Regulation hypo (poll)

[Southern Sportsman]

If demand starts to exceed supply, wildlife officials have to (or at least should) take steps to lower kill numbers. Doing nothing would be an abdication of their duty (right?). Among the tools at their disposal are season length, season limits, and manner/means of take.

For purposes of this hypothetical assume that TN kill numbers are too high to be sustainable, and diminished populations are becoming hard to ignore. Hypothetically. As such, the forward thinking members of the Fish and Wildlife Commission have commissioned you to act as turkey czar. They are not concerned about market interests or the sensitivity of whiners. That's why they outsourced this task. You may assume that reliable biological data suggests each option will have comparable inpact on total kill numbers thus achieving the same goal. You must select one and only one of these options approved by the Commission.

Please feel free to debate, argue, and/or complain of how this new generation is ruining everything. All of these are time honored traditions among turkey hunters and I fully embrace them. Plus, there is still over a month of time to kill before we can hunt in TN.

 

[Setterman]

I voted remove decoys and htl shot.

However, I don't agree with removing htl shot as I think that would result in some wounded birds as people have gotten used to being able to snipe at long distances and adjusting back won't be easy.

Removing decoys would solve the limit issue as so many birds are killed with them that otherwise would survive.

 

[woodsman04]

Out of the three the only two that would I think would be beneficial to remove decoys and htl and start season later. Reducing the limit to two but everything else stay the same will have little impact because most people will have killed their two birds early in the year when it interferes with breeding.

Vote decoy/htl


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[Boll Weevil]

I voted for option 3 although have no issue with HTL shot...just the dekes/fans.

 

[FTG-05]

What is HTL?

 

[TDW05]

Decoys/HTL gets my vote...loose the decoys and you will save thousands!

 

[Southern Sportsman]

What is HTL?

"Hevier than lead" shot. E.g., hevishot, federal hevyweight, TSS, etc.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

I voted for option 3 although have no issue with HTL shot...just the dekes/fans.

Me too. But making an option that only outlawed dekes would make the poll too easy for many. I dont personally like decoys, but I love handloading for turkeys. So it makes me think.

 

[megalomaniac]

If I were the turkey coordinator....

My train of thought would be along these lines....

If I felt the overall population was in serious decline, I'd immediately delay season opening until April 15th, reduce limit to 2 birds, only one of which can be taken before April 21st.

If I felt the population was in moderate decline, I'd leave the limit at 4 and push season opener back to April 15th.

If I felt the population was in minimal decline, I'd do nothing, and just explain away gradual decline in harvest numbers as a temporary trend and nothing to worry about. I'd claim turkey numbers naturally fluctuate, and that we are just in a down cycle, and everything will be fine in a few more years.

Of course the 3rd option is what we've been doing for the past decade despite declining populations. Failure to recognize the decline, or even flat out denying the decline has been the mantra of the turkey coordinators... until last year... that was their 'oh $hit' moment. I bet they are praying like their jobs depend on it we kill more than 30,000 this year. (but of course, their jobs don't depend on it... govt job that pays no matter the outcome or results you produce)

 

[FTG-05]

What is HTL?

"Hevier than lead" shot. E.g., hevishot, federal hevyweight, TSS, etc.

Thanks!

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Decoys


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[PalsPal]

This one is easy.

1 all day long.

More hens get bred early; dominant toms less susceptible to strutter dekes and reaping with a later opening date; and everybody gets to hunt the way they want without hurting someone's feelings!

 

[Southern Sportsman]

If I were the turkey coordinator....

My train of thought would be along these lines....

If I felt the overall population was in serious decline, I'd immediately delay season opening until April 15th, reduce limit to 2 birds, only one of which can be taken before April 21st.

If I felt the population was in moderate decline, I'd leave the limit at 4 and push season opener back to April 15th.

If I felt the population was in minimal decline, I'd do nothing, and just explain away gradual decline in harvest numbers as a temporary trend and nothing to worry about. I'd claim turkey numbers naturally fluctuate, and that we are just in a down cycle, and everything will be fine in a few more years.

Of course the 3rd option is what we've been doing for the past decade despite declining populations. Failure to recognize the decline, or even flat out denying the decline has been the mantra of the turkey coordinators... until last year... that was their 'oh $hit' moment. I bet they are praying like their jobs depend on it we kill more than 30,000 this year. (but of course, their jobs don't depend on it... govt job that pays no matter the outcome or results you produce)

Of the three options above, which would you choose?

 

[Setterman]

This one is easy.

1 all day long.

More hens get bred early; dominant toms less susceptible to strutter dekes and reaping with a later opening date; and everybody gets to hunt the way they want without hurting someone's feelings!

I like to hurt people's feelings, it makes me happy.

So I say outlaw decoys round them up and melt them down in town centers around the state

 

[poorhunter]

I voted one for 2 reasons: 1) I think the flock can sustain hunting over decoys if turkeys are left alone till April 15. 2) because I don't think we need to outlaw HTL. I also think it's far easier to enforce a different start date than to enforce no decoys. With a shorter season length I also think it will be harder for the decoy army to limit out.

 

[ruger7mag]

Easy decision, option #3, and I shoot TSS/HTL.

 

[TheLBLman]

Keep in mind Mother Nature often has more effect on ongoing turkey populations
than any our turkey regs or turkey hunting issues.
But some years,
our hunting regs effect ongoing turkey populations more than Mother Nature, too!

Unlike the weather, we CAN effect regulations & hunting.

From a very practical standpoint,
the very easiest "regulatory" changes that could be made,
which would give heartburn to the fewest hunters,
while doing something significant to help the turkey population . . . . . .

Simply delay the season opening by 1 week;
reduce the annual limit to 2 Toms.

 

[TheLBLman]

Also, consider opposition to any changes as well as
Enforcement & Compliance issues with any reg.

Just note above that reducing the bag limit is the most popular option
in part because the fewest hunters are opposed to the change.

 

[PalsPal]

LOL, you misread it; it's the people whose feelings get hurt as a result of the way others hunt.

 

[muddyboots]

I would just lower limit back to 2. It's not rocket science. Hunting was amazing then buy higher limits sold more license which was the reason of raising limits. Greed.

 

[bobbuck]

I would just lower limit back to 2. It's not rocket science. Hunting was amazing then buy higher limits sold more license which was the reason of raising limits. Greed.

I voted this way also. Pretty simple to me if you cut limit in half not as many birds will be killed. Not rocket surgery!

 

[Boll Weevil]

Hunting was amazing then buy higher limits sold more license which was the reason of raising limits.

Do you think license sales would decline if the limit was reduced to 2?

 

[Setterman]

LOL, you misread it; it's the people whose feelings get hurt as a result of the way others hunt.

Hahahahaha that's well played by you

 

[TheLBLman]

Hunting was amazing then buy higher limits sold more license which was the reason of raising limits.

Do you think license sales would decline if the limit was reduced to 2?

Near zero effect on resident license sales.
It would mainly be the non-resident license sales,
and particularly from those who live in states with a later opening.

I know some KY residents who are very accomplished turkey hunters as are most who come to TN from other states,
they come here, limit out in TN, before KY season opens. Like clockwork. They are turkey-killing machines.

There are quite a few very avid & accomplished turkey hunters in every state.
Many will go to Florida or Alabama for a week, limit out.
Then go to Tennessee for a week, limit out (that's 4 birds currently).
Then commonly hunt their home state (limit out).
Then go to some other state (limit out).
End their vacation time in some northern state with a later season, limiting out there as well.

Of course, they don't always limit out in each state,
but they do nearly always kill a ton of turkeys every spring.
Just how they choose to spend their vacation time.
That's fine, different strokes for different folks.

But go to a 2-bird limit in TN, they come less, and kill less.
Make the season open a week later, they come a lot less, and kill a lot less.

 

[megalomaniac]

If I were the turkey coordinator....

My train of thought would be along these lines....

If I felt the overall population was in serious decline, I'd immediately delay season opening until April 15th, reduce limit to 2 birds, only one of which can be taken before April 21st.

If I felt the population was in moderate decline, I'd leave the limit at 4 and push season opener back to April 15th.

If I felt the population was in minimal decline, I'd do nothing, and just explain away gradual decline in harvest numbers as a temporary trend and nothing to worry about. I'd claim turkey numbers naturally fluctuate, and that we are just in a down cycle, and everything will be fine in a few more years.

Of course the 3rd option is what we've been doing for the past decade despite declining populations. Failure to recognize the decline, or even flat out denying the decline has been the mantra of the turkey coordinators... until last year... that was their 'oh $hit' moment. I bet they are praying like their jobs depend on it we kill more than 30,000 this year. (but of course, their jobs don't depend on it... govt job that pays no matter the outcome or results you produce)

Of the three options above, which would you choose?

At this point in time, turkeys are in freefall in many parts of the state... for that reason, I'd go with the most effective measure to improve poult recruitment.... number 1.

That being said, I think we'd be fine with a 6 week long season, 4 bird limit if we just delayed opening till Apr 15th.

But I had the ultimate authority of season setting, I'd eliminate jake killing by adults, limit all to 2 birds, eliminate all hen killing (bearded or not), AND push season opener back to April 15. Not popular, but at this point, drastic measures must be implemented for 3-4 years until the population rebounds.

Heck while I'm at it, I might also eliminate decoys to make Setterman happy, but we'd also have to eliminate optics on shotguns and go back to beads just to make it more interesting

 

[Newt]

I voted decoys!!! I feel every one voting on this thread are pretty pasonite about turkey hunting and could get around the woods just fine without them. What blows my mind is the R/C struters, mojo struters, struters on a string, fans, umbrella fans, gun attachments for fans crowd, and probably left some more out. Those tactics in my OPINION should be removed ASAP. You take a gobbler with a dozen hens that used to be pretty well untouchable now is the most vulnerable to getting his neck cracked opening day. I just pray it doesn't take someone getting hurt before it changes!

Last year a guy I know keep showing me some awesome videos that he filmed off his cell phone of gobblers on the roost strutting, gobbling the whole nine yards on public land. I said how in the world you keep getting so close without blowing them out his answer was I just hold this full strut decoy in front of my face and walk right to him...... I said on public land...yea he said I ain't ever seen nobody over there.. like I said I don't feel anyone here is this way or would ever do this but they are out there and just gaining ground

 

[Setterman]

I voted decoys!!! I feel every one voting on this thread are pretty pasonite about turkey hunting and could get around the woods just fine without them. What blows my mind is the R/C struters, mojo struters, struters on a string, fans, umbrella fans, gun attachments for fans crowd, and probably left some more out. Those tactics in my OPINION should be removed ASAP. You take a gobbler with a dozen hens that used to be pretty well untouchable now is the most vulnerable to getting his neck cracked opening day. I just pray it doesn't take someone getting hurt before it changes!

Last year a guy I know keep showing me some awesome videos that he filmed off his cell phone of gobblers on the roost strutting, gobbling the whole nine yards on public land. I said how in the world you keep getting so close without blowing them out his answer was I just hold this full strut decoy in front of my face and walk right to him...... I said on public land...yea he said I ain't ever seen nobody over there.. like I said I don't feel anyone here is this way or would ever do this but they are out there and just gaining ground

This times 1000!

Opening weekend and opening week there are thousands upon thousands of birds killed that most certainly would survive if decoys were outlawed. Like many I've hunted these things for a very long time and killed a ton of them over the years. However, these dominant field birds with sometimes 20 hens are as brutally hard to kill early as any animal we hunt. They stay with those hens from fly down to fly up and rarely break strut. The hens usually turn and leave when called to or simply ignore it. These birds are now being killed by hunters who would never stand a chance because of decoys. These birds are visible as they hit fields and strut allowing easy scouting etc, all a hunter has to do is stake a decoy out and shoot, that's it.

Remove decoys and even the most seasoned turkey killers aren't tagging those birds. However, instead those birds and thousands of them are dead right off the bat.

Them surviving even a week or two makes it far more likely they survive the season.

How many birds that are killed today, would survive if decoys were gone? 10,000? 15,000? That's a ton of birds removed which could survive making subsequent years better and better,

Melt the plastic!

 

[Andy S.]

Remove decoys and even the most seasoned turkey killers aren't tagging those birds. However, instead those birds and thousands of them are dead right off the bat.

That's a ton of birds removed which could survive making subsequent years better and better.

This. If you care about the resource for next year and out years, you WANT these dominant male birds around until the majority of your hens are bred, period.

 

[Andy S.]

I voted.

My thoughts:

1. April 15th is good for some (northern half of the state and northeast corner), but not so good for those on the MS line and the SW corner of the state. The dynamics of the turkey population and when exactly they breed across the state are too complex too paint with that broad of a brush.

2. The one I voted for. It will be easy to enforce and it will send the message to the majority of the hunters. It will also reduce out of state license sales, freeing up some leases and public land spots for the resident hunters.

3. The hardest to enforce in my opinion, but I would be just fine with it if it were ever made a law.

 

[Hawk]

I think all three options should be laws.
Given one choice the # 1 option would in my opinion be the best.
I would like to add an option/choice to reduce shooting hours to sunrise to 12:00 PM EST/ 1;00 DST.