When the time is right you sub-soil

[Popcorn]

The first time this year I have had time to hook up the sub soil ripper and go fix a couple plots that have serious compaction issues. Two problems, highly erodable soil and fall plots already growing nicely. But you make hay when the sun shines with what you have.

So a single bottom sub-soiler so I can spread the soil disruption out to furrows 5 tp 6 feet apart. Always plow across the flow of water. An opportunity when the soil has a high moisture content makes the effort a little easier but a hard pull really destroys a lot of the crop so replant immediately hopefully taking advantage of the high moisture content germinating the new seed quickly preventing potential erosion.

 

[mike243]

Seen a sub soiler plow that had to be 8' wide with blades 3-4' long some where this week in my travels, not sure what they used to pull it with but would take a lot. a tracked big dozer comes to mind but those great big tractors might could do it not sure what it would take

 

[DoubleRidge]

Looking good....I'd say the damage to the plot will be worth it in the long run.

Your recommendation to always plow across the flow of water is spot on...great advice!.....soil retention and preservation should be at the top of the list for the land manager.

Listened to a podcast yesterday where Dr Grant said that soil that's the thickness of a sheet of paper over one acre equals one ton of soil....and that study's in Iowa show in some areas they loose five tons of soil per acre per year due to erosion.....crazy.

With our sloped hills and holler plots in Middle TN I know we can't afford to lose good top soil.

 

[BSK]

You da MAN Popcorn! Great stuff!

 

[megalomaniac]

Man, that's a great tool! I bet I would destroy it in under 15 minutes on my place when I hit the first car sized limestone rock 8in under the surface though.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Man, that's a great tool! I bet I would destroy it in under 15 minutes on my place when I hit the first car sized limestone rock 8in under the surface though.

I had the same thought.....it would need a "break-away" feature on our place for sure.

 

[BSK]

Man, that's a great tool! I bet I would destroy it in under 15 minutes on my place when I hit the first car sized limestone rock 8in under the surface though.

In my plots, they're AT the surface, not 8" deep!

 

[Boll Weevil]

Popcorn, what HP is your tractor and does that single shank pull ok? How long is it/how deep you going?

 

[JCDEERMAN]

How often does this need to be done? Also, how do you determine the soil compaction?

 

[44 mag]

In my plots, they're AT the surface, not 8" deep!

Your place sounds a lot like mine lol

 

[Popcorn]

Man, that's a great tool! I bet I would destroy it in under 15 minutes on my place when I hit the first car sized limestone rock 8in under the surface though.

Shear pins work but I dont enjoy replacing them so I learned to operate at a lower RPM so an object too tough will stall the tractor first.

 

[Popcorn]

Popcorn, what HP is your tractor and does that single shank pull ok? How long is it/how deep you going?

I was using a 100 hp tractor on this task. I also have used a 45 hp tractor but it is too light and spins a lot in really difficult soil. The ripper has a 24 inch shank and is tipped with a 2 inch wide plate so it fractures rather than slices. I found a few soft places where it went the full 24 inches but it ran between 16 and 18 inches most of the time. This tractor does not have down pressure so I had to use the top bar adjustment to use point angle to keep it in the ground. I also run slow at a low RPM so a big rock or root stall the tractor rather than shear pins or damage the plow. The tractor shuttered the entire time and often dirt rolled up in geometric shapes (seriously compacted). The single shank handles well and is more forgiving when gently turning direction. The tractor would handle a 2 shank but not as easily

 

[JhnDeereMan]

If you keep an eye out at farm sales you can often find an old "V" ripper. They are not as desirable on row crop farms today as everyone has gone to in line rippers. You can probably pick it up for $500 or less. It may be a 7 shank but just take the shanks off and cut the bar down and you are good to go. Rule of thumb is 40-50 hp per shank depending on soil conditions.

I have found that the easiest pulling points are the 7" points with wings. They bubble the ground a little more but pull easier

 

[Popcorn]

How often does this need to be done? Also, how do you determine the soil compaction?

How often depends on soil type, cause of compaction, how thorough you do it the first time and more.
Compaction can sometimes be seen on the surface, soil should sponge and rebound as well as readily absorb water. A little shovel work will also reveal compaction as can plant root systems. there are a good many reasons to suspect compaction but water absorption and soil texture are the simplest.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

How often depends on soil type, cause of compaction, how thorough you do it the first time and more.
Compaction can sometimes be seen on the surface, soil should sponge and rebound as well as readily absorb water. A little shovel work will also reveal compaction as can plant root systems. there are a good many reasons to suspect compaction but water absorption and soil texture are the simplest.

When I first brought up to a few farmers that I would be no till planting from here on out (Dr. Grant Woods method), they brought up your point about soil compaction. I explained to them all the different varieties I was planting (root distribution in the soil) and they still said the soil would need to be disrupted at points over time. Any input on that?

 

[Popcorn]

I agree with the farmers 100%
Dont get me wrong as I am pro no-till as I strongly encourage multi species plantings to help improve the soil... BUT

With soils that are heavy in clay or chirt and low in organic matter compaction is a given. Weather, animal hooves, vehicles, shallow tillage, (no till drills are still a tillage tool) spray rigs, bush hog, crimper / roller even the atv / utv contribute to compaction. Even the weight of the soil itself can contribute, good soil is light and fluffy.

Dont make the mistake of believing that compacted soil just effects root systems. A much greater value lies in water retention versus runnoff.

A brief example;
I have a 7 acre pasture that is in the head of a hollow. I have a pond that the entire 7 acres drains to. Before last winter every rain caused that pond to flow out the overflow pipe. This year the pond as overflowed 1 time due to a torrential rain that lasted hours. The difference----
I used a renovator (shallow depth sub-soiler) on the 7 acres. Cutting and lifting 8 inches down every 16 inches against the flow of water. This year I have had orchard grass and red clover under heavy graze all summer and it has produced an unprecidented amount of grass. this because of water penetration through once compacted soils that was reserved deeper in the soil then given up as needed. to roots that were enabled to reach further down to water and nutrients not before reachable.

Opening and disrupting the soil on occasion also allows organic matter, oxygen, good bacteria and other biology lower into the soil which can only be good.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I agree with the farmers 100%
Dont get me wrong as I am pro no-till as I strongly encourage multi species plantings to help improve the soil... BUT

With soils that are heavy in clay or chirt and low in organic matter compaction is a given. Weather, animal hooves, vehicles, shallow tillage, (no till drills are still a tillage tool) spray rigs, bush hog, crimper / roller even the atv / utv contribute to compaction. Even the weight of the soil itself can contribute, good soil is light and fluffy.

Dont make the mistake of believing that compacted soil just effects root systems. A much greater value lies in water retention versus runnoff.

A brief example;
I have a 7 acre pasture that is in the head of a hollow. I have a pond that the entire 7 acres drains to. Before last winter every rain caused that pond to flow out the overflow pipe. This year the pond as overflowed 1 time due to a torrential rain that lasted hours. The difference----
I used a renovator (shallow depth sub-soiler) on the 7 acres. Cutting and lifting 8 inches down every 16 inches against the flow of water. This year I have had orchard grass and red clover under heavy graze all summer and it has produced an unprecidented amount of grass. this because of water penetration through once compacted soils that was reserved deeper in the soil then given up as needed. to roots that were enabled to reach further down to water and nutrients not before reachable.

Opening and disrupting the soil on occasion also allows organic matter, oxygen, good bacteria and other biology lower into the soil which can only be good.

GREAT info! Would running a chisel plow accomplish this objective? We have one of those

 

[Popcorn]

I don't have a lot of experience with a chisel plow but I believe them to be more disruptive of the surface and less so deeper in the spring action will keep them from working deep but on the other hand I believe it could be better than doing nothing

 

[BSK]

GREAT info! Would running a chisel plow accomplish this objective? We have one of those

I've tried a chisel plow in fall several times. Hardly scratched the surface of my most compacted soil plots.

 

[Pioneer1789]

I'm not 100% sure, but I'd think a chisel plow wouldn't be heavy enough for subsoiling.