Smokeless question

Bone Collector

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Location
Murfreesboro, TN
I've been wanting one but it appears the only way to get one is DIY, or custom build.

Some of the customs are stupid expensive, but others are not horrible. Issue is they want you to pick all the specs, I.e. barrel length, twist, etc.

Idk anything about stuff like that.

1. Why is there no smokeless offerings from conventional manufacturers?
2. Who is a reputable builder that will not break the bank and is easy to work with?
 

Tenntrapper

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Aug 29, 2016
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9,309
I've been wanting one but it appears the only way to get one is DIY, or custom build.

Some of the customs are stupid expensive, but others are not horrible. Issue is they want you to pick all the specs, I.e. barrel length, twist, etc.

Idk anything about stuff like that.

1. Why is there no smokeless offerings from conventional manufacturers?
2. Who is a reputable builder that will not break the bank and is easy to work with?
You need to speak with @jlanecr500
 

jlanecr500

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Messages
2,930
Savage did manufacture a smokeless ml for several years until a disgruntled one of their own set out to destroy the company. The answer to your question is liability. You are basically reloading right in your barrel with NO case volume to worry about. It is easy to double load one. If it's a really light load, it may just bulge the barrel. Double load a hot load and it becomes a pipe bomb with your head and arms wrapped around it. This is why I preach marking your ramrod on a loaded gun. I make my collapsible ramrod to allow 1" of ramrod showing on a loaded gun.

First, you have to realistically decide a few things.

1) distances you intend to shoot.
2) do you intend to carry this gun in the woods or just to a shooting house.
3) do you want it to be an all weather gun.
4) will you be using it in a climber.
 

Bone Collector

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Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
19,639
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
Savage did manufacture a smokeless ml for several years until a disgruntled one of their own set out to destroy the company. The answer to your question is liability. You are basically reloading right in your barrel with NO case volume to worry about. It is easy to double load one. If it's a really light load, it may just bulge the barrel. Double load a hot load and it becomes a pipe bomb with your head and arms wrapped around it. This is why I preach marking your ramrod on a loaded gun. I make my collapsible ramrod to allow 1" of ramrod showing on a loaded gun.

First, you have to realistically decide a few things.

1) distances you intend to shoot.
2) do you intend to carry this gun in the woods or just to a shooting house.
3) do you want it to be an all weather gun.
4) will you be using it in a climber.
thanks for the reply. Answers in red.

1) distances you intend to shoot. At least 200, but maybe out to 300. I have a power line on my property. ML is the best time to hunt. Deer like to find a way (no matter what I do) to cross at 2-250 and that is a poke with an inline.
2) do you intend to carry this gun in the woods or just to a shooting house. Both.
3) do you want it to be an all weather gun. i would think yes.
4) will you be using it in a climber. most likely at some point. And for sure ladder stands.
 

1984dog

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Mar 24, 2022
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Mississippi
I would look hard at converting a CVA Scout V2 (45-70) into a smokeless ML. If you go to youtube and search, you will be impressed at the accuracy of these guns. There is a guy in Kentucky that has this method mastered (gun, powder, and bullets). You can probably get one for less than $1K if you purchase the gun yourself and ship the barrel to him for machining/conversion. These are less than 1 MOA guns with ranges out to 300 yards.
 

philsanchez76

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Jul 6, 2019
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Location
Middle TN
I would look hard at converting a CVA Scout V2 (45-70) into a smokeless ML. If you go to youtube and search, you will be impressed at the accuracy of these guns. There is a guy in Kentucky that has this method mastered (gun, powder, and bullets). You can probably get one for less than $1K if you purchase the gun yourself and ship the barrel to him for machining/conversion. These are less than 1 MOA guns with ranges out to 300 yards.
I went this route a few years ago. $400 or so for a stainless CVA scout in 45-70 and $400 for Jeff Hankins to convert it. I believe its the best way to get the lightest weight muzzleloader. I specifically wanted this because I exclusively hunt public and haul this thing all over the woods. What I gave up was being able to shoot very very heavy loads because the single shot is a weaker action and has a thinner barrel than some of the other heavy guns. Ive only shot mine to 200 yards but its still dead on out to that. im sure 300 wouldn't be much of a stretch.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Middle Tennessee
I've been wanting one but it appears the only way to get one is DIY, or custom build.

Some of the customs are stupid expensive, but others are not horrible. Issue is they want you to pick all the specs, I.e. barrel length, twist, etc.

Idk anything about stuff like that.

1. Why is there no smokeless offerings from conventional manufacturers?
If I had to guess, it was because there were stupid people putting the wrong types of powder in there and blowing themselves up. There's a lot of people out there who just think powder is powder, and don't understand the massive nuance between something like a slow burning shotgun powder and a fast burning pistol powder. Liability could be an issue. "I put smokeless powder in this gun that said it was rated for smokeless, and it blew up".
2. Who is a reputable builder that will not break the bank and is easy to work with?
Check out modernmuzzleloader.com there's a handful of guys over there who still build stuff like that and sell it.
 

jlanecr500

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Messages
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I've had several 45-70 conversions that I ended up selling to friends. I still have an H&R stainless ultrahunter conversion that I carry occasionally when I'm walking a lot, using a climber, etc . Like @Andy S. Said, they are awesome little guns that would get your feet wet on a budget. It's light, short, all weather and easy to handle. I've never shot it past 200 although it would do it no problem. If I was planning to shoot 200 and beyond, I would carry one of my customs. Not because it can't do it but because the light loads that are safe in it leave me wanting a heavier projectile and more velocity at those longer ranges. The max load I would shoot in a conversion would be a 250gr projectile at approx 2500 fps.

Weight. Velocity. Drop at 200
250 startup. 2500fps. 5"
275 Aeromax 3000fps. 2.8"
300 Aeromax 2900fps 3.2"
I'm a Savage guy. ALL of the customs I have built for myself are Savage. The gun in the pic below is a short action Savage with a boyds stock pillar bedded and accutrigger set to 2 pounds. The barrel is an EABCO Savage accuracy barrel 26" chambered in 450 Marlin. The chamber was bored and threaded for a Hankins LRMP ignition system. The bolt head for modules is from Arrowhead (you don't have to have it but it sure keeps your module in place). You can use the recoil lug and nut from the action donor gun or buy new ones from Arrowhead. I named this gun "Black Betty". WGK liked it so well, he ended up buying it from me. With a gun like this, you can shoot a 275gr projectile at approx 3000 fps or a 300gr at 2800 to 2900 fps. Shooting a high bc bullet like the Pittman Aeromax, will reduce your drops at range. See above specs.
Hankins ignition system $162.50
Barrel. $300.00
Chamber plug. $100.00
Bolt head for modules. $ 90.00
Donor action/gun
Stock of your choice

10 lb
BLACK BETTY.jpg


The next gun is a Savage RBRP model 12 target action. It has a solid bottom and 3 action screws. It comes with the target version of the accutrigger. It is also large shank which makes it superior to a Remington 700 in the strength category as it has a larger tenon. The stock is an HS Precision with aluminum bedding block that most likely will not need to be bedded. The barrel is a match grade cut rifled 40 cal barrel from Rock Creek Barrels the started life as a 408 cheytac blank. The barrel is 20" long. It shoots a 300gr Pittman Aeromax at 2750 fps. Her name is "Shorty Forty" She is a laser.

You can buy a Savage prefit in your desired length and caliber with ignition system and brake for less than $1000.00
(Personal preference, I don't like a brake on a hunting rifle for 2 reasons. Loud for shooter and must use a funnel to load the gun) You can always use a thread protector.
Stock is right at $400.00
Action is $600.00
Can be assembled in no time with a barrel nut wrench.
11 lb (one day I'm gonna drive the barrel out to bug holes for a little weight loss fluting job)

20180917_124057.jpg


We could go further as I have a bench 40 with a 28" Rock Creek barrel with no barrel nut on a Savage short action pillar bedded in a Boyd's target stock. It shoots a 300, 325, or 350gr projectile well over 3000 fps. At 1000 yards it performs along side a 338 lapua magnum ballistically. At 14.5 lb You don't need anything like that.

All the above can be done with a Remington 700 except the bolt head pictured below.
20211031_163408.jpg

If you're set on Remington actions, the MESA precision ml action is a good deal. At $900.00 it comes with a bolt nose set up for modules and a scope rail that is pinned to the action. All you would need is a trigger. If you watched the video I posted not long ago, the MESA action was in the build that Bill Travis and Kyle Pittman shot over 1 mile.


 
Last edited:

EastTNHunter

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Location
Rhea Co., TN
I've had several 45-70 conversions that I ended up selling to friends. I still have an H&R stainless ultrahunter conversion that I carry occasionally. It's light, short, all weather and easy to handle. I've never shot it past 200 although it would do it no problem. If I was planning to shoot 200 and beyond, I would carry one of my customs. Not because it can't do it but because the light loads that are safe in it leave me wanting a heavier projectile and more velocity at those longer ranges. The max load I would shoot in a conversion would be a 250gr projectile at approx 2500 fps.

Weight. Velocity. Drop at 200
250 startup. 2500fps. 5"
275 Aeromax 3000fps. 2.8"
300 Aeromax 2900fps 3.2"
I'm a Savage guy. ALL of the customs I have built for myself are Savage. The gun in the pic below is a short action Savage with a boyds stock pillar bedded and accutrigger set to 2 pounds. The barrel is an EABCO Savage accuracy barrel 26" chambered in 450 Marlin. The chamber was bored and threaded for a Hankins LRMP ignition system. The bolt head for modules is from Arrowhead (you don't have to have it but it sure keeps your module in place). You can use the recoil lug and nut from the action donor gun or buy new ones from Arrowhead. I named this gun "Black Betty". WGK liked it so well, he ended up buying it from me. With a gun like this, you can shoot a 275gr projectile at approx 3000 fps or a 300gr at 2800 to 2900 fps. Shooting a high bc bullet like the Pittman Aeromax, will reduce your drops at range. See above specs.
Hankins ignition system $162.50
Barrel. $300.00
Chamber plug. $100.00
Bolt head for modules. $ 90.00
Donor action/gun
Stock of your choice

10 lbView attachment 205196

The next gun is a Savage RBRP model 12 target action. It has a solid bottom and 3 action screws. It comes with the target version of the accutrigger. It is also large shank which makes it superior to a Remington 700 in the strength category as it has a larger tenon. The stock is an HS Precision with aluminum bedding block that most likely will not need to be bedded. The barrel is a match grade cut rifled 40 cal barrel from Rock Creek Barrels the started life as a 408 cheytac blank. The barrel is 20" long. It shoots a 300gr Pittman Aeromax at 2750 fps. Her name is "Shorty Forty" She is a laser.

You can buy a Savage prefit in your desired length and caliber with ignition system and brake for less than $1000.00
(Personal preference, I don't like a brake on a hunting rifle for 2 reasons. Loud for shooter and must use a funnel to load the gun) You can always use a thread protector.
Stock is right at $400.00
Action is $600.00
Can be assembled in no time with a barrel nut wrench.
11 lb (one day I'm gonna drive the barrel out to bug holes for a little weight loss fluting job)

View attachment 205206

We could go further as I have a bench 40 with a 28" Rock Creek barrel with no barrel nut on a Savage short action pillar bedded in a Boyd's target stock. It shoots a 300, 325, or 350gr projectile well over 3000 fps. At 1000 yards it performs along side a 338 lapua magnum ballistically. At 14.5 lb You don't need anything like that.

All the above can be done with a Remington 700 except the bolt head pictured below.
View attachment 205207
Who did you have to thread your barrels for the breech plugs?
 

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