Over-hunting stands

[Andy S.]

BSK - is this the same data referenced in your "Hunt the Bright Spots" article? I have it and "Rub Lines and Habitat Plans" saved to my PC in Adobe PDF format.

 

[Andy S.]

I think it's property specific, as well as, all the variable circumstances on surrounding properties. Most all of our bucks are killed in the morning.

Concur. With that said, me and my closest buds log FAR MORE hours on stand in the morning, especially during pre-rut and rut. Early and late season see more afternoon hours logged as that is when we see the most deer activity.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Concur. With that said, me and my closest buds log FAR MORE hours on stand in the morning, especially during pre-rut and rut. Early and late season see more afternoon hours logged as that is when we see the most deer activity.

Glad you mentioned that. The early season definitely gets hunted more and harder in the evenings. Same for late season - it's all about food during those two time periods

 

[BSK]

I have found that on my place the hunting of mature bucks got so much better and the odds increased to my favor by eliminating morning hunting.we don't hunt near as much as the past and kill two of the top end of the top 4 bucks that we know exist consistently each year

That's fascinating. What do you believe the problem with morning hunting was?

 

[BSK]

BSK - is this the same data referenced in your "Hunt the Bright Spots" article? I have it and "Rub Lines and Habitat Plans" saved to my PC in Adobe PDF format.

That's it!

 

[redblood]

Concur. With that said, me and my closest buds log FAR MORE hours on stand in the morning, especially during pre-rut and rut. Early and late season see more afternoon hours logged as that is when we see the most deer activity.

same for me. im just not a big afternoon hunter

 

[BSK]

What I find fascinating is how our morning vs evening data changed dramatically once we started to alter the habitat. Back before we had cut our first timber, and the property was 90% big hardwoods, we saw far more bucks in the mornings than the evenings, and the evenings declined as the season wore one. By gun season, we never saw bucks in the evenings. Not even yearlings. However, the more timber we cut and the more we modified the habitat, the more evening activity picked up. Now the two are about equal, with mornings getting the nod during good acorn years and evenings getting the nod in poor acorn years.

 

[backyardtndeer]

It's interesting, but I just think there are too many variables to draw any real conclusions. Much of it depends on what you are hunting. What I mean - a stand set up in a mature bucks bedroom - Yea, he's probably going to get wise very soon. But, a stand set up on a travel corridor - the more I hunt it, my odds of seeing a mature buck increase. I just think there are so many variables, it's hard to say by the data alone if a person should only hunt a stand once or not. But, all of this data should be considered when making hunting choices.

Yep. Have to agree with this for sure. This season was a perfect example on our farm. I killed a buck on a Wednesday late in the morning. There was a doe present.? Wife sat that same stand Thursday, she saw several including a good buck but she couldn't get a shot. I think she hunted the same stand on Friday and saw several again. Saturday morning I hunted the stand and killed a mature 8.

We have a stand over our back field, that I usually have food plots in. There have been countless late season good bucks killed from that stand, after it had been hunted a lot throughout the season. There have been times we have killed a buck from that stand in the morning and gone back later that day and and seen different bucks.

 

[tahtah]

See the above discussion about how we track our stand data. The vast majority of mature buck kills occur from either "new" stands (first year in that location), or 2nd season stands (second year in that location). We still occasionally see/kill a mature buck from a 3+ season stand, but the numbers are much lower than for the 1st and 2nd season stands.

It sounds like you're saying the first and second year of a stand placement is the most productive for a mature buck, on the first sit. I'm not sure I'm following your explanation of why you think it's better the second year. You said you finally realized it was because of the reason you moved it, but wouldn't that make the first year the most productive? I'm probably just not reading it correctly.

However, that really wasn't what I was trying to ask, let me give it another try.

If you hunt a particular stand and see a mature buck on the first hunt, but for whatever reason, you do not get a chance to kill him. Based on your observations, the odds of seeing him again from that stand that year are lower with each sit. If no one kills him throughout the year, do you think the odds of seeing him the following year, from that stand, on the first sit start over? Or do you think he remember that stand from that first year, first sit encounter and avoid it from then on, even the following year(s)? Again, that might be tough to know as it would require all your hunters knowing every mature buck.

Thanks for sharing all your insights!!

 

[deerhunter10]

Very interesting data. We have only killed 2 bucks and missed one buck in the mornings in the last 4 years. It used to be almost 50/50 between morning and evenings. Our evenings are much better for killing our big deer lately. Still seeing good deer in the mornings just not the deer we are wanting to kill. Of course we have a few stands that are just seem good regardless. We were bad about leaving our stands up and not moving them at all. Now we do the same and tweak them a little and it seems to help. Just proves 1st time in is always the best. Pair that with weather and time of the year very deadly. What is interesting to me is the little tick up on the 5th time in.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

We were bad about leaving our stands up and not moving them at all. Now we do the same and tweak them a little and it seems to help.

Yep - we've found even moving a stand 30-50 yards can make a huge difference

 

[BSK]

It sounds like you're saying the first and second year of a stand placement is the most productive for a mature buck, on the first sit. I'm not sure I'm following your explanation of why you think it's better the second year. You said you finally realized it was because of the reason you moved it, but wouldn't that make the first year the most productive? I'm probably just not reading it correctly.

The reason the 2nd year stands have such higher sighting rates is because the only second years stands we keep in their location are the really hot first year stands. The "dud" first years stands all got moved and are "new" 1st year stands. basically, we've weeded out the dud stands leaving only the really good stands for their second year. Factoring in all the dud first stands in with the really hot first year stands lowers the average.

If you hunt a particular stand and see a mature buck on the first hunt, but for whatever reason, you do not get a chance to kill him. Based on your observations, the odds of seeing him again from that stand that year are lower with each sit.

Correct, based purely on averages.

If no one kills him throughout the year, do you think the odds of seeing him the following year, from that stand, on the first sit start over?

No, just a little lower. And it lowers with every subsequent year the stand is left in place.

 

[BSK]

Just remember the differences between averages and individual stands within the data. One particular stand may be on fire, and never see a decline with extra hunts. But the other 30 stands in the same category DO see declines. The fact that one stand defies the odds doesn't invalidate the odds. And in the same vein, the odds don't mean that all stands function right on that average number. It is an average for a reason (average of all the highs and lows).

 

[Snake]

I've posted this data before, but it's now updated with data from the 2022-23 season. This data is also meant more for bow-hunters as stands in this study were set up for very close-range shots (20-40 yards), even during MZ and gun hunting. The data includes 18 years of hunting with 1,692 individual hunts.

The gist of the data is that the more times you hunt a stand, the lower your chances of seeing older bucks. Not that the chances ever fall to zero, but they certainly decline the more times you hunt the same stand in the same year. Older bucks pick up on the fact the stand is being hunted and begin avoiding it during daylight. The best chance to see an older buck is the first time the stand is hunted that year, and the chances of seeing older bucks - on average - declined by around 63% by the fourth time that stand was hunted in the same year.

Again, this has little relevance for those who are shooting hundreds of yards across open fields, but for those who hunt - even during gun season - back in the thick stuff where visibility is very limited, something to think about.

Exactly why I used to take my climber even though we had stands everywhere. Be surprised how moving a mere 100 yards will increase your odds that is if you know where to put it . In season scouting but be careful and not poke your nose to far

 

[deerhunter10]

Yep - we've found even moving a stand 30-50 yards can make a huge difference

Yeah we have made some very minimal changes one just 10 yards and it seemed to make a huge change. I am curious this year we may try going back to orginal places it's been 4ish years and see how that works.

 

[redblood]

Great info btw. I never right anything down. Just kind of roll with the flow

 

[Ski]

What I find fascinating is how our morning vs evening data changed dramatically once we started to alter the habitat. Back before we had cut our first timber, and the property was 90% big hardwoods, we saw far more bucks in the mornings than the evenings, and the evenings declined as the season wore one. By gun season, we never saw bucks in the evenings. Not even yearlings. However, the more timber we cut and the more we modified the habitat, the more evening activity picked up. Now the two are about equal, with mornings getting the nod during good acorn years and evenings getting the nod in poor acorn years.

That is entirely food food related, IMO. Sounds like bucks were bedding near or on your property and were traveling to an evening food source. Seeing as they were gone by afternoon, that food source must be miles away. The habitat work allowed them to not have to travel so far for a heavy evening meal.

 

[mike243]

I found out years ago that your neighbors influence deer travel, some property's use to be a 2:30=5:00 pm travel to a 8:30-10:30 route, every place is different, but you get busted by a buck that's over 3 2 times or more you better move and let that place cool off. the younger deer don't pay a lot of attention but the older they get they really peg you quicker than you can them.

 

[BSK]

That is entirely food food related, IMO. Sounds like bucks were bedding near or on your property and were traveling to an evening food source. Seeing as they were gone by afternoon, that food source must be miles away. The habitat work allowed them to not have to travel so far for a heavy evening meal.

Excellent theory. Makes sense.

 

[Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors]

I saw this 1st hand.. I hunted the same stand many times a few seasons ago, primarily for freezer doe meat. It was raining one morning and chose to throw up a blind 80 yards away. I watched deer get within sight of my empty stand and stare at it for 15 min without moving an inch. They knew exactly where I'd been in the past!