Savage smokeless?

[Hollar Hunter]

Now that its been out for a while I was hoping to get some reviews from some fellow Tn hunters. Pros and cons? How has it performed for you? T/C vs smokeless?

 

[Efhutton]

No cons as far as I'm concerned. Mine shoots sub MOA at 200 yds, Couldn't imagine going back to having to clean up a ml after shooting a round or two.

 

[hayman]

I have had a encore and currently shooting savage the only con I can see is I didn't trade the encore as soon as I learned about the savage

 

[Howa]

Smokeless is an entirely different animal. I am really beginning to appreciate the superiority of smokeless muzzleloading. The comparison is there is no comparison.

 

[brownfishunter]

OK I've got another thing I would like to jump in and ask about them. Did yall have a hard time finding the load bullet combo your gun wanted. Reason I ask I have had some bad experences with black powder muzzleloaders trying to find what they wanted to shoot. Have seen some that would do pretty good if you could find the right combo. Just trying to figure out if I wolud even have time to buy one and get it shooting good before season.

 

[brownfishunter]

Talking to a gun dealer today he said some costomers have bought them and love them others have bought them and cant get them to group. I would rather have a stainless laminate, but the only new ones he could find were black sinthetic stock blue barell or basically same gun only camo and $50 higher. You think the sinthetic stock be ok?

 

[Vermin93]

Talking to a gun dealer today he said some costomers have bought them and love them others have bought them and cant get them to group. I would rather have a stainless laminate, but the only new ones he could find were black sinthetic stock blue barell or basically same gun only camo and $50 higher. You think the sinthetic stock be ok?

I have a stainless / thumbhole laminate and a blued / black synthetic. The blued / black synthetic is butt ugly. I hate cheap synthetic stocks and I will be replacing the black synthetic with a sweet laminate from Stocky's Stocks as soon as possible. That is the best solution for addressing the ugliness of the blued / black synthetic model.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

They have been out for 11 or 12 years. I bought mine in 2000 or 2001 and they are awesome! If someone is having accuracy issues, they are using the wrong sabot or bullet. You can't just throw any ole sabot and bullet down the tube on a Savage.

 

[feldmutze]

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

 

[Howa]

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

Couple of reasons, probably the biggest is they didn't pay Michael Waddell a butload of money to hype one on TV. Second is most folks are happy with a $150 CVA you can drop in 2 pellets and hit a pie plate at 50 yards, then they don't clean it anyway because it's headed to the pawnshop as soon as season is over. Why would they buy a Savage?

 

[barkscraper]

They have not stopped go to gunsamerica just no stainless no other rifle like it never to return

 

[Andy S.]

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

That is a good question. My challenge to anyone that discounts how good they are is to find someone that has one and shoot it and clean it. My money says all doubt will be quickly removed from the naysayer. ;)

 

[vonb]

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

1) Most people are going to spend $500+ on a muzzleloader for a few extra days of hunting.

2) These muzzleloaders are a little on the heavy side compared to less expensive models shooting pyrodex/777/bh209.

3) Savage in my opinion never properly marketed them which I think it due to all the liability sues from Bubbas trying smokeless in their non-Savage rigs.

4) The market went to a break-open style action over bolt due to easier access to breech plugs. Being a bolt design makes them longer.

With that said, once you use one, you'll be sold. No cleaning every night it's shot and it's cheaper to shoot and with better velocity than someone shooting bh209. It's simply a better design.

 

[Locksley]

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

Couple of reasons, probably the biggest is they didn't pay Michael Waddell a butload of money to hype one on TV. Second is most folks are happy with a $150 CVA you can drop in 2 pellets and hit a pie plate at 50 yards, then they don't clean it anyway because it's headed to the pawnshop as soon as season is over. Why would they buy a Savage?

I agree, if anyone had problems getting them to group it's because they don't realize they are dealing with a piece of equipment that has the potential for 30/06 velocities. Especially if you are shooting the hotter powders in 90+ degree temperatures. Obviously you gotta select premium sabots, bullets, powders and see "what if".

This aint your daddies ol pos CVA!
RA

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

1) Most people are going to spend $500+ on a muzzleloader for a few extra days of hunting.

2) These muzzleloaders are a little on the heavy side compared to less expensive models shooting pyrodex/777/bh209.

3) Savage in my opinion never properly marketed them which I think it due to all the liability sues from Bubbas trying smokeless in their non-Savage rigs.

4) The market went to a break-open style action over bolt due to easier access to breech plugs. Being a bolt design makes them longer.

With that said, once you use one, you'll be sold. No cleaning every night it's shot and it's cheaper to shoot and with better velocity than someone shooting bh209. It's simply a better design.

This aint your daddies ol pos CVA! This is a modern bolt action rifle .

 

[W.Seay]

ITS A SAVAGE THING, UNTIL YOU OWN ONE, YOU JUST CANT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE MISSING!

 

[Locksley]

ITS A SAVAGE THING because they are better and easier shooting than the smokepoles and MAINLY because you don't have to get out the soapy water and tear the gun down. ALL inlines, scopes, non-blackpowder, sabots and jacketed bullets are for easy.
Hard is the feel like Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett type of hunt with a "smokepole" stuff , wear leather pants and homemade shirts and hats stuff. The start your fire with a Flint and steel kind of thing is for mountain men types that started hunting with a M/L rifle after seeing Geriemia Johnson on the movies .

 

[Locksley]

BOWIE knives and Tomahawks are hard stuff to .

 

[Old Timer]

I suspect that those who use smokeless powder during ML season also use blow-up dolls for dateing. For many of the same reasons.

 

[Vermin93]

If the Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are so good why has Savage discontinued production?

Savage is first and foremost a centerfile and rimfire rifle company. Building muzzleloaders is not their core business like it is for CVA and T/C. Savage never effectively marketed the 10ML-II, and in the hunting industry the ability to effectively market your product is huge. Also, the 10ML-II is relatively expensive to manufacture because of how well it's made. Also, smokeless muzzleloading is confusing and intimidating to a lot of casual shooters and hunters who would rather just drop 2 or 3 expensive pellets down a barrel. All those factors together made the 10ML-II bad business for Savage.

I will never understand why so many muzzleloading hunters would rather buy expensive pellets and deal with constant barrel swabbing, crud rings and barrel corrosion instead of buying a simple powder scale and weighing smokeless charges. It really makes very little sense, especially since a 10ML-II can shoot nasty expensive pellets, or black powder, or black powder substitute, or Blackhorn 209, or smokeless powder, but a lot of things man does make little sense. The relatively small number of 10ML-II owners know what CVA, T/C, and other muzzleloader owners are missing - more speed, more distance, better accuracy, more flexibility, less mess, less maintenance, and much lower operating cost.

You can still order a blued/synthetic 10ML II from Savage if you want one, so it's not dead yet.

 

[Locksley]

The dyed in the wool traditional muzzleloading hunters would rather deal with constant barrel swabbing, crud rings and barrel corrosion instead of abandoning what is the only true art form invented in America. We invented long-rifles in our pioneer days a thing of beauty to be shot and held.

 

[TX300mag]

I love mine.

I hunt every day of TN's newer (two week) MZ season, rain or shine.

I've killed 12 deer with it and a buddy killed three more over the last two years. I wouldn't hunt that much if all I did was clean it over an over.

Besides, killing deer at over 200 yards with ease is NICE! :cool:

 

[Locksley]

YES the deer are what deer hunters want , flintlocks are better for primitive matches , Flintlocks for hunting are hard.

 

[bigfoot318]

Howa, Never heard it put quite that way but you are dead on. That is exactly what happens with most people and they wonder why they cant hit a deer at 150 yards.

 

[Vermin93]

The dyed in the wool traditional muzzleloading hunters would rather deal with constant barrel swabbing, crud rings and barrel corrosion instead of abandoning what is the only true art form invented in America. We invented long-rifles in our pioneer days a thing of beauty to be shot and held.

Savage was not competing against traditional muzzleloaders with the 10ML-II. They were competing against modern in-line muzzleloaders and they lost because more modern in-line muzzleloader shooters would rather drop nasty, expensive pellets down the barrel and shoot crappy powerbelts than buy bulk bullets and sabots and weigh smokeless charges.

Traditional muzzleloaders are awesome. I have one to complement my Savage 10ML-II's.

 

[redblood]

best muzzleloader out there. are they as fast a 30-06, that is ridiculous. a fast load will chrony about 2350. even if we could push a bullet 3000 out of a muzzleloader and match 3006 speeds, it would lose the velocity very quickly due poor sectional density and ballistic coeffeiciency of a 45 cal bullet. however, they are about as good as muzzleloader can get. but they are heavy and ugly as sin.

 

[Wobblyshot1]

YES the deer are what deer hunters want , flintlocks are better for primitive matches , Flintlocks for hunting are hard.

I never have felt handicaped using my flinter. Hopefully I will be able to get a deer this year with it as I usually do.

I use real black powder and patched round ball. In my nearly forty years of shooting traditional muzzle loaders, I have never had to deal with constant cleaning, crud rings or corrosion. I think those conditions are associated with the modern guns and the various BP substitutes.

As far as the Savage Smokeless is concerned, I find the concept interesting but I, myself, am not interested in that style of muzzle loading. The Savage is perfectly legal to use in Tennessee, as is my flintlock. There's plenty of room in the woods for both of us and to each his own.

The ML season will be here before you know it. Wishing everone out there success with their smokepoles......O yes.....and the smokelesspoles too. ;)

 

[EastTNHunter]

YES the deer are what deer hunters want , flintlocks are better for primitive matches , Flintlocks for hunting are hard.

I never have felt handicaped using my flinter. Hopefully I will be able to get a deer this year with it as I usually do.

I use real black powder and patched round ball. In my nearly forty years of shooting traditional muzzle loaders, I have never had to deal with constant cleaning, crud rings or corrosion. I think those conditions are associated with the modern guns and the various BP substitutes.

As far as the Savage Smokeless is concerned, I find the concept interesting but I, myself, am not interested in that style of muzzle loading. The Savage is perfectly legal to use in Tennessee, as is my flintlock. There's plenty of room in the woods for both of us and to each his own.

The ML season will be here before you know it. Wishing everone out there success with their smokepoles......O yes.....and the smokelesspoles too. ;)

Wobbly, thanks for bringing this post back to some sort of civility. There is no need to insult someone's manhood just because they don't hunt the same way as you do, and just like you have said, good luck to all with hunting the way that you want this ml season.

 

[ewc]

push a bullet 3000 out of a muzzleloader

3k is not hard to achieve. BTDT +100fps.

In a .50, 2,800 is EASY and SAFE.

Howa's .45 will smack 3K+ as did KevinB's.

Food for thought-

B.C. kills us- but that too is coming along:

http://parkerproductionsinc.com/index.html

A close friend is confirming his drops to 500 with the 325 grain.

He's a killer to 300yards with a 195" mule deer. I got him going and Bob H. in Knoxville did some 'smithing- .50 caliber.

Of course, it helps that he's a good shot and uses optics that make the drops easy.

 

[holstonangler]

So are you pioneer guys still using arrow heads in archery season? haha(kidding of coarse)

 

[Locksley]

So are you pioneer guys still using arrow heads in archery season? haha(kidding of coarse)

Some actually still use hand-knapped flint arrowheads with wooden arrows and real turkey feather fletching because it has always been so. Some use Bear razor--heads with wooden arrows and real turkey feather fletching because it has always been so. We mean traditional bow hunters here . traditional bows go back thousands of years before the Egyptians .