kasey
Well-Known Member
Yep not all attention is good attention
TWRA wants to sue people that disagree with them.
- Thread starter RUGER
- Start date
Madbowh
Well-Known Member
I always don't like to hijack a thread but the original post only raises more questions and concerns about our leadership/law enforcement. Let's take nails and boards for example, twra offers a reward leading to the prosecution of anyone putting nails or boards into a tree. Every wma, refugee or state land I've ever been on there signs nailed to trees by then doing this they put themselves above the law. It's I can because I'm law enforcement. The twra officer in the original post here had the exact attitude of the person that decided to offer rewards for nails in trees. Go to a national park you might see a few signs in trees but way more signs are on a post in the ground. The guy in that email, if it's real, doesn't seem to be happy about someone bringing a situation to a head and is trying to use his authority to block them this is not and should never be acceptable. Trolling purely for enjoyment is not okay but if your trolling to prove a point or make awareness of a situation is really a free choice it is all in the context of the situation. Nobody even those I completely disagree with should be blocked. I am a firm believer in law enforcement but I can personally attest to twra abusing their power and putting themselves above all. I have only met 2twra officers that were truly honest and just. And I'll be honest here I've hunted a lot of states and twra is very different. I think these blinds cause themselves more than it's worth. How many other states have blinds set up by game wardens? Why don't they set turkey blinds, deer stands, fishing only docks, fishing ponds? There must be some form of federal funding here for this that they are getting.
Buzzard Breath
Well-Known Member
I can't comment on all the Facebook stuff, above and beyond the posted screenshot, but TWRA has deer blinds on some WMA's, lots of fishing docks, and several fishing lakes.
Tennessee280
Well-Known Member
definitely didnt hurt anything
Grouseman
Well-Known Member
Really? Sure about that? I can tell you for a FACT that it did hurt your cause.
Tennessee280
Well-Known Member
if complaining about morons ruining hunting hurts the case, then they're just going to do what they want to anyways, which they've already proven they do
I suspect if you check the nails in TWRA signs that you will find them to be aluminum that don't cause issues at sawmills.
But, whine on.
Madbowh
Well-Known Member
Didn't know aluminum rusts
Heck I'm not questioning you but I always thought it was cause of the "damage" it does to trees and not that they were worried about a sawmill. I always thought it was sort of viewed like climbing spurs. Honest inquiry
It is both.
Posting signage unfortunately is a necessary evil on agency lands.
Posting signage unfortunately is a necessary evil on agency lands.
JagwalCrush
Well-Known Member
I don't even know what it's about because of not having "SpacePage", ( can't afford it), but if it pizzed off twra, it didn't pizz them off nearly as much as they have me.
Did any of the hundreds of people that have went about it professionally help the cause?
Point is nothing helps or hurts because they are going to do whatever they want regardless.
Sandman69
Well-Known Member
I figured as much. Stalking their Facebook page with childish memes and posts isn't going to change any minds. If it is a legit email, it sounds like the TWRA internet "liason" just wants the 2-year-old antics to stop muddying the page up. (While I don't know enough about the various WMA's in TN or hunt waterfowl often I don't like the changes)
Sandman69
Well-Known Member
He got attention alright. He'll be kicked off the page and blocked. If he keeps the kid stuff up, an organization with a hell of a lot more resources than he has can make his life rough for awhile. I looks to me like they want the stupidity to stop.
So do the duck hunters.
That is what makes me the maddest.
Except there is a whole 'nother side to the whole thing.
Before I start and make folks mad, let me go on record again that I DO NOT like the changes. That probably is primarily because it has hurt some close friends of mine that looked more forward to the first Saturday in August than they did Christmas day. I understand anticipation and dreams. That is my thought process most days. Preparing for hunting and fishing trips is often more fun to me than the actual trip itself, particularly when the hunting or fishing ends up sucking. I get gathering up with close friends hoping to get a high pick and whack ducks all season. The dreams are there even when the reality is that when you get a high pick you end up killing only a handful of ducks while dealing with some of the "one shot" bs common to our WMAS.
In my opinion, and YMMV, when someone says duck hunters aren't being listened to by the Agency and Commission, they need to insert LOCAL in front of that statement every time. Because, that is what this argument boils down to. Believe it or not, we have folks that love to duck hunt scattered all the way from the mountains of ETN down to our duck hunting meccas. And, regardless of what the locals in those meccas think, those hunters pay the same amount of license fees (maybe minus a WMA permit if they aren't hunting on one) as do the folks living next door to one.
I grew up duck hunting on Cherokee Lake and later on Douglas. Due to the almost daily fluctuation of water depths, there were no even semi-permanent blinds. And, you still had to get hid to kill a duck. A luxury blind up there was taking a mattock and digging a trench for your legs while you sat on a tarp with a 2-3' burlap blind around you. If you had a roof to keep the rain off, it was a super setup. On the days I was by myself, my "blind" usually consisted of laying on my back on a tarp with some mud colored burlap over me and a full face mask. And, unless it was frozen, it was a muddy, nasty deal every hunt. I still have clothes that are stained by that red Cherokee mud. It was impossible to totally wash off. And, yes, it meant setting decoys every day due to the water fluctuating so much. It was a job.
But, it got me out there enjoying something that was my number one outdoor pleasure for many years. I killed ducks, and it fanned the fire for me to go to places like Ballard Co, Mattamuskeet (first pintail there), and even a couple of DIY goose whackings up on the prairies of Saskatchewan. And, for a lot of that time, I was royally pissed at the TN Game and Fish and later TWRA for not doing ANYTHING for waterfowl up in my part of the state. My license dollars meant nothing to them.
Once I started with the agency, I probably disliked it even more. I found out that the state's waterfowl program was a huge black hole for money that didn't even come close to paying for itself. If it wasn't for deer hunters toting the bills, there wouldn't be waterfowl WMAS. So, to see duck hunters that live away from these WMAs question why they couldn't have even a sliver of the pie shouldn't be some great surprise to the LOCALS. It remains the same black hole today.
Once I moved to middle TN, I attended the WMA drawings every year. Sometimes I was part of a group, and probably just as much I was by myself at a drawing. But, I enjoyed the same dreams every year, so it was worth the 1-3+ hour drive to get to the site. I never had my name or number pulled. But, I still understand the allure and anticipation.
TWRA is charged with representing the hunters across the whole state. There has been pressure on them for decades to do more for waterfowl hunters statewide. Unfortunately, decent available sites, and MONEY, have limited much expansion eastward. They did a survey of waterfowl hunters across the state to gauge the support for changing some of the WMA regs to provide more opportunity for more hunters. From talking with some folks that I totally trust both in and out of the agency, I am convinced that it was a legit survey. And, unsurprisingly, it showed that hunters wanted more access to these WMAs.
So, the agency decided to give increased access to STATEWIDE hunters to see if they could meet some of that pent up demand. It was a sliver of the pie, and not throwing the whole system away. Yes, for whatever reason, some of the blinds selected were some of the best. When it came time to gather input before the votes, I am told that the input from hunters that liked the changes was even slightly more than those that disagreed with them. It WAS NOT a one-sided deal where the Commission thumbed their nose at all duck hunters.
So, they decided to try something. I have some friends that despise it, and I have some friends that have enjoyed the changes. I've often thought that before I criticized anybody, that I should put myself walking in their shoes. Even though I still fall into the group wishing nothing had been done, it is really hard for me to harshly judge Commissioners that are tasked to looking out for hunters on a STATEWIDE basis. They did what they thought was right for hunters across the state.
Time will tell if it was the right decision. Hopefully some tweaks can be made to address unanticipated issues. But, rest assured that their decisions HAVE NOT pissed off ALL of the duck hunters in the state.
Sorry for the length, but maybe it is time for all of us to take a step back and really think about how we would have done it if we were on the Commission making some of those hard decisions.
Before I start and make folks mad, let me go on record again that I DO NOT like the changes. That probably is primarily because it has hurt some close friends of mine that looked more forward to the first Saturday in August than they did Christmas day. I understand anticipation and dreams. That is my thought process most days. Preparing for hunting and fishing trips is often more fun to me than the actual trip itself, particularly when the hunting or fishing ends up sucking. I get gathering up with close friends hoping to get a high pick and whack ducks all season. The dreams are there even when the reality is that when you get a high pick you end up killing only a handful of ducks while dealing with some of the "one shot" bs common to our WMAS.
In my opinion, and YMMV, when someone says duck hunters aren't being listened to by the Agency and Commission, they need to insert LOCAL in front of that statement every time. Because, that is what this argument boils down to. Believe it or not, we have folks that love to duck hunt scattered all the way from the mountains of ETN down to our duck hunting meccas. And, regardless of what the locals in those meccas think, those hunters pay the same amount of license fees (maybe minus a WMA permit if they aren't hunting on one) as do the folks living next door to one.
I grew up duck hunting on Cherokee Lake and later on Douglas. Due to the almost daily fluctuation of water depths, there were no even semi-permanent blinds. And, you still had to get hid to kill a duck. A luxury blind up there was taking a mattock and digging a trench for your legs while you sat on a tarp with a 2-3' burlap blind around you. If you had a roof to keep the rain off, it was a super setup. On the days I was by myself, my "blind" usually consisted of laying on my back on a tarp with some mud colored burlap over me and a full face mask. And, unless it was frozen, it was a muddy, nasty deal every hunt. I still have clothes that are stained by that red Cherokee mud. It was impossible to totally wash off. And, yes, it meant setting decoys every day due to the water fluctuating so much. It was a job.
But, it got me out there enjoying something that was my number one outdoor pleasure for many years. I killed ducks, and it fanned the fire for me to go to places like Ballard Co, Mattamuskeet (first pintail there), and even a couple of DIY goose whackings up on the prairies of Saskatchewan. And, for a lot of that time, I was royally pissed at the TN Game and Fish and later TWRA for not doing ANYTHING for waterfowl up in my part of the state. My license dollars meant nothing to them.
Once I started with the agency, I probably disliked it even more. I found out that the state's waterfowl program was a huge black hole for money that didn't even come close to paying for itself. If it wasn't for deer hunters toting the bills, there wouldn't be waterfowl WMAS. So, to see duck hunters that live away from these WMAs question why they couldn't have even a sliver of the pie shouldn't be some great surprise to the LOCALS. It remains the same black hole today.
Once I moved to middle TN, I attended the WMA drawings every year. Sometimes I was part of a group, and probably just as much I was by myself at a drawing. But, I enjoyed the same dreams every year, so it was worth the 1-3+ hour drive to get to the site. I never had my name or number pulled. But, I still understand the allure and anticipation.
TWRA is charged with representing the hunters across the whole state. There has been pressure on them for decades to do more for waterfowl hunters statewide. Unfortunately, decent available sites, and MONEY, have limited much expansion eastward. They did a survey of waterfowl hunters across the state to gauge the support for changing some of the WMA regs to provide more opportunity for more hunters. From talking with some folks that I totally trust both in and out of the agency, I am convinced that it was a legit survey. And, unsurprisingly, it showed that hunters wanted more access to these WMAs.
So, the agency decided to give increased access to STATEWIDE hunters to see if they could meet some of that pent up demand. It was a sliver of the pie, and not throwing the whole system away. Yes, for whatever reason, some of the blinds selected were some of the best. When it came time to gather input before the votes, I am told that the input from hunters that liked the changes was even slightly more than those that disagreed with them. It WAS NOT a one-sided deal where the Commission thumbed their nose at all duck hunters.
So, they decided to try something. I have some friends that despise it, and I have some friends that have enjoyed the changes. I've often thought that before I criticized anybody, that I should put myself walking in their shoes. Even though I still fall into the group wishing nothing had been done, it is really hard for me to harshly judge Commissioners that are tasked to looking out for hunters on a STATEWIDE basis. They did what they thought was right for hunters across the state.
Time will tell if it was the right decision. Hopefully some tweaks can be made to address unanticipated issues. But, rest assured that their decisions HAVE NOT pissed off ALL of the duck hunters in the state.
Sorry for the length, but maybe it is time for all of us to take a step back and really think about how we would have done it if we were on the Commission making some of those hard decisions.
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If they care so much about survey results, why go completely against their latest survey results? 75% in favor of allowing blind hopping. 63% in favor of in person draws. They are going against both results and doing the opposite.
I was also one of the few who received their original survey that started this whole mess. It was very biased, and some question were even impossible to answer in a way that would be against the changes. I remember after taking it I text my hunting group and said they are going to make some big changes.
Maybe they decided to go against hopping the Tier 2 blinds because they were smart enough to know what a cluster-f it would be.
From my understanding of the blind hopping deal, and that is from the way the regs are written and maybe not by "local custom", you couldn't hop the blind unless the permitted blind "owner" was not there by legal shooting time. I guess you could be in the blind and ready to leave if they showed.
That works OK for blinds that are ready to hunt with decoys already set. Now, imagine going into one of the Tier 2 holes and sitting there waiting to see if the permitted person shows. When they don't, you have to get out and start setting decoys because there are none there. So, right in the PRIME time for killing some ducks, you have "hoppers" out there beating and banging around and very likely screwing up the hunting for that whole bottom. That doesn't seem very fair for folks that may have come from a long way away for 2-3 days of duck hunting.
To me, it smacks of some more of the LOCAL entitlement with the idea that I am entitled to hunt that spot even if it screws it up for everybody else.
From my understanding of the blind hopping deal, and that is from the way the regs are written and maybe not by "local custom", you couldn't hop the blind unless the permitted blind "owner" was not there by legal shooting time. I guess you could be in the blind and ready to leave if they showed.
That works OK for blinds that are ready to hunt with decoys already set. Now, imagine going into one of the Tier 2 holes and sitting there waiting to see if the permitted person shows. When they don't, you have to get out and start setting decoys because there are none there. So, right in the PRIME time for killing some ducks, you have "hoppers" out there beating and banging around and very likely screwing up the hunting for that whole bottom. That doesn't seem very fair for folks that may have come from a long way away for 2-3 days of duck hunting.
To me, it smacks of some more of the LOCAL entitlement with the idea that I am entitled to hunt that spot even if it screws it up for everybody else.
And, again, I wish they had left it alone where every blind on the Area would have been brushed, decoyed, and ready to hunt.
