I must be the other 10 percent! I use a 20 gauge and a 410 . I love the uniformity of the pattern TSS gives me. I try to keep all my shots to 35 yards but do pattern out to 40. I must just hunt with the right guy or two because no one has ever considered a 50 60 yard shot with any type shell. TSS is not the culprit it's the person pulling the trigger . You probably have just as many or more guys shooting 3.5 lead shells that take unethical shots. Unethical shots have zero to do with TSS or lead but all to do with the person pulling the trigger.Anyone who thinks 90% of the asshats shooting TSS, are not indeed doing so, solely because they think it allows them to take ridiculous 60+yards shots, has their head up their ass.
Why do turkey hunters miss/wound their gobbler?
- Thread starter scn
- Start date
catman529
Well-Known Member
I used to flinch on birds really bad. Also would get the fever which didn't help. Couple years ago something clicked and I started shooting good. I still get the shakes but somehow I figured out how to calm down for 2 seconds to kill that bird.
woodsman04
Well-Known Member
I would think most misses from my self would be from lifting my head up. I'm pretty good at judging distance. I used to line football fields and I got dang good at guessing distances.
Anyways, putting a red dot or scope takes out the raise Up or not head down error.
I know what people talk about flinching. And shooting at targets with a 835 or Nova will absolutely cause it. But for the life of me I've never even thought about the shell when shooting at a gobbler.
Some may take this the wrong way, but I think most misses are because people don't know how to shoot, or shoot shotguns. I grew up shooting and handling shotguns. I'd get out of school and go wonder around the woods shooting anything that flew or ran from me. Some people don't grow up shooting, they just pick up a gun shoot a few times off a bench then hunt.
I may miss my next 10 turkeys in a row. But I seriously think I don't miss many because I've had enough practice over the years of just shooting a shot gun.
Anyways, putting a red dot or scope takes out the raise Up or not head down error.
I know what people talk about flinching. And shooting at targets with a 835 or Nova will absolutely cause it. But for the life of me I've never even thought about the shell when shooting at a gobbler.
Some may take this the wrong way, but I think most misses are because people don't know how to shoot, or shoot shotguns. I grew up shooting and handling shotguns. I'd get out of school and go wonder around the woods shooting anything that flew or ran from me. Some people don't grow up shooting, they just pick up a gun shoot a few times off a bench then hunt.
I may miss my next 10 turkeys in a row. But I seriously think I don't miss many because I've had enough practice over the years of just shooting a shot gun.
I rarely post here these days for various reasons, but I'll chime in hoping I can add something of value before the TSS debate derails the intent of the thread completely.
While all valid, I find that the items mentioned in the original post have not been a problem for me over the years.
In approximately 18 years of Turkey hunting I have missed one bird. Also, I have taken 2 shots on three different occasions.
What do all 4 of those events have in common? I took a shot at a moving bird.
I know that this is problematic for me and I try not to do it, but I am human and get caught up in the moment occasionally. That's why we do it right? If we didn't get caught up in the moment to some extent, there would be no reason to get out of bed.
Great topic @scn. Happy hunting this spring.
While all valid, I find that the items mentioned in the original post have not been a problem for me over the years.
In approximately 18 years of Turkey hunting I have missed one bird. Also, I have taken 2 shots on three different occasions.
What do all 4 of those events have in common? I took a shot at a moving bird.
I know that this is problematic for me and I try not to do it, but I am human and get caught up in the moment occasionally. That's why we do it right? If we didn't get caught up in the moment to some extent, there would be no reason to get out of bed.
Great topic @scn. Happy hunting this spring.
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woodsman04
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, or just don't know how to shoot. I hate saying that, but lots of times it's the truth.
cowhunter71
Well-Known Member
The fact that you would knowingly pull the trigger at 60+yrds, tells me everything I need to know about you as a "so called" Turkey Hunter.
I have and I know what you mean. I started with old school 12G 3.5" 2 oz Winchester High Velocity #4s (black shells, gold lettering, 270 pellets total), then graduated up to 12G 3.5" 2 7/16 oz Nitros (kills on both ends), then stepped down to 12G 3.5" 2 1/4 oz Mag-Blends (5,6,7 shot), then 12G 3" 2 oz handloaded TSS #8s, then 12G 3" 1 oz TSS #9s duplexed with 1 oz Lead #7s, then eventually graduated to the kid gun I tote today (compact 870 20G), shooting handloaded 20G 3" 1 5/8 oz TSS #9s (588 pellets). I have shot a lot of targets, recovered a lot of wads, even built a shot trap early on to recover TSS because of the cost, and can remember the days of a lightly bruised cheek bone and black eye from shooting eight of the 2 7/16 oz Nitros when I changed chokes (Kicks to Indian Creek) and the POI changed, A LOT, like 8" high! With all of that said, these days, I am a firm believer in "set it and forget it" as I have not patterned my main turkey gun (REM 870 20G 21" bbl) since I first dialed it in years back with handloaded TSS #9s. I still load the same basic recipe for it and it continues to perform. At that time, I field verified 20, 30 and 40 yard patterns with the TSS #9s and determined it was good to go with pellet density at all yardages and POA = POI. With TSS, and it's consistent uniform shot string without many fliers, you can estimate 75% pellet retainage inside the 10" and 20" circles for every 10 yards the distance increases. Generally speaking my Rem 870 20G 21" bbl turkey hunting gun shoots 250/250 inside the 10" circle and 20" circle at 40 yards, thus 250 * .75 = 188 pellets estimated inside each circle at 50 yards, and 140 pellets estimated inside each circle at 60 yards. I am just explaining the math, not advocating for anyone to shoot at a wild turkey at these distances. All of that to say, I have spent a ton of time and more money than I care to admit over the last few decades tinkering with shotguns/chokes/shells to make sure my turkey hunting setup was dialed in for the hunt. Those days are pretty much past me, but I did setup one new 20G last year and shot 3-4 TSS shells to get it dialed in at 40 yards. I started with lead #8s to get it on paper, and fine tuned the TSS #9s POI with 3-4 TSS shells. YMMV, just make sure your setup shoots straight (POA=POI) and you have the pattern density and uniformity you need at the distances you plan to hunt/shoot, and you should be fine.
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Boll Weevil
Well-Known Member
I never miss…ever. [Insert ridiculous sarcasm here]. I prefer to call it catch and release turkey hunting.
I could not agree more, regardless of how good of a turkey hunter one is. If I am going to take leave from work, be away from family, drive 50 miles to hunt, get up at 4AM to listen, slip 400 yards to get in position, follow him and his hens over a ridge or two, work him for a few hours, the LAST thing that I want to do is whiff the shot when it presents itself, due to lack of preparation on my part. Sure it can happen, but it is unacceptable to me when I am critiquing ME, which is always when it comes to turkey hunting. I do not like to fumble when I match wits with them, they have enough things in their favor to start with.
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If that one is directed at me, you can rest assured that I don't consider myself a pro. We have a handful of them on here, and I'm not in the same stratosphere as they are in killing gobblers.
No explanation why I have been lucky enough not to miss. I guess the stars (or scope) has been aligned. And, I am pretty particular about when I will shoot.. If I don't KNOW that the bird is going down, I wait for another time. I enjoy playing the game enough that I have been guilty of passing up some makeable shots so I can play with him the next morning.
I've never killed a bird on opening day. Last year I called one up to about 20 yds, but he came in on my right when I thought he would be to the left of a huge oak. I PROBABLY could have swung and killed him. But, I let him walk off hoping maybe to call him back in later in the morning as he wasn't really spooked. That didn't work, but I got to play with him another 4-5 mornings before I finally pulled the trigger on him. I don't remember the ones I kill nearly as much as the ones that beat me like a drum.
So, absolutely no expert here. If I post something, it is a feeble attempt to help some folks just starting out. I didn't have anyone to help me for a long time, and it took a lot of miles before anything clicked.
I was trying to spool you up. I just couldn't resist. I will not shoot at 60. 50 yards is my limit. I was being truthful about my gun and ammo though. Yes, 50 yards is a poke, and it's not "up close and personal" but with my setup at 50 yards they don't even flop. Someday I hope to be a great turkey hunter and have great places to hunt. Meanwhile, if I get one inside 50 and he hangs up I'm going to drop him like a bag of hammers.
Not directed at you at all. You know who I'm talking about, a "real" self proclaimed expert. One who never misses and looks down on people that do. I did not get that vibe from your post Steve.
I'll add one more reason some hunters miss, and I have even had some more seasoned guys tell me they did this before. They have a gun/choke/shell dialed in and they are confident in it, been on a roll for several years. Either because the shells were not available, or they (the hunter) wanted to switch shells (think latest and greatest), they swapped out the shells and assumed POA=POI with the new shells. Not even close. After a few misses, they finally decided to check POI after the damage was done, and realized just changing shells can change your POI enough/considerably and result in missed turkeys. Don't do it, always check POI if you change anything with your setup (type of choke, exit diameter, shells, etc).
My cousin and I did a testing session one day (pre-TSS) with Hevishot 6's, 7's, and Magblends, and Winchester Extended Range 5's and 6's. I can't remember the exact details without digging out the patterns, but my gun shot anything made by Hevishot high and left, and anything Winchester low and right. I might have it backwards, but you get the point. Had I switched shells mid season with out checking zero the chances of a miss would've been almost certain.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Just another reason I believe "rifle-like" patterns can cause more misses at close & reasonable ranges than they create in hits at longer ranges.
Just like with changing centerfire rifle loads, poi changes with these tight chokes when you change anything about the shell. Different shells seems to perform more similarly in more open chokes.
Displaced_Vol
Well-Known Member
For those of your shooting a scope, was there a significant adjustment period? I've been hesitant to go that route as I don't really like shooting through scopes to begin with & to rationalize it further I don't want to limit my ability to observe the whole scene, if that makes sense?
I've been intrigued by the red dots but it has not been a priority expense wise.
I have not killed a bunch of turkeys by any means, I think i am about 10 total with one good miss several years ago. Got very lazy and a group of 3 Toms walked in silent and I did not make a good mount before I shot in a hurry. 90+% it was a clean miss as I walked to where the bird was and could see where I shaved the tall grass back towards my set up. Anyway, I added a hi viz bead to the 835, the affinity already had one and that's what I've been going with and have been hesitant to change thus far.
I've been intrigued by the red dots but it has not been a priority expense wise.
I have not killed a bunch of turkeys by any means, I think i am about 10 total with one good miss several years ago. Got very lazy and a group of 3 Toms walked in silent and I did not make a good mount before I shot in a hurry. 90+% it was a clean miss as I walked to where the bird was and could see where I shaved the tall grass back towards my set up. Anyway, I added a hi viz bead to the 835, the affinity already had one and that's what I've been going with and have been hesitant to change thus far.
Not for me. I shot some paper until the center of my pattern was where I wanted it just like you adjust a rifle scope. After that, put his head in the circle, pull the trigger, and tote him to the truck. There's not much to it. I've heard people say they shot a tree before that they couldn't see in the scope, but I've never experienced anything like that. You are using such low power even finding him in the scope isn't hard.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
For your thinking & situation, I would recommend a Burris Fastfire.
There is no magnification and you can "see" almost everything much like you do with just a front bead sight. The big difference is in how you can adjust the "red dot" point of aim to exactly match its point of impact, even when you don't have your cheek & gun just right. You could have your cheek most anywhere near the stock and still see that "red dot", and it will still hit right where the red dot shows.
I love the small red-dot "reflex" sights (such as the Burris Fastfire), but do not like the larger "red dot" sights.
If you get to the point where you have trouble clearly seeing the target and the sight simultaneously, a traditional low-magnification scope will be the better choice. I actually prefer it anyway as far as the sight itself goes, but it adds about a pound of weight to your setup, compared to about one ounce with a Fastfire.
I just want to know what kind of loads and patterns folks are shooting to guarantee "not a flop". I always see folks mention this. I've killed more than most from all sorts of distances and am currently throwing 2.5oz of #8.5 TSS their way. Whether its 15 yards or 50, most still got some flop in them! From my experience, the ones that rarely flop, have been hit a bit lower with more pellets than I care for in the body.
But anyways, that always amuses me. Continue forth.
But anyways, that always amuses me. Continue forth.
.270 WSM, 3250 fps, 140 Accubond. Batting 100% thus far.
Just kidding, but that is about the only load I could quickly think of that would exceed 715 #8 TSS pellets going downrange. That's a real payload. What gun/choke/exit diameter do you use with that much shell?
