Tennesse Buck Totals for 2015 exceed 2014

[CAW]

Interesting comments on kids and hunting, or their lack of interest later in the season.
I wonder how much of that is tied to TV hunting shows where everyone kills a trophy animal?
A show on the other night showed a kid, maybe 12, who killed two monster Cape Buffalo. Really? What is there left to do after accomplished that once in a lifetime feat, twice?
Or the kids that kill trophy elk, mulies, etc.

I think that has a lot to do with it with certain kids. But it doesn't end there. Kids today are playing travel baseball and basketball year round, they have unlimited access to video games and online activities with their friends, cell phones, ipads, apps, etc. I'm guilty for playing a part of all of that as a Dad, my kids are involved in many of these things. It's just part of our culture today and very difficult to exclude them from all of it in a practical way. I try as hard as I can to keep them interested in outdoor activities. Sometimes I am successful and sometimes I am not. It's tough, especially with certain kids.

 

[AllOutdoors]

"Hunters in the know, let young bucks grow"

what the.....so are they impliing that hunters who shoot young bucks are idiots and should be made to feel belittled...Yea that's a good way to help the young and those new to hunting get interested in hunting.

With programs and attitudes like this, I can see hunting a rarity in 50 years.

There is nothing wrong with being selective and waiting on the buck you want. But I think it's the wrong way to try and introduce new hunters. If they hunt 3 years waiting on THAT buck then I could see them loosing interest. Let them deer hunt and as they grow in the sport they will begin to set personal goals if they choose.

My first deer at 10 yrs old was a small 3 point on Juvy hunt. It's one of my most prized trophies and favorite hunts. I wouldn't shoot it today but I sure would hate to have felt bad because I had shot a young buck at the time. Every fall when I smell wet leaves I remember that hunt, it was raining and for some reason that smell of wet fresh fallen leaves brings back memories of that hunt every year.

Agreed^^^

 

[TX300mag]

"Hunters in the know, let young bucks grow"

what the.....so are they impliing that hunters who shoot young bucks are idiots and should be made to feel belittled...Yea that's a good way to help the young and those new to hunting get interested in hunting.

With programs and attitudes like this, I can see hunting a rarity in 50 years.

There is nothing wrong with being selective and waiting on the buck you want. But I think it's the wrong way to try and introduce new hunters. If they hunt 3 years waiting on THAT buck then I could see them loosing interest. Let them deer hunt and as they grow in the sport they will begin to set personal goals if they choose.

My first deer at 10 yrs old was a small 3 point on Juvy hunt. It's one of my most prized trophies and favorite hunts. I wouldn't shoot it today but I sure would hate to have felt bad because I had shot a young buck at the time. Every fall when I smell wet leaves I remember that hunt, it was raining and for some reason that smell of wet fresh fallen leaves brings back memories of that hunt every year.

I don't understand this sentiment at all. I was probably 16 when I let my first young buck walk. Others in our deer camp called me a liar because of their "brown down" mentality. So I started taking pictures. They thought I was crazy. But 3 years in a row my dad or I killed the biggest and oldest buck in camp, right up until the guy lost the lease.

Even had one idiot claim unfairness because we had the "good spots" claimed.

Point being, I learned 2 things as a teenager that some don't seem to grasp as an adult.

1. There's often a bigger deer behind a smaller deer (and bigger bucks usually have the most meat)

2. Little deer grow up to be big deer.

The fact that people in this state get angry over being ENCOURAGED to practice qdm is astounding.

You want to hook a kid on hunting? A new hunter will lose their mind over ANY deer, does included.

But if you really want to hook a kid for life, teach him how to hunt and watch his face as he rides in on a 4 wheeler with a 180lb, 3,5 yo 9 point in tow.

That was life changing for me.

You won't understand the sentiment until you realize that different people hunt for different reasons and that may mean having different goals. The second step is coming to terms that it's OK.




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[Mike Belt]

Hypothetically, what happens if a kid shoots his 3rd buck, particularly early in the season? Is he no longer interested in hunting again? What do you do then? Raise the limit to 4? I'm all for involving kids in hunting and couldn't agree more that they are the future of our sport. I also agree that there's more to hunt than just deer. If a kid has the potential for loving the outdoors as we do any time spent there is worthwhile. You don't need dogs or much equipment to squirrel hunt, they can be found almost anywhere, and there is no better basic training for hunting any other game. You also don't have to be concerned about scores.

 

[CAW]

Hypothetically, what happens if a kid shoots his 3rd buck, particularly early in the season? Is he no longer interested in hunting again? What do you do then? Raise the limit to 4? I'm all for involving kids in hunting and couldn't agree more that they are the future of our sport. I also agree that there's more to hunt than just deer. If a kid has the potential for loving the outdoors as we do any time spent there is worthwhile. You don't need dogs or much equipment to squirrel hunt, they can be found almost anywhere, and there is no better basic training for hunting any other game. You also don't have to be concerned about scores.

Mike, while killing 3 in the early season is certainly possible, it is not very common. Like I said, 3 bucks seems like the right number to ME, especially when you look at how the season lays out. You and I obviously disagree on this issue and that's ok. I respect your opinion. I don't want to argue with you or anyone else on this forum, even though I guess that is exactly what I am doing every time I reply to this thread.

My passion is all about the kids and the future of the sport. I'm sure the majority of the people on this forum share that passion to some degree. Personally, I don't see a biologically sound reason to limit the number of bucks to 2, especially in middle TN inside of unit L. It is not uncommon to see 10 bucks per hunt in this part of the state. There is not a shortage of deer and I want the kids to have as many opportunities as possible to stay involved.

If you can keep kids involved with squirrel hunting, rabbit hunting or just shooting does, then great, that is awesome and my hat is off to you. The fact is that regardless of what you do, some kids will never become outdoor enthusiasts. Then you have another group of kids that will be eat up with the outdoors even if their only choice was to hunt chipmunks with a rock and fish with a shoestring. But there is a group in the middle that will go one way or the other based on their experiences and opportunities afforded to them. Those are the ones that we should be concerned with. I want as many of those kids to stay engaged in hunting.

Again, what biological harm would occur by simply keeping the limit at 3 for kids under 12? Based on what I know and the data I have looked at, I can't think of a single one.

Mike, I have much respect for you and for everyone else on this forum. I belong to several forums and this is my favorite by far. I may disagree with some of you from time to time, but I always value and respect your opinions as I know all of you have your heart in the right place regardless of whether we agree or not. I also recognize that we all have different life experiences, viewpoints on hunting in general and that I am wrong from time to time. I accept that and simply appreciate the dialogue.

 

[TNGunsmoke]

Just take a kid hunting for something if he bags his 2/3/whatever the limit is. We do not exclusively have to hunt deer. We have plenty of rabbits, squirrels, doves, ducks, and other varmints to pursue. We have trapping for fur bearers, we have tons of stuff to fish for, and fishing is just another form of hunting, we hunt for the spots the fish are biting and hunt for what they want to eat at that given time. There are plenty of opportunities to get kids into the outdoors for some kind of activity. Our problem is not lack of opportunity. If nothing else, camera hunts can keep some folks entertained, and can be a lot of fun for all, and educational for the next season.

 

[Mike Belt]

Agreed. No argument here but maybe a slight difference of opinion. I think the major barrier standing in the way of today's youth and the outdoors is TOO many distractions...or maybe better put, TOO many attractions. TV, sports, internet, cell phones, etc. weren't around when I became addicted to the outdoors. Sadly, I don't see a tradeoff with the outdoors winning.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . I will add is that times are much different than when we grew up (at least when I grew up). I have done the very best I can to be mentors to kids (including my own) and try and teach that time in the outdoors is much more than just killing a big buck. But frankly, it is difficult to compete with everything that they have going on. . . . . .

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am way off base on this one. I just think kids need as much opportunity as possible until they are at an age where the distractions are not that big of an issue anymore. I don't see the harm in moving their limit back to 3.

Totally agree with you about all the other things kids have competing for any time that could be used for going hunting. Not sure if the "distractions" (or other "attractions" for our time) become any less now going into adulthood.

I personally would have no problem with making the fall juvenile deer hunt as being a "bonus" buck (another way of potentially providing up to 3 bucks for a juvenile).

That said, as good as our intentions may be, we may often be taking things too far in making things too easy for our children, or maybe we're not always doing them such great favors by allowing them to have special privileges or exemptions from the rules they will be expected to follow as adults.

But just to be clear, I believe having an exclusive juvenile-only weekend (prior to everyone else getting to hunt with a gun) is already quite a special privilege of and within itself. And I continue to believe it's a good idea. But I've come to question the benefits of the post-season juvenile deer hunt, and believe it now maybe has become more harmful than helpful. Perhaps 2016 can be a great opportunity to make the fall juvenile hunt a weekend sooner, make it include a "bonus" buck, then eliminate the post-season juvenile hunt.

Much of my "issue" with the post-season juvenile hunt is regarding the current extremely low participation rate, and how just it being there adversely effects many other non-participating juveniles opportunities for going small-game (or waterfowl) hunting on this same weekend. Many hunting clubs will not allow any small game hunting on this weekend; many parents do not want to take their children small-game hunting during any open gun deer season.

 

[TheLBLman]

Hypothetically, what happens if a kid shoots his 3rd buck, particularly early in the season? Is he no longer interested in hunting again? What do you do then? Raise the limit to 4?

. . . . . . .
Mike, I have much respect for you and for everyone else on this forum. I belong to several forums and this is my favorite by far. I may disagree with some of you from time to time, but I always value and respect your opinions as I know all of you have your heart in the right place regardless of whether we agree or not. I also recognize that we all have different life experiences, viewpoints on hunting in general and that I am wrong from time to time. I accept that and simply appreciate the dialogue.

I just want to say I commend and appreciate the general attitudes of both Mike and CAW, not just within this thread, but in all their posts. I've never seen either of them post anything derogatory or insulting towards anyone else, no matter how selfish and insulting some posts have been made towards them.

We all learn more and better by our differences in opinions.
Sure would be boring around here if we all felt exactly the same about everything.

 

[AXL78]

You won't understand the sentiment until you realize that different people hunt for different reasons and that may mean having different goals. The second step is coming to terms that it's OK.

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Ive been an advocate that people should shoot what makes them happy. Period. The sentiment that I don't get is the perceived anger over QDM practices.

I always hear about these mythical hunters that only hunt for meat, don't care about antlers at all, would rather shoot a doe than a buck "but don't want to buy the 094 tag" etc. I have never met one, and I know a lot of hunters. I've met another person this year who claimed to be that way, and then spent half his time b******* about how he never sees big bucks and this guy who killed a nice buck is "lucky". Then when he killed a small yearling 4 point said he wanted to "put some meat in the freezer". That was this year.

Its laughable.

There are good examples of meat hunters on this site. They are out there, some have gone past the stage of trophy hunting, some haven't, so at some time they probably cared about antlers. I wouldn't say any deer hunter at some point didn't care about antlers to some degree, but it's level of importance varied. They have the same mindset as your everyday bream/crappie fisherman. Sure, they would love to catch a ten pound bass, but aren't going to overly concern themselves with it. Maybe one day when they drop that minnow by the tree, she will be there, but until then, they'll settle for a slab. There is also a segment of hunters that enjoy the aspect of shooting more than meat/antlers.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

It made zero impact on my farm. We killed the target number of bucks and cull/management bucks we intended to take out this season. We had to open my farm up to a couple of more guest than in years past to accomplish this but we got it done and the 2 buck rule failed to save any bucks on MY farm.

There are more than two ways to skin a cat as my father would say.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Notice how quiet this thread is compared to all the threads the 2-buck supporters were pushing early in the season talking about buck kills drastically being down? Lol

HA HA

 

[AXL78]

Notice how quiet this thread is compared to all the threads the 2-buck supporters were pushing early in the season talking about buck kills drastically being down? Lol

HA HA

as someone pointed out earlier the number of hunters who killed one buck this year was up almost 10,000.

without the limit change we probably would have seen a record buck harvest by far

I don't know, without all the vindictive killing due to the limit change, and the failure of the acorn crop, we could have set record lows in a normal year.-Just kidding

 

[Mike Belt]

I supported the idea of a 2 buck limit. I still do and I think it'll pay dividends down the road. We'll see.

I do have to make a blanket statement and that's something I try very hard not to do. It's concerning all the talk of meat hunters versus antler hunters versus trophy hunters. I could be wrong but I haven't met the man, woman, or child yet that could contradict this. Pick any rifle hunting scenario from any stand from any county at any time where any deer is legal. Put a couple of does and a 100" 8 pointer standing in front of you broadside at 40 yards and presenting wide open shots. Another 60 yards out put a 160" 8 pointer standing broadside and also presenting a wide open shot. I00% of the hunters would opt out of taking the "any" antlered buck or the "guaranteed" doe for meat and shoot for the larger antlered buck even though at 100 yards it would make for a tougher shot. There's no way you can convince me otherwise. That hunter would also have a little extra swagger in his step at any checking station. Admit it or not and to various degrees, we're all influenced by antlers.

 

[AXL78]

I agree Mike. However, the second shot should include a little more gamble than that, but even increasing the possibility of miss, most would take the 160 shot (by most I mean normal people), and they would have a little more swagger. It's nice to kill a deer that big. I do think everyone likes antlers, their priority varies.

 

[Land Between the Lakes]

If TN would have had a 3 buck limit more bucks would have been taken this season. So the 2 buck rule did save bucks.


Some people would have taken 3 bucks instead of just 2 this season under the 3 buck rule. But they could not do that since there was only a 2 buck rule.



Next year buck harvest could fall by several thousand, be the same, or be higher. It varies from year to year. That's why when limit changes are made you need at least 3 to 5 years to examine the results of the changes. You can't determine results after just one season.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

If TN would have had a 3 buck limit more bucks would have been taken this season. So the 2 buck rule did save bucks.


Some people would have taken 3 bucks instead of just 2 this season under the 3 buck rule. But they could not do that since there was only a 2 buck rule.



Next year buck harvest could fall by several thousand, be the same, or be higher. It varies from year to year. That's why when limit changes are made you need at least 3 to 5 years to examine the results of the changes. You can't determine results after just one season.

Whos to say?

There has been some arguments made that there were people that took some bucks out of (spite) because of the two buck rule. Regardless the data does not lie.

Seems like the two buck rule is working. LOL :moon:

 

[AXL78]

Land Between the Lakes, I see you brought those big posts to the top. They clearly show some great bucks, but I don't understand the purpose, as they show what already existed. Not calling you out, just wondering, because I was under the impression you supported the 2 buck limit, or the herds need for more older age bucks.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

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[Vermin93]

If TN would have had a 3 buck limit more bucks would have been taken this season. So the 2 buck rule did save bucks.


Some people would have taken 3 bucks instead of just 2 this season under the 3 buck rule. But they could not do that since there was only a 2 buck rule.



Next year buck harvest could fall by several thousand, be the same, or be higher. It varies from year to year. That's why when limit changes are made you need at least 3 to 5 years to examine the results of the changes. You can't determine results after just one season.

Whos to say?

There has been some arguments made that there were people that took some bucks out of (spite) because of the two buck rule. Regardless the data does not lie.

Seems like the two buck rule is working. LOL :moon:

If the data does not lie, then what are your thoughts on the data that shows the antlerless buck harvest plummeted over 70% with over 7000 fewer antlerless bucks killed this season compared to last season?

9/1/2014 - 1/8/2015
Antlered bucks: 76,233
"Antlerless" bucks: 10,514
Button bucks: 8,109
Total bucks: 94,856

9/1/2015 - 1/8/016
Antlered bucks: 78,293
"Antlerless" bucks: 3,047
Button bucks: 8,216
Total bucks: 89,556

94,856 - 89,556 = 5,300 fewer bucks killed this season than last season....most of which are probably yearlings.