid archery-only hunters).

Bottom line:

This change will significantly increase the archery buck harvest,
which parleys into less opportunities for the majority of hunters who didn't want this summertime bow hunt.

This includes that this same weekend is the opening weekend of squirrel season,
which has traditionally been THE most significant hunting introduction for both juveniles and adults who have never before hunted.
(No license required) "Free" Hunting Day this year is Saturday, August 25, 2018.

So, this new deer hunt will reduce small-game hunting opportunities, as many small-game hunters will choose to avoid conflicts with deer hunters.
A reasonable "offset" could have been simply delaying the opening of the regular archery deer season (by at least a week)?

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I think it's going to be a huge turnout myself.

Starting to look that way.
And, unfortunately or fortunately, may be more non-residents participating than residents.
Seems to be a larger group of non-resident archery hunters excited about this than resident TN deer hunters.

I'm super happy about it and will be out there. Every year I run trail cams, and every year, on my private property the bachelor group of bucks I have is out every morning especially in one area and then when the velvet sheds, they're gone or they start moving at night. Then they don't move in day light (most years) until the rut (at least not from what I see on camera). They use my land as their summer hang out. Being able to go shoot one in the early am hours in August may be just what I needed to get one of these jokers. It will be in the 70's in the am most likely, so it won't be much worse than normal. I can only hunt one time per day, with family obligations, and knowing they use my property more in the AM makes my decision easy, so I guess i will not be out in the 95+ degree weather, but I will be out there at least Sat/Sun and depending on what I am seeing, I may take the week day that is in there off (I think it is a 3 day hunt).

As for why deer harvest are down, I would say weather plays a part on deer movement, and the antler change (3" rule, which is now back...) may have played in on that too. Also we had a bumper crop of acorns, so it did reduce deer movement, but I have seen nothing to suggest our deer herd is in any danger and we could go back to a 3 buck limit and it would not hurt a thing. The 3 doe a day thing doesn't hurt either. Most folks don't shoot 3 bucks a season, and most don't shoot 3 does n a day.

The ones that are mad about this, don't bow hunt, or won't bow hunt when it is hot. Now they are mad, because they folks that do bow hunt or tough it out, get an opportunity they don't or won't take. Same argument every year from the "any weapon, all year long" crowd.

 

[rem270]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

With 60 days of gun I can see why some residents sit back and wait until cooler weather and a bang stick in hand.

The vast majority of TN's deer hunters do not archery deer hunt, so it's more than just "some".

Just a tiny sub-set of TN's deer hunters are "excited" about this new opportunity.
Most of TN's hunters (particularly the juvenile ones) are actually harmed by it because it reduces their opportunities.
The greatest benefit of this is going to avid archery-hunting non-residents with deep pockets.

As I've stated in other threads, I'm not totally opposed to this velvet hunt,
but there should have been some other issues (as offsets) along with it.
Without those offsets, it has the appearance of just another political catering to special interests (mainly the more avid archery-only hunters).

Bottom line:

This change will significantly increase the archery buck harvest,
which parleys into less opportunities for the majority of hunters who didn't want this summertime bow hunt.

This includes that this same weekend is the opening weekend of squirrel season,
which has traditionally been THE most significant hunting introduction for both juveniles and adults who have never before hunted.
(No license required) "Free" Hunting Day this year is Saturday, August 25, 2018.

So, this new deer hunt will reduce small-game hunting opportunities, as many small-game hunters will choose to avoid conflicts with deer hunters.
A reasonable "offset" could have been simply delaying the opening of the regular archery deer season (by at least a week)?

I can definitely see the pros and cons for it and see both sides of it.

KY proposed a late September doe only gun hunt, I would vote for adopting TN's "velvet" hunt over that for sure. Now the one KY proposed I am 100% against. I know it's off topic lol but I know you keep up with both.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

The ones that are mad about this, don't bow hunt, or won't bow hunt when it is hot. Now they are mad, because they folks that do bow hunt or tough it out, get an opportunity they don't or won't take.

I don't think many are "mad" about it,
so much as they're questioning why it happened, and just who is benefiting, at whom's expense.

There was little opportunity for any discussion of the potential pros & cons of such a significant change.

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

With 60 days of gun I can see why some residents sit back and wait until cooler weather and a bang stick in hand.

The vast majority of TN's deer hunters do not archery deer hunt, so it's more than just "some".

Just a tiny sub-set of TN's deer hunters are "excited" about this new opportunity.
Most of TN's hunters (particularly the juvenile ones) are actually harmed by it because it reduces their opportunities.
The greatest benefit of this is going to avid archery-hunting non-residents with deep pockets.

As I've stated in other threads, I'm not totally opposed to this velvet hunt,
but there should have been some other issues (as offsets) along with it.
Without those offsets, it has the appearance of just another political catering to special interests (mainly the more avid archery-only hunters).

Bottom line:

This change will significantly increase the archery buck harvest,
which parleys into less opportunities for the majority of hunters who didn't want this summertime bow hunt.

This includes that this same weekend is the opening weekend of squirrel season,
which has traditionally been THE most significant hunting introduction for both juveniles and adults who have never before hunted.
(No license required) "Free" Hunting Day this year is Saturday, August 25, 2018.

So, this new deer hunt will reduce small-game hunting opportunities, as many small-game hunters will choose to avoid conflicts with deer hunters.
A reasonable "offset" could have been simply delaying the opening of the regular archery deer season (by at least a week)?

I can see this side of the argument, but there are a few things that it probably won't effect as much as you think.

1 i doubt the kills will be astronomical. Though I would love to see them say, no non residents. . I also doubt it will interfere with squirrel hunters, because if you are on private land, you will probably be making the choice between this or that. Also on public, the squirrel hunters don't care about bow hunter conflict. I have had to yell to a couple of squirrel hunters on Percy to let them know I was in the area.

I do see where it could be conceived as lesser opportunities for this group or that, but it will be hard to quantify that.

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I don't think many are "mad" about it, so much as they're questioning why it happened, and just who is benefiting, at whom's expense.

There are folks mad about it and I think the OP is angry about it, but I may be wrong. I don't know how you can say it is at the expense of anyone? I see it as a new opportunity.

There was little opportunity for any discussion of the potential pros & cons of such a significant change.

That I agree with. I never heard of the proposal, and thought it was a joke when someone posted in on FB.

Again I'm happy about it, but I am hunting my property and my neighbors don't hunt as avidly as I do anyway, so I don't see it as me taking anything from them, but that is just my perspective.

 

[MUP]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I just read where someone referenced in another thread that this "velvet" hunt is only going to be allowed on private land. If so, wouldn't this stifle the non resident factor a bit? Or would they just get around it by hunting on leases?

 

[kentuckylakebuck]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

AGAIN, deer harvest numbers are down due to DEPREDATION PERMITS, not weather or less hunters or any other manufactured twra excuses, the insurance companies sway twra to write depredation permits and keep liberal limits, thus keeping the population down! thats the reason for low harvest numbers, not the weather!

 

[TN Whitetail Freak]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

I bought my Ky license to have that early season and they pass this lol oh well,

 

[Hunter 257W]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

The steamy hot opening weekends for both ML and Rifle last year definitely affected deer kill numbers. A LOT of hunters didn't go those days or didn't stay all day. Since those two weekends account fur such a huge % of the total harvest, anytime you impact the kills for those key days it makes a real difference.

It was 80 degrees on Nov 4, 2017 Opening day of ML season. 70 degrees and stormy all day Nov 18 for Rifle Opener. One of my blinds got blown all over the woods and busted up that day in fact. A lot of people sat out both key days for deer kill numbers including yours truly.

 

[Andy S.]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

Bottom line:

This change will significantly increase the archery buck harvest.....

I'm not sure I believe this unless the majority of hunters "who are excited about this hunt" have plans to shoot any buck that walks by. That may be the case for some, but for me, the velvet buck is going to have to be either very unique, or about 10" bigger than what I typically look for with hard antler in order for me to pull the trigger. I know the areas I hunt and my self imposed restrictions equate to only a handful of deer that I would even consider shooting at, much less the fact they could smell/bust me, and me making the shot if presented the opportunity. A lot of stars will have to align for me to pull the trigger. The ONLY reason I would fling an arrow is to shoot a stud of a velvet buck to go on the wall, and then I would be sick when I had to take out a loan to mount it. Do others really want to shoot a velvet 4 point? Maybe so, but I just cannot see that many hunters braving the heat, humidity, gnats and mosquitoes to shoot a young buck, with no intentions of mounting it. Once shot, and recovered, any buck instantly turns into a lot of work that must be done by themselves and in short order, due to the weather and lack of deer processors available that time of year.

For reference, we killed 3,830 bucks last year across the entire state during archery, Sep. 23 - Oct. 27. That equates to about 40 bucks per county during archery season, with a select few counties killing 100-125 during archery.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

Andy, don't overlook the "wild card" of new non-resident hunters this brings in.
Just look what has happened in KY.

And if they buy a non-resident license (mainly motivated by the early 3-day velvet hunt)
they will likely utilize that "investment" later as well.

Also, many of those current non-resident license purchasers who have been coming to TN,
have been doing much of their archery deer hunting elsewhere.
But this year, tell me any other state that has an archery deer hunt in August?

 

[AT Hiker]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

But this year, tell me any other state that has an archery deer hunt in August?

For whitetails Florida used to have a crazy July opener in one of their zones, South Carolina has a August opener and Idaho used too.
Lots Western states for mule/black tails and some Pronghorn[emoji14]


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[cecil30-30]

Re: Deer harvest down...really TWRA? So give us a velvet hu

Last year's low harvest was due to EHD in east tn. Take scott county for instance, last year's harvest was something like 1100, this year I don't think they broke 500. And they was consistently having a harvest of 1000+ animals over the past several season.

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