This comment confirmed the YouTubers story that the only guns with the issue were SS.
Savage Smokeless Explosion
- Thread starter TboneD
- Start date
This comment confirmed the YouTubers story that the only guns with the issue were SS.
As well as this one.
I've had mine and hunted with it every year for the past 15 or so years. I use the exact powder and measure it calls for from the book along with a 300 gr bullet. Never had a reason to change it as it is deadly. I also agree that those playing with different hotter loads probably caused most of those problems.
Beautiful rifle. Sorry I didn't make this clear in my OP. Supposedly, like my friend's, all of the three involved in settlements were stainless. I learned that from the YouTube posted. I'd be thankful yours is blued. Prettier, anyhow.
Thanks! No worries. It's actually stainless. Let's just hope and pray it never blows up. After all that came out about this I try to check what I can for any fractures that could be seen. My buddy has a bore scope that we check it with from time to time that shows up on a computer screen.
Looked back at your photo and yes, now it looks SS. It has been a rather long day.
Sure glad you haven't had any issues with yours. Obviously most of the guns in question have had no issues or Savage would've done a recall on them. Although common sense has told me that smokeless muzzleloading takes more precautions I had no idea about any of all this until my old friend put his blown up gun in my hands. Sort of blew my mind, you know, because he's about the last person I'd expect to make a critical error in loading.
Great post with great info and advice but a few things still remain that make me question.
Savage quit making this gun around the time my buddy's blew up. And the guy who made the YouTube was convinced enough with his research to keep shooting his blued one but not the stainless one. And my memory of my friend's tidy reloading bench and the fact he had two witnesses that said he loaded his gun properly. Of course you could also say if there truly was an issue Savage would've issued a recall to prevent future settlements. That's the most compelling reason for me to believe there wasn't any problem on Savage's part. Of course the rebuttal could be it would be QUITE expensive to get a law firm and experts to prove a blowup wasn't user error. And how many guys might just assume the blowup was on them? Like many mysteries I don't think we'll ever know with 100% certainty.
My background.
Shooting since I was 3, I'm now 64.
reloading for years
Smokeless experience: 19 years.
Expert? NO, there are those of us with a lot of experience but no experts.
This discussion has been going on for years. I have seen Savages blown up, several as a matter of fact, barrels bulged, stocks blown apart and scope bells blown off.
Bottom line is this, make a loading mistake with any firearm and you are holding a potential pipe bomb.
Almost every gun I have seen bulged or blown was because of a double load.
Several years back I blew one up, but it was not a Savage, it was a robustly built .45 with a 1.250 shank for 5", the load was experimental with a new powder on the market, no pressure traces or data to go by, to save the boring details my saving grace was the fact that God had mercy on me, and I was shooting from a large bull bag.
My left hand was out of the equation, fortunately.
When I fired the gun it knocked me off the bench and I landed on my feet holding half the stock which held the action and the rear half of the scope. No barrel, no scope bell and the front half of the stock was missing.
To say I was fortunate is a gross understatement, my only injury was a busted lip from my right hand holding the grip, and my pride of course.
My scarred-up bull bag I still shoot from is a grim reminder every time I shoot.
I had to MAKE myself pull the trigger again a few days later but believe me, I have a new found respect for guns in general now.
I NEVER shoot my guns without sliding the bolt out and making sure I see light thru the plug bushing, NEVER!
At the time this happened I had several years experience under my belt and thousands of rounds down range with a smokeless muzzleloader, I had become careless and overly confident.
witness marks and other safety precautions are a must every single time you push a load down the barrel and pull the trigger.
I don't care who you are or how much experience you have, YOU CAN MAKE A MISTAKE! never think it can't happen to me.
Back to the Savage.
I am willing to say there has never been a Savage blown up where operator error was not the root cause, be it a double load, wrong powder charge used, powder volume, etc.
Yes, the Savage has a somewhat wimpy barrel with sight holes drilled in the top which make a weak spot but if used within design parameters it is relatively safe.
I owned about 20 of them years back and played with them extensively.
I was there at the shoot when Jerry smoked the module and it was an eye opener for all in attendance, Jerry's mistake? someone else loaded his gun.
Smokeless safety checks:
POINT YOU BARREL TO THE SKY AND CHECK FOR LIGHT THRU THE BREECH PLUG BEFORE GETTING STARTED
Never store a gun with a load in the barrel UNLESS you cover the muzzle with tape, balloon, etc
ALWAYS use a witness mark for that specific gun when loading
Never let someone else load your gun unless you are closely watching them
shoot alone if possible, added distractions multiply mistakes
LEAVE YOU PHONE IN THE TRUCK
WHEN WEIGHING POWDER CHARGES ONLY HAVE ONE SPECIFIC POWDER ON THE TABLE
use known charges for specific bullet weights
Smokeless guns have received a bad rap over the years, most think they are voodoo but they can be very safe if used correctly.
Shooting since I was 3, I'm now 64.
reloading for years
Smokeless experience: 19 years.
Expert? NO, there are those of us with a lot of experience but no experts.
This discussion has been going on for years. I have seen Savages blown up, several as a matter of fact, barrels bulged, stocks blown apart and scope bells blown off.
Bottom line is this, make a loading mistake with any firearm and you are holding a potential pipe bomb.
Almost every gun I have seen bulged or blown was because of a double load.
Several years back I blew one up, but it was not a Savage, it was a robustly built .45 with a 1.250 shank for 5", the load was experimental with a new powder on the market, no pressure traces or data to go by, to save the boring details my saving grace was the fact that God had mercy on me, and I was shooting from a large bull bag.
My left hand was out of the equation, fortunately.
When I fired the gun it knocked me off the bench and I landed on my feet holding half the stock which held the action and the rear half of the scope. No barrel, no scope bell and the front half of the stock was missing.
To say I was fortunate is a gross understatement, my only injury was a busted lip from my right hand holding the grip, and my pride of course.
My scarred-up bull bag I still shoot from is a grim reminder every time I shoot.
I had to MAKE myself pull the trigger again a few days later but believe me, I have a new found respect for guns in general now.
I NEVER shoot my guns without sliding the bolt out and making sure I see light thru the plug bushing, NEVER!
At the time this happened I had several years experience under my belt and thousands of rounds down range with a smokeless muzzleloader, I had become careless and overly confident.
witness marks and other safety precautions are a must every single time you push a load down the barrel and pull the trigger.
I don't care who you are or how much experience you have, YOU CAN MAKE A MISTAKE! never think it can't happen to me.
Back to the Savage.
I am willing to say there has never been a Savage blown up where operator error was not the root cause, be it a double load, wrong powder charge used, powder volume, etc.
Yes, the Savage has a somewhat wimpy barrel with sight holes drilled in the top which make a weak spot but if used within design parameters it is relatively safe.
I owned about 20 of them years back and played with them extensively.
I was there at the shoot when Jerry smoked the module and it was an eye opener for all in attendance, Jerry's mistake? someone else loaded his gun.
Smokeless safety checks:
POINT YOU BARREL TO THE SKY AND CHECK FOR LIGHT THRU THE BREECH PLUG BEFORE GETTING STARTED
Never store a gun with a load in the barrel UNLESS you cover the muzzle with tape, balloon, etc
ALWAYS use a witness mark for that specific gun when loading
Never let someone else load your gun unless you are closely watching them
shoot alone if possible, added distractions multiply mistakes
LEAVE YOU PHONE IN THE TRUCK
WHEN WEIGHING POWDER CHARGES ONLY HAVE ONE SPECIFIC POWDER ON THE TABLE
use known charges for specific bullet weights
Smokeless guns have received a bad rap over the years, most think they are voodoo but they can be very safe if used correctly.
Great advice from an obvious wealth of experience but it's interesting that only the STAINLESS Savage smokeless ML has been in question. Or maybe if a guy could hire an expensive law firm surely his Savage ML was stainless.
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If the stainless steel barrel was the issue, then recalls would have happened by now. My $.02
I know where a brand NIB stainless/camo could be had if somebody wanted one
It's not just the stainless barrels guys.
Many Savages kill a lot of deer every year still and will for many years to come.
complete failure with a factory load without a double load or other problems?
I just don't see it, and I've messed with a bunch of these guns.
They are quickly fading with all the conversions and custom guns these days but they still work.
Many Savages kill a lot of deer every year still and will for many years to come.
complete failure with a factory load without a double load or other problems?
I just don't see it, and I've messed with a bunch of these guns.
They are quickly fading with all the conversions and custom guns these days but they still work.
I bought my stainless ML in either 200 or 2001 and have not had any issues, and hopefully I never will. I have killed countless deer with it.
I have been shooting a stainless one for about 20 years... never an issue... FWIW, I was on forums for years about the ML-II and there are a lot of people hot rodding them and ever using duplex loads (more than one powder at a time)... From what I recall all of the people that blew up the guns were either pushing them hard or using duplex loads... I went with a recommended powder by Savage and a medium load of it and so far so good...
There was a former Savage employee who was fired from Savage who had an axe to grind with Savage. Therefore, he blew up a Savage smokeless ML to ruin the brand. Think about it, if Savage had bad stainless, it would also come out in their centerfire rifles. It didn't and hasn't happened.
That narrative makes perfect sense and removes any and all doubts unless maybe you have a very detailed and careful friend you know that had his and his ZEISS scope blow up with friends watching that will testify it wasn't on him. And add to that the YouTube I posted of the guy who will only shoot his blued one and the one commenter he had that confirmed his narrative.
I should've already pointed out that I didn't start this thread to make guys doubt their gun, and like anyone with half a brain I knew the risk of accidents with muzzleloading smokeless powder was higher as did my old friend. After seeing what was left of his Savage, though, I was truly curious and thought this was as good as any forum to get some feedback. Thank you for your's.
holstonangler
Well-Known Member
I've used my stainless ml2 for around 15+ years so far with no problems. It's been a great one.
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That is my favorite ML2. I wish I had one just like it with the thumbhole stock.
I had a Knight disc with a thumbhole. Once you shoot one, a regular stock just does not feel the same.
This gun was actually given to me from a friend years ago that we hunted with. Just as what is in the pic. I got down to camp that afternoon and he surprised me with it. I was totally shocked. It's been an amazing gun all these years.
I agree about the thumbhole! It's just been so much more comfortable to shoot.
