Big changes from the meeting today

tellico4x4

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Killen, AL
Meanwhile, the #1 single factor in turkey predation goes unaddressed.
Talking about predation by hawks, owls, eagles, and yes, even crows.
Although I don't believe there is anything TWRA could do about this
any more than they could change the weather.

This same factor (raptor predation) may have been the #1 single factor in the now near extinction of
statewide bobwhite quail. It is the only single uniform factor on a statewide basis.


Good Point, Worth Repeating.
Until we hit full extinction, it always could have been worse if . . . . . . . . . .
I remember hunting pheasants decades ago in SD where every single hawk seen got blasted at. Outfitters promoted it during the pre hunt meeting. If someone saw a hawk sitting on a power line, they would stop vehicle & take a shot at. Legal or not it was war on raptors. Now, SD has the most aggressive bounty program on varmints of any state I know of to cutdown on nest raiders. If I remember correctly, even a possum is worth $5.00.
 

TheLBLman

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I remember hunting pheasants decades ago in SD where every single hawk seen got blasted at. Outfitters promoted it during the pre hunt meeting. If someone saw a hawk sitting on a power line, they would stop vehicle & take a shot at. Legal or not it was war on raptors.

In my younger days, I believe the majority of hunters in TN would immediately shoot any hawk or owl for which the opportunity presented. Why? Because so many people back then had chickens, and hawks & owls would kill their chickens.

At some point, federal agents stepped up the game about enforcing the laws against killing "federal" birds. As the hawk population soared, the quail population steadily declined. Not just because of the hawks, as "clean" farming, etc., and many other factors were at play, most of which also had the consequence of making these birds more easily seen & caught by hawks. Today, the Cooper's hawk may be the #1 predator of young turkey poults during their 1st few weeks of life.
 

rem270

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Lots of people arguing here and getting nowhere with each other. I'm gonna hunt when season opens and be happy to be out there. I understand the moving it back 2 weeks but kind of stupid to let it go til towards the end of May. They did that just to say they didn't take any of the season away. I hope I'm not hunting that late in the season, heck in some places poults will already be walking around.

Selfishly I liked the start early April because me literally living on the state line of TN and KY it gave me a jump start before Ky opened. Now I'll just have to pick which state to hunt opening day because they'll open the same day now.
 

TheLBLman

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I understand the moving it back 2 weeks but kind of stupid to let it go til towards the end of May. They did that just to say they didn't take any of the season away.
I think it's more of little consequence than stupid.
You are correct that they did this just to say the season would remain the same number of days.

But if they had left the season closing date unchanged (reducing the 6 week season to a 4 week season), that reduction would have been a major "headline" creating yet even more anger at the TWRA? Maybe even more stupid to have not added the weeks on the back end then?

The real regulatory issue is how to be most effective, in reducing the amount of collective turkey killing, while causing the least grief among hunters?
 

Hduke86

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Lots of people arguing here and getting nowhere with each other. I'm gonna hunt when season opens and be happy to be out there. I understand the moving it back 2 weeks but kind of stupid to let it go til towards the end of May. They did that just to say they didn't take any of the season away. I hope I'm not hunting that late in the season, heck in some places poults will already be walking around.

Selfishly I liked the start early April because me literally living on the state line of TN and KY it gave me a jump start before Ky opened. Now I'll just have to pick which state to hunt opening day because they'll open the same day now.
You are selfish so just stay in Kentucky and do the great state of Tennessee a favor.
 

tickweed

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I've turkey hunted since the early seventies, many states, volunteered 32 yrs with the NWTF. I remember when we had no birds at all to speak of other than Anderson tully, LBL. Then l watched them slowly expand. Grow. The old sport of Turkey hunting is long gone. Better shells, longer kill ranges, decoys. Fanning. Reaping. Better camo. Pop up blinds. I never thought Tn. Should have had a four bird, six week long, all day season. Look at Missouri, at one time one of the top states, 2 weeks, 2 birds. 1pm cut off. Not anymore. I applaud TWRA for finally making a move, moving the starting date later, reducing the limit. I wish they would have left the closing date as was. I will say this, l had a lease in Dickson county years ago. A dairy farm, nothing to hear 15 gobblers a morning. Nothing to drive over county, see stutters in every field. Within one yr we went from seeing groups of 300 in the fall, to hardly any. Every since, seems all southern states populations are falling. Predation is a big factor, but that's not what had happened in such a short span. There is way more happing than predators, limits, fanning. All of these factors hurt, but something really knocked the populations back , way to fast. I still feel disease is all it could be, to reduce populations that fast. And they havent recovered, add the above factors, it just really hurts.
 

TheLBLman

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What you described on your Dickson Co. diary farm was typical to what many have experienced across TN, but in different counties, different parts of different counties, and most significantly, in different years! Even more baffling, in some cases, flocks were rapidly declining in a part of one county, while rapidly expanding only a few miles away in that same county.

To me, this sounds more like a more localized "perfect storm" of all factors going against the turkeys much more in the same year or two. And, with the trending towards the factors being worse (such as TN increasing the limit from 2 to 3, then from 3 to 4), the once robust flocks simply haven't been able to recover, or sustain a significant recovery.

Predation is a big factor, but that's not what had happened in such a short span. There is way more happing than predators, limits, fanning. All of these factors hurt, but something really knocked the populations back , way to fast. I still feel disease is all it could be, to reduce populations that fast. And they havent recovered, add the above factors, it just really hurts.

I do believe a big part of the "disease" equation has been aflatoxin corn, which has been steadily killing more turkeys as more feeders have been placed, more "deer corn" fed. Much of this has coincided with the rapid increase in use of trail cams. While trail cams are absolutely not the problem, they have greatly increased the use of the cheapest corn people could find to help get more pictures.
 

Popcorn

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Back in the mid 90s I attended a turkey hunting seminar at Cherokee High School and a biologist with TWRA was answering questions on stage. One question was how soon after stocking turkeys can you start hunting them. His answer was the same season because most hens have already been bred by the time season opens. Another question was about spooking hens off the nest. His answer was spook them once and 60% of the time they won't return. Spook them twice and 100% no return. While I can't say yeah or nay from my own experience it does come from some one more educated to the subject than myself.
Not to be argumentative but I would have to disagree with this!
All of it.
Early season openers see many birds segregated in groups and have not exhibited any breeding activities. Also late hatch hens may not have reached breeding maturity or be receptive to a 20 pound male dancing on her back cause she has not moved her tail. Not all mountings are successful and a male can only service a limited number of females in a given period. Additionally hunting freshly stocked birds leaves the possibility of nothing but immature jakes to breed next spring.
On flushing a hen from a nest, there is little difference between you flushing a hen and a deer or predator. If the nest remains undisturbed she will likely revisit it. If she was traumatized like flying into a tractor or rolled by an implement then no she is not coming back. We have no idea how many hens die because they will not give up the nest in tha last week of setting! Nests, eggs and experienced hens are more tough than we know.
I can tell you that messing with a nest will reveal it by your scent to a predator.
 

Jbird22

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MS
the real question is how bad would Arkansas be now if they had NOT implemented any changes a few years ago.
I posted a reply earlier today that included a YouTube Arkansas resident's (wildlife biology background) take in the situation but it says it needs moderator approval before it's visible to the public.

Search "Will turkey hunting in Arkansas ever be the same, or even decent again?" ... It's well worth the watch IMO.

The answer to your question would be nothing more than speculation. But what we do know is that with the season structure and bag limit changes, the situation in Arkansas has not improved. It tells me that there's more to the equation, much more honestly.
 
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megalomaniac

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I posted a reply earlier today that included a YouTube Arkansas resident's (wildlife biology background) take in the situation but it says it needs moderator approval before it's visible to the public.

Search "Will turkey hunting in Arkansas ever be the same, or even decent again?" ... It's well worth the watch IMO.

The answer to your question would be nothing more than speculation. But what we do know is that with the season structure and bag limit changes, the situation in Arkansas has not improved. It tells me that there's more to the equation, much more honestly.
Absolutely, agreed 100%. Arkansas is no better, just pure speculation on my part it would be even worse without the changes.

Same thing seen on the handful of MS WMAs that went to a delayed season opener to April 1st a few years ago.... Terrible populations, delaying season opening didn't help, still terrible populations. Not much else to try other than closing season altogether.

That being said, it just doesn't make much sense to take half the seasons gobbler kill BEFORE hens have been bred in TN.

(Average nest initiation statewide in TN is week of May 10th. Back up 8 to 10 days before that for breeding)
 

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poorhunter

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I've turkey hunted since the early seventies, many states, volunteered 32 yrs with the NWTF. I remember when we had no birds at all to speak of other than Anderson tully, LBL. Then l watched them slowly expand. Grow. The old sport of Turkey hunting is long gone. Better shells, longer kill ranges, decoys. Fanning. Reaping. Better camo. Pop up blinds. I never thought Tn. Should have had a four bird, six week long, all day season. Look at Missouri, at one time one of the top states, 2 weeks, 2 birds. 1pm cut off. Not anymore. I applaud TWRA for finally making a move, moving the starting date later, reducing the limit. I wish they would have left the closing date as was. I will say this, l had a lease in Dickson county years ago. A dairy farm, nothing to hear 15 gobblers a morning. Nothing to drive over county, see stutters in every field. Within one yr we went from seeing groups of 300 in the fall, to hardly any. Every since, seems all southern states populations are falling. Predation is a big factor, but that's not what had happened in such a short span. There is way more happing than predators, limits, fanning. All of these factors hurt, but something really knocked the populations back , way to fast. I still feel disease is all it could be, to reduce populations that fast. And they havent recovered, add the above factors, it just really hurts.
Exactly what I witnessed some 6-7 years ago here in Hickman. Over night the population dropped to nothing and with everything else stacked against them they couldn't recover. I tried talking to as many of the guys that hunt leases around me, but even though they saw the decline they changed not one thing until this spring. Not one hunter did I see on any of the leases for the first two week of the season. I guess after a few years of hearing next to no gobbles they got it.
 

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