Tennesse Buck Totals for 2015 exceed 2014

[AXL78]

Opinions do differ, and we all could make a list or analogy to support one side or the other. One question is, can our deer herd support a 3 buck limit with no harm done. The percentage of successful hunters that went 3 deep is pretty low, almost irrelevant, so would it hurt if people had the opportunity to kill 3. In my opinion-no, in a lot of others, it would be healthier for the herd. The biggest question is how unhealthy was the herd, I mean what harm is done by providing a 3rd tag. I hate to use the numbers for this year, it is unfair, but theoretically speaking, lowering the limit didn't save any, and previous years numbers were used to show that a limit change probably wouldn't reduce buck harvest. It could be argued that from a psychological standpoint it may make people more selective out of fear of running out of tags, but how important is it in the grand scheme of things if a doe is bred by a 2.5 or 3.5. Really.

 

[CAW]

If we don't move it back for everyone, then at least let the kids take three. It will have little to no impact on the overall numbers, but could make a huge difference in keeping them interested in hunting. It's hard enough for many dads as it is.

Mike - the speed people can or can not drive has no impact on the number of drivers 10 years down the road. Do kids want to drive faster? Sure they do, but there is no sound reason to allow them to do so. I believe that allowing kids to kill 3 bucks to keep them interested in hunting is a sound reason to move the limit back to 3 for them.

I am all for the kids. I have never killed 3 bucks in one season in TN and have no plans to do so. But I do want to make sure my sons, nephews and other kids stay interested in the sport.

My suggestion would be to allow one archery tag and two either choice tags. That way they could kill one in the early season, one around opening day and still have one left over for the rest of the season. Kids that only gun hunt would still have two tags for gun season. That would keep most of them "engaged" longer.

The bottom line is that hunter numbers are on the decline. We should be doing everything possible to keep that from happening and everything possible to keep kids engaged. One day, these kids will be making the laws and if they don't care about hunting, it will not be good for those that do.

 

[CAW]

I stand corrected. I guess Youth season has always been the same "weekend" but this year Halloween happened to fall on a Saturday. In the past, when Halloween fell during the week, it really didn't matter. It would have been nice if someone would have recognized that when seasons were set and made a change to eliminate the conflict.

That being said, I would like to see them permanently move the "youth weekend" to the 3rd weekend in October or the first weekend in November. The less conflicts the better.

 

[CAW]

Opinions do differ, and we all could make a list or analogy to support one side or the other. One question is, can our deer herd support a 3 buck limit with no harm done. The percentage of successful hunters that went 3 deep is pretty low, almost irrelevant, so would it hurt if people had the opportunity to kill 3. In my opinion-no, in a lot of others, it would be healthier for the herd. The biggest question is how unhealthy was the herd, I mean what harm is done by providing a 3rd tag. I hate to use the numbers for this year, it is unfair, but theoretically speaking, lowering the limit didn't save any, and previous years numbers were used to show that a limit change probably wouldn't reduce buck harvest. It could be argued that from a psychological standpoint it may make people more selective out of fear of running out of tags, but how important is it in the grand scheme of things if a doe is bred by a 2.5 or 3.5. Really.

Agree.

 

[blueball]

I think that TWRA made two HUGE mistakes this year when it comes to the future of our sport...

1. Moving youth weekend to compete with Halloween. Kids have so many other things to distract them from hunting, the last thing we needed to do was add one more. Having kids decide between Halloween with their friends or hunting was totally unnecessary and just a bad idea.

2. The two buck limit is really bad for kids. When it first came out, I was all in favor of it and thought it would help our age structure. But after experiencing the impact of the law when it comes to kids, I do not like it one bit. Kids like to shoot deer and very few of them are going to hold out for 3.5+ year old deer. For example, my son killed one with his bow and one with his gun. The deer he killed with his bow was 2.5, the one he killed with his gun was 3.5. He was tagged out by Thanksgiving. Christmas break rolls around and he is not really that interested in hunting anymore since he his tagged out. If he had one more tag, he could have kept hunting even if he didn't kill another buck.

The other issue is that there are no "real" tags. With no real tag system, the 2 buck limit makes no sense to me. The guys that were selective before are still being selective and are likely killing 1-2 bucks a season. The guys that weren't selective are still killing the same deer and probably using their wive's or kids license to keep on killing.

I say we go back to 3 to give the kids more opportunity, that's my vote. Oh, and move the dang youth hunt off of Halloween!

i like two bucks for everyone,took my friends 11yr old boy and got him a nice eight pointer.i hunt on there land and his dad was working so i took him ,have carried him with me off and on for years when he wants to go.At the first of season he wasnt gonna shoot nothing smaller than a 10,his first buck was a 9 hunting with his uncle.the last day of season they saw a nice 10 while they were feeding the cows and his daddy told him it would be bigger next year and said his eyes got real big thinking about it,lol.Kids can also shoot does ,if there no sport in shooting does maybe they need to reduce the doe daily limit.

 

[Vermin93]

I don't support a 3-buck limit for youth hunters or the idea that some have proposed of making the first full weekend of Nov one of the 2 young sportsman hunts. If 2 bucks, bonus bucks and doe opportunities aren't enough to keep Tennessee youth interested in hunting, then there are small game opportunities that can be taken advantage of. Other states get along just fine with a 2-buck limit for all hunters and more restrictive doe opportunities than Tennessee. On that note, biologists with Oklahoma's version of TWRA are in the midst of a multi-year deer hunter education initiative that they've branded "Hunters in the Know, let Young Bucks Grow" with the purpose of protecting yearling bucks and improving the age structure of the deer herd. Of course some will disagree with that philosophy partially or entirely, but I think TFWC is steering Tennessee in that direction and I'm supportive of that.

I hope all the Tennessee youths hunting this weekend are able to take advantage of the opportunity they have to shoot a buck and/or a doe.

 

[blueball]

i will say this too,the youth hunt is not the only hunt to carry your kids on.We carry my friends boy all season long,or anytime he wants to go

 

[megalomaniac]

I would still contend that if there is no difference between harvests between a 2 buck limit and a 3 buck limit, simply because so few people shot 3 bucks annually under last year's regs, that there would be no difference in having a 4, 5, 6 or unlimited buck limit. I would MUCH rather see TN go to an unlimited buck limit rather than go back to a 3 buck limit. That way those that prefer to kill 15 or 20 bucks if they so desired would be allowed to do so, and the few that want to only shoot 1 could also do so. It's a win for everyone. Most of us that hunt for meat would much rather shoot a buck than a doe, and that would allow us to fill a couple freezers with only bucks.

 

[Vermin93]

Most of us that hunt for meat would much rather shoot a buck than a doe, and that would allow us to fill a couple freezers with only bucks.

I enjoy your sense of humor. :lol:

 

[AXL78]

That's pretty good megalomaniac. You have me there.

 

[AXL78]

What is the break even point though. Can that be calculated. At what point can an honest difference be seen. Obviously I don't believe 2 is the answer.

 

[WG Taxidermist]

I do not in any way support the 2 buck limit for numerous reasons. I agree with the statement that hunter numbers are declining. In my area I can see a big decline in hunters in comparison to just 5 year ago. As far as the kids I think it would be a great idea for them to get to shoot a 3rd buck! I really don't understand what difference it would make anyway because alot of the 2 buck supporters get their 3rd buck anyway and just call it a BONUS buck.

Sent from somewhere in the sticks using Tapatalk

 

[megalomaniac]

Most of us that hunt for meat would much rather shoot a buck than a doe, and that would allow us to fill a couple freezers with only bucks.

I enjoy your sense of humor. :lol:

You just can't beat beef! That's why I kill a 1400lb steer annually And my family of 5 will eat him in a year! (although we may all die of heart disease in our 50's, I just can't give it up! )

 

[TheLBLman]

Let me preface my post by saying I am normally in near total agreement with CAW's thoughts, but have just a little different "take" this time.

1. . . . . Having kids decide between Halloween with their friends or hunting was totally unnecessary and just a bad idea.

I absolutely agree that this juvenile weekend should NOT be on the same weekend as Halloween.
I believe it should be moved up a weekend sooner (then it would never compete with Halloween).

2. The two buck limit is really bad for kids. . . . . Kids like to shoot deer and very few of them are going to hold out for 3.5+ year old deer.

As you said, kids like to shoot "deer". Does a kid have to shoot a "buck" to enjoy deer hunting?
Just who is it that is insinuating any kid should be holding out for a 3.5+ year old deer?
Certainly there is nothing in the regs even remotely suggesting any such thing.

For example, my son killed one with his bow and one with his gun. . . . . . He was tagged out by Thanksgiving. Christmas break rolls around and he is not really that interested in hunting anymore since he his tagged out.

I think that is just FANTASTIC your son was able to kill a deer during archery season and another with his gun, before Thanksgiving.

My thoughts now shift to "why" does he no longer have much interest in HUNTING?

Instead of buck limits, I believe the biggest threat to our youth developing a lifelong passion for HUNTING may in fact be DEER hunting, and even more specifically their mentors emphasizing that mainly or only the bucks "count" towards deer hunting success.

Let me explain where I'm coming from.
Back when I was a "kid", a much higher percentage of kids hunted, and in fact developed a lifelong passion for HUNTING. But it wasn't just deer hunting, it was HUNTING, period. While those lifelong passions developed by kids in my generation often include a great passion for deer hunting, it's my strong belief that the totality of all the various forms of hunting did more to make us lifetime hunters than the deer hunting itself.

Most of the "kids" I grew up with hunting, they still hunt today. By contrast, I can tell you that many kids who are mainly just taken deer hunting never develop into lifetime hunters. Interestingly, when I was a kid, there was no special "juvenile" weekend. We didn't even have a muzzleloader season. In fact, "deer season" (other than archery) didn't begin until a few days before Thanksgiving. If my memory serves correct, back then our deer season lasted about 10 days, then closed, although I'm not sure when a late December "season segment" was added. We also, here in Tennessee, had a 1-buck limit when I started deer hunting.

So how did I develop such a passion for HUNTING?

I believe it was because my mentors took me hunting for lots of different things, and never over-emphasized just deer hunting. Yes, kids like to shoot deer, but they also like to shoot wild game, period. They can typically get a lot more shooting (as well as help develop "in the field" shooting skills) by dove or waterfowl hunting. They may also be able to develop more fundamental hunting skills by spending more time pursuing squirrels than deer.

Reflecting back, I feel blessed to have grown up in a time when Tennessee's deer hunting culture wasn't so dominating. It wasn't that I didn't get to deer hunt and enjoy it, but I often couldn't wait for the morning deer hunt to end, just so I could then spend the mid-day hunting rabbits with beagles, or quail with "bird" dogs. I was blessed to have a Grandfather and Uncle who had both beagles and bird dogs, and pursued all types of hunting adventures. My typical deer hunting day included either rabbit or quail hunting during that same day. I can tell you, from my juvenile perspective, the rabbit and quail hunting were typically much more exciting and involved a lot more shooting.

Before the annual deer season opened (right before Thanksgiving), all available "hunting" time was spent squirrel hunting in the mornings, dove hunting in the evenings. If dove season wasn't open, it was more squirrel hunting. Then in early November, rabbit & quail season would open. Yep, deer season opened right before Thanksgiving, and sometimes the most exciting aspect was knowing we'd start duck hunting as soon as deer season ended.

IMO, lifetime passions for hunting have little to do with how many deer get killed or not killed, and even less to do with buck limits.

. . . . My son . . . . If he had one more tag, he could have kept hunting even if he didn't kill another buck.

I don't understand this statement.

 

[Headhunter]

juveniles should get first full weekend in November, PERIOD! That is the way it was for years and that is the way it should be.

 

[CAW]

Some of you are just being stubborn. Or, maybe it's just me!

But seriously, what biological harm can it have on our herd to allow kids to have the opportunity to take three as they have in the past? The vast majority of them won't kill three and even if they did, it would have very minimal impact on the overall harvest. BUT, the GOOD that could come from keeping kids involved in deer hunting could be priceless. We should WANT them to keep hunting. And maybe it should just apply to the kids 12/13 and under. Once they have hit 13/14, the hunting bug is either in them or it's not. It wouldn't matter as much for those kids. But the younger ones? We NEED to keep them interested now more than ever. You can say they can hunt small game, shoot does, whatever, but I have seen it with lots of kids - competing with all the distractions we have today is very difficult for them. I want them to have as many opportunities as possible.

And look guys, don't get me wrong, I am all for passing deer and allowing them to grow. I try to manage my farms as closely as anyone. The days of seeing how many deer I can kill have long past me, that's for sure. I most certainly get more satisfaction out of managing the land and taking other hunters than killing deer myself. BUT when you have DECLINING hunter numbers, why on earth would you reduce the opportunities to the very group you need to keep interested and help ensure the future?? Can someone explain that to me? Is there any biological or even a financial reason to reduce opportunities for kids? I can't think of any. It just doesn't make any sense.

Through the years I have taken LOTS of kids on my farms. 13 kids have killed their first deer on my farms and all of them are still hunting today. I want to make sure they stay interested. Three bucks just seems like right number to me. Many of these kids will kill one on the youth hunt and then again on opening day. With a third tag, they can keep hunting through the rest of the year including the very important family time during Christmas break. Without one, we run the risk of them losing interest and moving on to something else.

I respect ALL of you guys and value your opinion, I just have a lot of passion for this. Again, maybe I am the one being stubborn. It won't be the first time, that's for sure!

 

[CAW]

Let me preface my post by saying I am normally in near total agreement with CAW's thoughts, but have just a little different "take" this time.

1. . . . . Having kids decide between Halloween with their friends or hunting was totally unnecessary and just a bad idea.

I absolutely agree that this juvenile weekend should NOT be on the same weekend as Halloween.
I believe it should be moved up a weekend sooner (then it would never compete with Halloween).

2. The two buck limit is really bad for kids. . . . . Kids like to shoot deer and very few of them are going to hold out for 3.5+ year old deer.

As you said, kids like to shoot "deer". Does a kid have to shoot a "buck" to enjoy deer hunting?
Just who is it that is insinuating any kid should be holding out for a 3.5+ year old deer?
Certainly there is nothing in the regs even remotely suggesting any such thing.

For example, my son killed one with his bow and one with his gun. . . . . . He was tagged out by Thanksgiving. Christmas break rolls around and he is not really that interested in hunting anymore since he his tagged out.

I think that is just FANTASTIC your son was able to kill a deer during archery season and another with his gun, before Thanksgiving.

My thoughts now shift to "why" does he no longer have much interest in HUNTING?

Instead of buck limits, I believe the biggest threat to our youth developing a lifelong passion for HUNTING may in fact be DEER hunting, and even more specifically their mentors emphasizing that mainly or only the bucks "count" towards deer hunting success.

Let me explain where I'm coming from.
Back when I was a "kid", a much higher percentage of kids hunted, and in fact developed a lifelong passion for HUNTING. But it wasn't just deer hunting, it was HUNTING, period. While those lifelong passions developed by kids in my generation often include a great passion for deer hunting, it's my strong belief that the totality of all the various forms of hunting did more to make us lifetime hunters than the deer hunting itself.

Most of the "kids" I grew up with hunting, they still hunt today. By contrast, I can tell you that many kids who are mainly just taken deer hunting never develop into lifetime hunters. Interestingly, when I was a kid, there was no special "juvenile" weekend. We didn't even have a muzzleloader season. In fact, "deer season" (other than archery) didn't begin until a few days before Thanksgiving. If my memory serves correct, back then our deer season lasted about 10 days, then closed, although I'm not sure when a late December "season segment" was added. We also, here in Tennessee, had a 1-buck limit when I started deer hunting.

So how did I develop such a passion for HUNTING?

I believe it was because my mentors took me hunting for lots of different things, and never over-emphasized just deer hunting. Yes, kids like to shoot deer, but they also like to shoot wild game, period. They can typically get a lot more shooting (as well as help develop "in the field" shooting skills) by dove or waterfowl hunting. They may also be able to develop more fundamental hunting skills by spending more time pursuing squirrels than deer.

Reflecting back, I feel blessed to have grown up in a time when Tennessee's deer hunting culture wasn't so dominating. It wasn't that I didn't get to deer hunt and enjoy it, but I often couldn't wait for the morning deer hunt to end, just so I could then spend the mid-day hunting rabbits with beagles, or quail with "bird" dogs. I was blessed to have a Grandfather and Uncle who had both beagles and bird dogs, and pursued all types of hunting adventures. My typical deer hunting day included either rabbit or quail hunting during that same day. I can tell you, from my juvenile perspective, the rabbit and quail hunting were typically much more exciting and involved a lot more shooting.

Before the annual deer season opened (right before Thanksgiving), all available "hunting" time was spent squirrel hunting in the mornings, dove hunting in the evenings. If dove season wasn't open, it was more squirrel hunting. Then in early November, rabbit & quail season would open. Yep, deer season opened right before Thanksgiving, and sometimes the most exciting aspect was knowing we'd start duck hunting as soon as deer season ended.

IMO, lifetime passions for hunting have little to do with how many deer get killed or not killed, and even less to do with buck limits.

. . . . My son . . . . If he had one more tag, he could have kept hunting even if he didn't kill another buck.

I don't understand this statement.

We're really not in much disagreement. But I will add is that times are much different than when we grew up (at least when I grew up). I have done the very best I can to be mentors to kids (including my own) and try and teach that time in the outdoors is much more than just killing a big buck. But frankly, it is difficult to compete with everything that they have going on. Even my son, as addicted as he is, will lose interest in deer hunting once he is tagged out on bucks. Is that a bad thing? Probably so, but it is what it is. Is he alone? I doubt it.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am way off base on this one. I just think kids need as much opportunity as possible until they are at an age where the distractions are not that big of an issue anymore. I don't see the harm in moving their limit back to 3.

 

[huntinkev]

"Hunters in the know, let young bucks grow"

what the.....so are they impliing that hunters who shoot young bucks are idiots and should be made to feel belittled...Yea that's a good way to help the young and those new to hunting get interested in hunting.

With programs and attitudes like this, I can see hunting a rarity in 50 years.

There is nothing wrong with being selective and waiting on the buck you want. But I think it's the wrong way to try and introduce new hunters. If they hunt 3 years waiting on THAT buck then I could see them loosing interest. Let them deer hunt and as they grow in the sport they will begin to set personal goals if they choose.

My first deer at 10 yrs old was a small 3 point on Juvy hunt. It's one of my most prized trophies and favorite hunts. I wouldn't shoot it today but I sure would hate to have felt bad because I had shot a young buck at the time. Every fall when I smell wet leaves I remember that hunt, it was raining and for some reason that smell of wet fresh fallen leaves brings back memories of that hunt every year.

 

[Vermin93]

"Hunters in the know, let young bucks grow"

what the.....so are they impliing that hunters who shoot young bucks are idiots and should be made to feel belittled...Yea that's a good way to help the young and those new to hunting get interested in hunting.

With programs and attitudes like this, I can see hunting a rarity in 50 years.

There is nothing wrong with being selective and waiting on the buck you want. But I think it's the wrong way to try and introduce new hunters. If they hunt 3 years waiting on THAT buck then I could see them loosing interest. Let them deer hunt and as they grow in the sport they will begin to set personal goals if they choose.

My first deer at 10 yrs old was a small 3 point on Juvy hunt. It's one of my most prized trophies and favorite hunts. I wouldn't shoot it today but I sure would hate to have felt bad because I had shot a young buck at the time. Every fall when I smell wet leaves I remember that hunt, it was raining and for some reason that smell of wet fresh fallen leaves brings back memories of that hunt every year.

Here's the pitch right here. Click play at 19:43.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR-4ddOIEGw&feature=youtu.be&t=19m43s

 

[LanceS4803]

Interesting comments on kids and hunting, or their lack of interest later in the season.
I wonder how much of that is tied to TV hunting shows where everyone kills a trophy animal?
A show on the other night showed a kid, maybe 12, who killed two monster Cape Buffalo. Really? What is there left to do after accomplished that once in a lifetime feat, twice?
Or the kids that kill trophy elk, mulies, etc.