The case for banning the fan. Outdoor life

[gasman]

Hahaha. At what point in any of this conversation has a single person against it said "you are doing it wrong"

Well, I guess technically they haven't. But.... Since you don't like the idea of fanning and think it's wrong to do so..... Hmm I rest my case.

 

[Setterman]

What do you not understand about that is NOT the problem? It's mainly the loss of habitat and predators. Same thing happened to the quail population. Nothing you or anyone else can do about it except stop new houses from being put up on every inch of land, or stop farmers from clearing out fence rows and small patches of woods so they can plant 3 more acres of cotton

Because it is a major cause of the problem and an easy part to fix. You can't change urban sprawl, only so many people have the time or desire to kill predators.

Do you think Alabama who just banned decoys for the first part of the season did so because they have an agenda other than protecting their flock? You are probably unaware but until recently decoys were illegal in alabama, they legalized Them and immediately their population started declining.

The downturns in population everywhere directly match up to the onslaught of male decoys becoming a popular tactic.

Why has hen nest initiation plummeted in recent years? the hens are there so habitat hasn't wiped them out, predators haven't killed them etc. Could it be they aren't initiating nests because they haven't been bred, because the dominant gobblers were killed prior to doing the deed?

These are facts, not the standard talking points of habitat and predators. Those are easy cop out excuses and yes they certainly have an impact as they have for decades, but This issue is being caused by something else and the evidence is damn sure pointing directly at dominant birds being taken too early by the usage of male decoys.

 

[gasman]

Because it is a major cause of the problem and an easy part to fix. You can't change urban sprawl, only so many people have the time or desire to kill predators.

Do you think Alabama who just banned decoys for the first part of the season did so because they have an agenda other than protecting their flock? You are probably unaware but until recently decoys were illegal in alabama, they legalized Them and immediately their population started declining.

The downturns in population everywhere directly match up to the onslaught of male decoys becoming a popular tactic.

Why has hen nest initiation plummeted in recent years? the hens are there so habitat hasn't wiped them out, predators haven't killed them etc. Could it be they aren't initiating nests because they haven't been bred, because the dominant gobblers were killed prior to doing the deed?

These are facts, not the standard talking points of habitat and predators. Those are easy cop out excuses and yes they certainly have an impact as they have for decades, but This issue is being caused by something else and the evidence is damn sure pointing directly at dominant birds being taken too early by the usage of male decoys.

Like I have said. You don't like something, therefore it's wrong. You hunt the way you want to hunt, let the other guy hunt the way he wants to, and I'll keep hunting 1 weekend a year and killing my 1 bird for the year and go back to fishing.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Like I have said. You don't like something, therefore it's wrong. You hunt the way you want to hunt, let the other guy hunt the way he wants to, and I'll keep hunting 1 weekend a year and killing my 1 bird for the year and go back to fishing.

Did you even read the mans post..? Correlation isn't causation but I am going with the biologist here.... About the time Primos came out with the Pretty Boy is when the downturn began...

 

[REN]

Well, I guess technically they haven't. But.... Since you don't like the idea of fanning and think it's wrong to do so..... Hmm I rest my case.

If I like it or not doesn't matter. I don't like Dr Pepper doesn't make it bad. I also didn't say it was "wrong" I said outlawing it will save some lives and help turkey populations. So you can take that how you want but that's facts in what I said

 

[deerfever]

Like I have said. You don't like something, therefore it's wrong. You hunt the way you want to hunt, let the other guy hunt the way he wants to, and I'll keep hunting 1 weekend a year and killing my 1 bird for the year and go back to fishing.

The problem is the tactic used doesn't necessarily involve just that one person. Again it's way beyond fans now, go watch people use the new gobblers on sticks they have created. People have been shot already and will continue to get shot. Two people are involved in that the one that gets behind something legal to shoot and then you got the poor guy that pulls the trigger. Do you reckon two lives just got changed forever? Ban it, especially on public, people are not smart , I witnessed this thing being used on a TN WMA . Again forget the impact on turkey populations for a minute. Does no one else see the safety issue with this method? To me it's a no brainer .

 

[prstide]

The case presented is that full strut decoys takes out a specific male, not just any male.
Id love to see a study on it to see if it is actually having a impact, I suspect it is, but it's speculation on my part hunting and watching turkeys for 25 years.

Thank you! Why is it people aren't understanding this?
It's not necessarily people wanting the method curtailed because they don't "like it" it's because they understand the likelihood of how it's affecting the flock. The dominant breeding Tom is being killed very early in the season and during peak breeding, because someone is sticking a full strut decoy in a field or creeping behind a fan, and it's affecting the social structure of the flock and likely causing hens to either not breed or be bred so late (after having to reset the dominance structure) that the nesting success and survival odds of the poults(if the hens are bred and nest) greatly decreases.
A limit is a limit and I don't care how you kill them as long as you do it legally. If fanning a bird is the only way some have success my wish would be that they could hunt with someone who could teach them safer, more traditional, and fair chase ways to hunt the wild turkey.

 

[prstide]

Because TWRA and really no one is addressing the predator or habitat issue! We need an open season on certain predators to thin that population out! They're just picking low hanging fruit (fanning) to say look what we did.

Killing hawks is illegal and would likely save more turkeys than any other predator you could kill.
I'll let you lead the charge in telling private landowners what they need to do with their land, on their own dime, in order to manage habitat better for wild turkeys. Let me know how that works out.

 

[timberjack86]

You wouldn't see any whining if we were killing 70,000 toms annually like TWRA predicted would be our plateau back in the early 2000s.

The most passionate turkey hunters are the ones that want to keep doing until they die. It's not a pasttime or a hobby. It's part of life itself. And usually the most passionate turkey hunters often have more knowledge and understanding of turkey behavior and turkey population dynamics.

Which is exactly why the most passionate turkey hunters are 'whining' as you put it.... because they understand there will be not be a huntable population of birds in TN in 20 years if current poor reproduction trends combined with excessive early gobbler harvests continue. We just won't find something else to hunt in the spring... or go fishing... we will still be turkey hunting 35 out of 42 days of the spring season even if we don't hear a single gobble. It is who we are.

But it frustrates the hell out of us when we see the writing on the wall. Everything is NOT OK. While none of us know for certain which regulation changes will reverse the population decline, we know that status quo is NOT an option. And we have precedent... quail and grouse.

So for goodness sake, DO SOMETHING TWRA... (and no, reducing limit from 4 to 3 does NOTHING... just a pacifier to quiet the pudding headed hunters).

And DO SOMETHING HUNTERS! Put back more than you take! Improve habitat, trap predators, self limit harvest early season, report poachers or those going over the limit, encourage landowners to take a vested interest in supporting turkeys. Or we won't have any to hunt in 20 years.

Of you arent running dp traps around your yard and barns right now, you are missing a golden opportunity. Easy to check in the mornings before work, and totally legal to remove the nuisance animals even after official trapping season is over. If you are taking more turkeys than you are giving back, you are part of the problem.

You can't legally trap raccoons now in TN now can you?

 

[Setterman]

Like I have said. You don't like something, therefore it's wrong. You hunt the way you want to hunt, let the other guy hunt the way he wants to, and I'll keep hunting 1 weekend a year and killing my 1 bird for the year and go back to fishing.

Reading comprehension isn't your strongest skill I see. It Is either that or you are just being obtuse at this point.

 

[poorhunter]

No way is the decline in turkey population related to habitat loss. Turkeys are way way too adaptable to live in a wide variety of habitats, and there are lots of prime habitat that have seen the major decline like where I live. Nest raiders kill more turkeys than any other factor, always have and always will. While other predators like hawks, eagles, owls, coyotes, bobcats do kill turkeys, the numbers they kill are minuscule in comparison. Killing nest raiders will help, but they have been around since turkeys have, they are not the cause of the decline.

 

[gasman]

Reading comprehension isn't your strongest skill I see. It Is either that or you are just being obtuse at this point.

I see it as you and several others are just being whiney little cry babies because you don't like the way someone does something. Facts.

 

[AT Hiker]

Thank you! Why is it people aren't understanding this?

No clue but every new page someone is having to remind someone else they are missing the point of the article.

 

[megalomaniac]

You can't legally trap raccoons now in TN now can you?

Perfectly legall to trap raccoons, possums, skunks year round if they are nuisance animals (in your yard and harassing your livestock, pets, damaging property). I wouldn't go set traps out on the back 40 this time of year. But if you live in the country and have outdoor pets which are fed, you probably have all 3 nest raiders coming into your yard nightly.

 

[Setterman]

I see it as you and several others are just being whiney little cry babies because you don't like the way someone does something. Facts.

Ha, yeah that's it. You have cracked the code lol

 

[paboom]

Late to this discussion but throwing out some data for consideration.

In 2006, Fanning was not a 'thing' yet (nor was YouTube hunting shows)

Based on the data from TWRA, it doesn't appear that the fanning has impacted harvest much. Age structure of the harvests are nearly identical too.

 

[SES]

Late to this discussion but throwing out some data for consideration.

In 2006, Fanning was not a 'thing' yet (nor was YouTube hunting shows)

Based on the data from TWRA, it doesn't appear that the fanning has impacted harvest much. Age structure of the harvests are nearly identical too.

View attachment 136644

 

[Buzzard Breath]

No way is the decline in turkey population related to habitat loss.

^^^^^THIS^^^^

Some of the best turkey hunting in the state also has some of the highest development rates.

 

[deerfever]

Late to this discussion but throwing out some data for consideration.In 2006, Fanning was not a 'thing' yet (nor was YouTube hunting shows)Based on the data from TWRA, it doesn't appear that the fanning has impacted harvest much. Age structure of the harvests are nearly identical too.View attachment 136644

What you don't have in your chart are the number of hunters taking part in 2006 versus now. If that's identical then you got something. I would be willing to bet there are lots more turkey hunters now than in 2006. I would also bet there are less turkeys in most parts of the state now than in 2006. If so we are killing the same amount of turkeys with less available because of more people hunting? So without knowing how many people actually turkey hunted I don't think you can conclude anything about impact of tactics or whatever, except harvest numbers are about the same in 2006 and now

 

[AT Hiker]

Late to this discussion but throwing out some data for consideration.

In 2006, Fanning was not a 'thing' yet (nor was YouTube hunting shows)

Based on the data from TWRA, it doesn't appear that the fanning has impacted harvest much. Age structure of the harvests are nearly identical too.

View attachment 136644

Poult per hen ratio in 2006 was 2.6, 2020 its 1.4. How do we have less turkeys but manage to kill a consistent number of them?
More hunters armed with more effective tactics, imo.