Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 year?

[hunter0925]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

A few replies i think have strayed from the OP's thought. He didn't advocate making hunting easier he simply implies allowing deer to age an additional year. Also i don't think it's valid to introduce poaching and car accidents into the equation because this is a minute percentage of deer killed over all and these variables will always exist.


I believe it is ignorant to believe poaching is a minute percentage of deer killed. Poaching is rampant and I personally know of 2 people who, by theirselves, will kill nearly 100 deer a year out of the window of their trucks, and most of them bucks. Poaching is much more widespread than many people believe, either due to ignorance or just the desire to believe it doesn't happen.

It's not ignorance at all. Your opinion based on 2 people would be what I would consider ignorance. Poaching is an issue, I never said it wasn't. And unfortunatly there are legal hunters who kill nearly that many a year which i also disagree with. But TN has over 120k deer claimed each year. I don't believe poaching numbers compare to that from my experience and personal knowledge of that culture. Also most "poaching" violations are generally in specific geographical locations like certain tracks that are near a residence of the offender etc. There are exceptions but for the sake of this debate I'll stop at that. So as far as a state wide population I believe it's impact is minute.

Also if you read my entire post you would see I posted that the poacher and accidents won't stop so I don't think they should enter the equation. They happen now and will continue.

My post also pointed out people straying from the OP's original thought, and you proved that one too.

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I assure you, my assumption of poaching is not based off of 2 people, I just listed the worst offenders that I know of. I can promise you there are counties, yes entire countiea, where more deer are poached than are ever killed legal. Also, most of the people I know who poach do not stay in a certain geographical location, they run several counties a night. Heck, I know one that goes to different states to do it, including out west. I'm not trying to start an argument at all I just believe that people don't actually understand how bad it is and how many deer are actually killed by poaching unless they are subjected to be around the people who do it on a regular basis. I'm not saying there are 120k poached a year but what number would it take to get your attention? I do agree that anything we do to the honest hunters is not going to stop that and so it can't be factored as well.

 

[Nsghunter]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

I know this is just a thought provoking discussion and not actually open to make changes but I feel the biggest impact would be a very large loss of revenue and it's possible crippling effects towards our wildlife resources and some of the other natural resources that benefit from the moneys related to permits and such. I don't know the numbers but hunting does bring in a lot of revenue to the state and also the outfitter type business would pack up and leave or begin selling man purses for all the men who would lose their minds waiting two years to chase a buck, not just one season.

 

[waynesworld]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

I know this is just a thought provoking discussion and not actually open to make changes but I feel the biggest impact would be a very large loss of revenue and it's possible crippling effects towards our wildlife resources and some of the other natural resources that benefit from the moneys related to permits and such. I don't know the numbers but hunting does bring in a lot of revenue to the state and also the outfitter type business would pack up and leave or begin selling man purses for all the men who would lose their minds waiting two years to chase a buck, not just one season.

I also think this would be bad for overall widlife managment. I would have to trust the pros at the TWRA ti be able to manage the overall heard and the regional hunting with their limits. Poaching may be problems but you also have under reporting problems but i think that is all taking into consideration when setting limits. I would love to see more pushes to increase hunting in the state and the state can get more land for more public land to manage. Also then more managment officers to help limit the poaching.

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[landman]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

After reading thru these this is My thoughts.....

I Would NOT want the season closed for a year

I would NOT want a 1 Buck Limit

If I KNEW of 2 people killing 125 deer illegally each year and I didn't personally call the GW, Sheriff and DA I would feel I'm part of the problem......I know Judges cause problems, But they also get elected in the seats that deal with poaching, I'd help elect a new one

TN had 7,219 Deer killed in auto wrecks last year per the THP

Has far as killed over 25 deer wrong, years ago a member had killed 32 and I made a comment about that was wrong, I have since met him and become good friends......but he's still not right in the head :rotf:

 

[Coldfusion]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

One thing I have advocated, but told by scn it will never happen, is to delay out of state hunters for one week. This is particularly for public land benefits. And most the impact would help turkey season more. But I would like to see the first week of each season (turkey, deer) for residents only. I'm not advocating cut out all out of staters as I know that generates income. I'm just saying give us life long tax payers a head start. It's very frustrating to go out to a wma on opening day of turkey to find almost every parking area has out of state tags parked there already. I know catman had a bad incident with some out of staters last turkey season.

An argument I received back for this idea was that we wouldn't want other states to do that to us. My thought on this is why not? It's their animals and I can go a week later, I think a state should take care of it's own before others. I would have no problem with other states implementing such a policy. Actually I would tip my hat to their loyalty to their sportsman.

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[MickThompson]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

You'd get big pushback from the out of state landowners, and rightfully so.


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[TX300mag]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Coldfusion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of not knowing because I doubt you're actually looking for ways the govt can restrict other people because it you feel it might benefit you.

Maybe you aren't aware that "out of staters" pay significantly more to hunt and fish in TN than residents. Please take that into consideration.

Although TWRA isn't funded by tax money, keep in mind that many nonresidents pay property taxes that fund many services they don't benefit from-but still pay taxes. At minimum they pay sales tax and fuel taxes every time they come to hunt.


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[Coldfusion]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Coldfusion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of not knowing because I doubt you're actually looking for ways the govt can restrict other people because it you feel it might benefit you.

Maybe you aren't aware that "out of staters" pay significantly more to hunt and fish in TN than residents. Please take that into consideration.

Although TWRA isn't funded by tax money, keep in mind that many nonresidents pay property taxes that fund many services they don't benefit from-but still pay taxes. At minimum they pay sales tax and fuel taxes every time they come to hunt.


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It's not trying to cause any harm to others at all. I get the profit from out of state hunters, I'm not saying don't allow them. Just one week is all for residents. I know non resident license are more, but us life long residents taxes have contributed to public lands and maintenance of the roads that lead to them. And we pay the fuel taxes daily. I'm all about non residents coming and sharing the wealth of our great state as I know many of my fellow sportsman travel to other states as well. Just saying 1 week. I don't think it would prevent non residents from coming.

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[DRSJ35]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

just cause theres no problem with deer herd in your part of the state.A bunch of east tn has problems.The TWRA has been saying that for at least 10 years now.We are way below carrying capacity they say.But its hard for them to get a real count with these mountains.

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Coldfusion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of not knowing because I doubt you're actually looking for ways the govt can restrict other people because it you feel it might benefit you.

Maybe you aren't aware that "out of staters" pay significantly more to hunt and fish in TN than residents. Please take that into consideration.

Although TWRA isn't funded by tax money, keep in mind that many nonresidents pay property taxes that fund many services they don't benefit from-but still pay taxes. At minimum they pay sales tax and fuel taxes every time they come to hunt.


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It's not trying to cause any harm to others at all. I get the profit from out of state hunters, I'm not saying don't allow them. Just one week is all for residents. I know non resident license are more, but us life long residents taxes have contributed to public lands and maintenance of the roads that lead to them. And we pay the fuel taxes daily. I'm all about non residents coming and sharing the wealth of our great state as I know many of my fellow sportsman travel to other states as well. Just saying 1 week. I don't think it would prevent non residents from coming.

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I know you don't intend to harm anybody, that's why is said restrict.

Is everybody that lives in TN a lifelong resident? I know lots of people in TN who pay less taxes (some zero) than many NRs. My dad doesn't hunt his own farm he grew up on because he doesn't feel like he can justify paying SEVERAL hundred dollars to hunt it a few days around Thanksgiving or Christmas. TWRA already loses out on lots of money from my family (wife, brothers, father) because the license fees have gotten so high. TWRA got more money from my family in 2003 than it does now after two increases. Let's try to find something that makes you feel better without taking even MORE revenue away from TWRA.


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[Coldfusion]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Coldfusion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of not knowing because I doubt you're actually looking for ways the govt can restrict other people because it you feel it might benefit you.

Maybe you aren't aware that "out of staters" pay significantly more to hunt and fish in TN than residents. Please take that into consideration.

Although TWRA isn't funded by tax money, keep in mind that many nonresidents pay property taxes that fund many services they don't benefit from-but still pay taxes. At minimum they pay sales tax and fuel taxes every time they come to hunt.


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It's not trying to cause any harm to others at all. I get the profit from out of state hunters, I'm not saying don't allow them. Just one week is all for residents. I know non resident license are more, but us life long residents taxes have contributed to public lands and maintenance of the roads that lead to them. And we pay the fuel taxes daily. I'm all about non residents coming and sharing the wealth of our great state as I know many of my fellow sportsman travel to other states as well. Just saying 1 week. I don't think it would prevent non residents from coming.

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I know you don't intend to harm anybody, that's why is said restrict.

Is everybody that lives in TN a lifelong resident? I know lots of people in TN who pay less taxes (some zero) than many NRs. My dad doesn't hunt his own farm he grew up on because he doesn't feel like he can justify paying SEVERAL hundred dollars to hunt it a few days around Thanksgiving or Christmas. TWRA already loses out on lots of money from my family (wife, brothers, father) because the license fees have gotten so high. TWRA got more money from my family in 2003 than it does now after two increases. Let's try to find something that makes you feel better without taking even MORE revenue away from TWRA.


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I don't think you would see much of a decrease in non resident license sales if it was a continual practice. Of course this is all just in theory and I know it won't ever happen. Just a thought to dwell on.

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[Buzzard Breath]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

I don't think you would see much of a decrease in non resident license sales if it was a continual practice. Of course this is all just in theory and I know it won't ever happen. Just a thought to dwell on.

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It would definitely lead to lower license sales. The whole reason they are here the first week is that it's not yet open in their state.

I have first hand experience with this because I travel to other states to turkey hunt and deer before TN opens strictly because they open before we do. AL turkey and KY deer.

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[waynesworld]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Cold you may also want to know our tax dollers do not pay for our wildlife managment. The license sales does, and to be truthful the license sales pays for some recreation things that benifit our taxpayers that dont pay anything. We charge them more to use our land and i am ok with that but to say i can hunt a week before they could i think would piss me off. I live where deer are plentyfull and not hunting a year would cause overpopulation. I feel for the people in the east though.

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[Bone Collector]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Something like this would never fly but I could live with it. More deer living to another year and more does dropping fawns to replenish what was killed the year before couldn't help but boost populations. The 3 doe/day has done more to stymie populations than anything else I can think of. I don't know that closing the season for a year would do much more than just closing all doe hunting for a year. At present, the buck population around me has done a pretty good job of surviving another year even with the season open, lol.

That is the point of the 3 doe/ day limit... to stymie populations. I know deer hunters want to see 20 deer per sit, but that is not feasible when one of the reasons put forth for the necessity of hunting is to curb deer populations.

Also i don't think it's valid to introduce poaching and car accidents into the equation because this is a minute percentage of deer killed over all and these variables will always exist.

This is not entirely true. Studies show about 30,000 deer per year are hit with cars in TN. we kill about 150,000 - 175,000 deer per year hunting, so 30,000 is not a minute percentage. If you added the 30,000 on top of the # of deer killed hunting each year it would be 15-17% of the deer killed. I would imagine if we stopped shooting a bunch a does in high population areas or closed season on deer or does for a year this # would obviously go up.

 

[Mike Belt]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

I understand the 3 doe/day is to curtail populations... and it's working. My question is when is enough enough for at least a season or two. Granted some areas are holding their own but others are beginning to show the strain. In those areas if you keep curtailing what's being curtailed yearly for the past few years then you're going to end up with more curtails than whitetails, lol.

 

[fishboy1]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Not that it would ever happen but IF it was closed for a year for the purpose of growing older bucks, TWRA would be facing a melt down.
1. Their funding would dry up.
2. They would be facing class action lawsuits from lifetime license holders.
3. They would loose all credibility with the largest segment of the population... The average hunters and the non hunting public.
4. Once the season was closed, anti-hunters would run wild using this example as justification for closing as many seasons as possible.
5. The desired "more bigger bucks" dream will be a disappointment. There will likely be a noticeable increase in younger age class bucks (naturally since fawns and 1.5 yr old are the largest segment of the buck population). The few "whopper" bucks that make it another year will not magically become easily hunted and killed.
6. The bigger bucks at any cost mentality will cause an enormous backlash in the hunting community.

 

[MUP]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Isn't the goal to have 1:1 or up to 2:1 doe to buck ratio anyway, for a more balanced rut? Seems there are still plenty of does being seen, relative to buck sightings anyway. :?: At least that's what I've read and heard for years now it seems.

 

[Smo]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Coldfusion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of not knowing because I doubt you're actually looking for ways the govt can restrict other people because it you feel it might benefit you.

Maybe you aren't aware that "out of staters" pay significantly more to hunt and fish in TN than residents. Please take that into consideration.

Although TWRA isn't funded by tax money, keep in mind that many nonresidents pay property taxes that fund many services they don't benefit from-but still pay taxes. At minimum they pay sales tax and fuel taxes every time they come to hunt.


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It's not trying to cause any harm to others at all. I get the profit from out of state hunters, I'm not saying don't allow them. Just one week is all for residents. I know non resident license are more, but us life long residents taxes have contributed to public lands and maintenance of the roads that lead to them. And we pay the fuel taxes daily. I'm all about non residents coming and sharing the wealth of our great state as I know many of my fellow sportsman travel to other states as well. Just saying 1 week. I don't think it would prevent non residents from coming.

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I know you don't intend to harm anybody, that's why is said restrict.

Is everybody that lives in TN a lifelong resident? I know lots of people in TN who pay less taxes (some zero) than many NRs. My dad doesn't hunt his own farm he grew up on because he doesn't feel like he can justify paying SEVERAL hundred dollars to hunt it a few days around Thanksgiving or Christmas. TWRA already loses out on lots of money from my family (wife, brothers, father) because the license fees have gotten so high. TWRA got more money from my family in 2003 than it does now after two increases. Let's try to find something that makes you feel better without taking even MORE revenue away from TWRA.


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I think Tennessee now has a deal if you were born in Tennessee and you can prove you were.

You can by a Resident Licence even though you live elsewhere.... I have my miss read the rule but ....... I don't think so.

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Coldfusion, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of not knowing because I doubt you're actually looking for ways the govt can restrict other people because it you feel it might benefit you.

Maybe you aren't aware that "out of staters" pay significantly more to hunt and fish in TN than residents. Please take that into consideration.

Although TWRA isn't funded by tax money, keep in mind that many nonresidents pay property taxes that fund many services they don't benefit from-but still pay taxes. At minimum they pay sales tax and fuel taxes every time they come to hunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not trying to cause any harm to others at all. I get the profit from out of state hunters, I'm not saying don't allow them. Just one week is all for residents. I know non resident license are more, but us life long residents taxes have contributed to public lands and maintenance of the roads that lead to them. And we pay the fuel taxes daily. I'm all about non residents coming and sharing the wealth of our great state as I know many of my fellow sportsman travel to other states as well. Just saying 1 week. I don't think it would prevent non residents from coming.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I know you don't intend to harm anybody, that's why is said restrict.

Is everybody that lives in TN a lifelong resident? I know lots of people in TN who pay less taxes (some zero) than many NRs. My dad doesn't hunt his own farm he grew up on because he doesn't feel like he can justify paying SEVERAL hundred dollars to hunt it a few days around Thanksgiving or Christmas. TWRA already loses out on lots of money from my family (wife, brothers, father) because the license fees have gotten so high. TWRA got more money from my family in 2003 than it does now after two increases. Let's try to find something that makes you feel better without taking even MORE revenue away from TWRA.


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I think Tennessee now has a deal if you were born in Tennessee and you can prove you were.

You can by a Resident Licence even though you live elsewhere.... I have my miss read the rule but ....... I don't think so.

Yes sir, you are correct. Unfortunately my dad was born in California. He really should've considered this before being born to. a Navy serviceman during wartime.


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[cowhunter71]

Re: Thought experiment:What if we closed deer season for 1 y

Although I am a diehard turkey hunter, I do enjoy deer hunting, as we do like our venison. If deer season were to close for a year I would still kill my three Trophy hunters need to worry about their OWN deer, and stop worrying about mine. :moon: