Numbers droping ?

[Mad_Max_66]

Tennessee hunters put the wraps on the 2013 spring turkey season today. Some numbers could still trickle in, but preliminary data from the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency shows that 32,693 turkeys were harvested statewide, just about 4% below the 2012 spring harvest of 34,020 despite what was by most accounts a difficult hunting season. In Scott County, 225 turkeys were harvested � well below the record spring turkey harvest but just one bird shy of last spring.

Wondering what's going here in Scott co.?

 

[catman529]

Possibly some check stations not switching over to the new system.

 

[woodsman87]

I think they are dropping, more significantly in isolated spots though.
The new checkins may be appearing to cause flaw in harvest numbers, but I believe the decline is still real, and have been saying it since 2009 or so.

 

[Spurhunter]

Since the record kill numbers of 2010 the statewide kills have been declining every year. It's not the check stations. Statewide we are down 13% since 2010 and it's getting worse. Interestingly enough Maury county is going up every year. Maury is up 35% since 2011. That might prove my point in another thread about turkey hunters from other areas hunting there more and more. Like I said, the surplus can only last so long when the rest of the state is down and those hunters decide to hunt the hot spots. Something to think about.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Fentress Co. is down 30% since a high in 2010. Harvest is pretty well equal to 2009 levels now. Im afraid the hatch wont be much this year so I expect worse.

 

[tickweed]

Ive said it several times, something is going on, all across the state.

 

[tickweed]

Nor can I. I will bet the season limits will change, it will be interesting to see. I wish someone from TWRA would give us some insight.

 

[catman529]

If limits need to change I'd say the fall limits should, but I think the reason they are so high is because not many people fall hunt so you can kill more. I enjoy killing 6 in one county but would rather have it lowered to 4 or 3 than have the spring limit lowered. But in Maury county here the population seems pretty good to me.

 

[Andy S.]

I will bet the season limits will change, it will be interesting to see. I wish someone from TWRA would give us some insight.

Not TWRA, but this redline document leads me to believe the bag limits for next spring will be the same as this season. Refer to Section IV. General Regulations for Spring and Fall Turkey Harvest, C. Spring Turkey Bag and Possession Limits on page 8.

http://tn.gov/twra/procs/biggameredline.pdf

With that said, the redline is not the final word and the TWRA is soliciting comments for the 2013-14 hunting seasons� regulations proposals. This is an opportunity for the public to share their ideas and concerns about hunting regulations with TWRA. The public comment period concerning the 2013-14 proposed hunting seasons regulations will be open until May 27, 2013.

 

[Lawrence]

I say lets stop shooting jakes
other than the young sportmans hunt

 

[TheLBLman]

I'd like to see the Fall Turkey hunts discontinued.

 

[catman529]

I say lets stop shooting jakes
other than the young sportmans hunt

I'd like to see the Fall Turkey hunts discontinued.

screw that!

 

[woodsman87]

Killing Gobblers in the spring doesn't do much to lower the population. Of course it does decrease it some, but most of the hens are already bred by the time turkey season opens. I would still like to see a 2 or 3 limit gobbler, but I think it is still ok to shoot 4. Since most of the hens have already been bred, we are shooting surplus turkeys. Just because you see a gobbler with several hens, and he breeds them, doesn't mean that is their first time. I do not know why, I guess they like to, but they continue to breed even after their eggs have been fertilized. They don't start sitting on their eggs until their clutch is complete. In my area for most hens its the last week of April every year, doesn't matter the weather.

Killing hens in fall should be abolished. It isn't anything like deer management, and we should have as many hens as possible. I am not a scientist, and I don't have the numbers, but they are probably about the same number of hens and gobblers, maybe more gobblers. Remember, hens mortality rate is high, because they sit on thier nest all night and day. Hay cutters get alot of them, and people bushhogging this time of year get them too. Some of that could and should be avoided, especially by the bush hoggers.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

We cant just drag down alot of the state because some areas are still doing great like Maury Co. We have to divide it up into units, thats the best way I can see that would also not upset the hunters in the high population areas. The NWTF has that Conserve word in their motto, they need to get involved in a big way. It takes alot of pressure to get much done. Everyone that wants to conserve the turkey population needs to send in their comments before May 27th and contact your wildlife commissioner.

 

[woodsman87]

Overall, I wouldn't mind the limit going down to 2 or 3, and I also would be for not shooting hens in the fall. I enjoy fall turkey hunting, but do not shoot the hens. I think maybe there should be a bag limit of 4 gobblers, combinnded fall and spring seasons, and statewide.
And I don't think jakes should be off-limits. Although I don't shoot them, I think its ok for people to take a jake. Look at the harvest numbers, jakes account for a very very small percentage of the total harvest. That is the least of our worries right now.

varmints, hogs, feral cats, and feral dogs, should be shot.

 

[woodsman87]

We cant just drag down alot of the state because some areas are still doing great like Maury Co. We have to divide it up into units, thats the best way I can see that would also not upset the hunters in the high population areas. The NWTF has that Conserve word in their motto, they need to get involved in a big way. It takes alot of pressure to get much done. Everyone that wants to conserve the turkey population needs to send in their comments before May 27th and contact your wildlife commissioner.

I agree 100%. I would love units. Maury county should be 4 gobblers, but everywhere else shouldn't. My place in Giles should be 1 or 2. I just think it will be so hard to do units. Not 15 miles away to the north, they are having breakout numbers, and my areas are getting slimmer every year. IT doesn't appear to be different woods or habitat either.

I think it is cyclical, and birds move alot.

 

[catman529]

I don't think hen killing should be abolished, think about it, do we want the population exploding to nuisance levels? I though part of wildlife management was to keep the population in check. We kill females of every single other game species, now why should turkeys be excluded where their population is healthy? Some areas might need a few extra birds thinned out and some might still need to grow... I like the fall hunts going by county. I wouldn't mind the fall bag limits lowered if they had to, but hope to never see the day when fall turkey hunting is eliminated. Just my 2 cents, I'm not a biologist either. Also Maury county is not the only loaded with turkeys. Marshall county would probably beat Maury if it were the same size, but its a much smaller county. It has at least the same density of turkeys if not more, from what I've seen. Probably several other counties that are booming in middle TN.

 

[Lawrence]

I still dont understand and I have said this before
that the limits are set before we see how the hatch has done
You cant continue to kill 6 per county in the fall and 4 in the spring if Tn has a poor hatch.

 

[woodsman87]

I don't think hen killing should be abolished, think about it, do we want the population exploding to nuisance levels? I though part of wildlife management was to keep the population in check. We kill females of every single other game species, now why should turkeys be excluded where their population is healthy? Some areas might need a few extra birds thinned out and some might still need to grow... I like the fall hunts going by county. I wouldn't mind the fall bag limits lowered if they had to, but hope to never see the day when fall turkey hunting is eliminated. Just my 2 cents, I'm not a biologist either. Also Maury county is not the only loaded with turkeys. Marshall county would probably beat Maury if it were the same size, but its a much smaller county. It has at least the same density of turkeys if not more, from what I've seen. Probably several other counties that are booming in middle TN.

But you haven't seen low turkey humbers like some of us others have. Maury and Marshall can probably stand with a little hen killing. Honestly, this is just me, but I love turkey hunting so much I want turkeys to be a "nuisance." It is weird me even saying that about them.
They ain't like deer, thats the reason why we shouldn't shoot the females. Read what I said earlier. Gobblers get shot by us, but hens get killed by everything else on the nest, plus all the other animals and weather that kill eggs. Also, hens get killed by us in October.
You talk about we shoot females in every other game animal. Squirrels and Rabbits you can't tell. Deer management needs it. Don't have a clue about elk, sure its like deer and moose and stuff.
I am not a duck hunter, so correct me if wrong. When duck hunting, cant you only kill one hen out of a bag of 4? something like that?
Pheasant hunters out west, I am pretty sure that they only shoot the roosters.
You cannot tell much by a bob white, unless you are close.

So basically the only game animal we shoot both sexes for around here are deer. I am not familiar with elk or bear.

 

[woodsman87]

Didn't the fall limit state wide used to be only like 1 turkey during bow deer season either sex, and that was pretty much it? All the other fall hunting was quota only? There may have been a shotgun fall season during december, but it wasn't the ridiculous 6 hens per county?
I wonder if the all the sudden spike in hen killing during the fall the last few years has anything to do with it?

 

[Lawrence]

Funny thing about Tn IS the liberal bag limits
I remember when I first moved here from Mo. I was like
YOU CAN KILL 11 BUCKS IN ONE SEASON

Another thing about our turkeys here in Tn
is we sell a ton of Out of State tags
because of our early dates and liberal limit
hunters from MO, KY, OH, IL, flock here to get a start
before their seasons start

 

[Spurhunter]

I will NEVER understand why any turkey hunter would be so helll bent on killing hens. Cat, you bring up the same points every discussion. Do yourself a favor and read some of Dr. Lovett Williams' work. Until you educate yourself you can't understand. You CANNOT compare turkey biology to deer or anything else! There are NO SIMILARITIES in the two!

 

[woodsman87]

Funny thing about Tn IS the liberal bag limits
I remember when I first moved here from Mo. I was like
YOU CAN KILL 11 BUCKS IN ONE SEASON

Another thing about our turkeys here in Tn
is we sell a ton of Out of State tags
because of our early dates and liberal limit
hunters from MO, KY, OH, IL, flock here to get a start
before their seasons start

I dont think it is so much the early season and liberal bag limits. Alabama starts earlier and has more liberal limits.
But I have hunted both states alot. And I would have to say that Alabama people hunt Tennessee because it is simply better hunting, especially better than North AL. Tennessee should be one of the top turkey hunting states in the nation. It is, or was, unbelievable.

 

[woodsman87]

I will NEVER understand why any turkey hunter would be so helll bent on killing hens. Cat, you bring up the same points every discussion. Do yourself a favor and read some of Dr. Lovett Williams' work. Until you educate yourself you can't understand. You CANNOT compare turkey biology to deer or anything else! There are NO SIMILARITIES in the two!

Exactly right. Turkeys and Deer are different animals, therefore we cannot treat them the same. Hopefully not, but One day Maury county will probably be down like its southern neighbors. Too much hen killing, but more importantly, too much positive press on the internet. I have never hunted Maury or Marshall, but after reading how good it is I am thinking about going up there next year, and so does everybody else around here.

 

[Lawrence]

Funny thing about Tn IS the liberal bag limits
I remember when I first moved here from Mo. I was like
YOU CAN KILL 11 BUCKS IN ONE SEASON

Another thing about our turkeys here in Tn
is we sell a ton of Out of State tags
because of our early dates and liberal limit
hunters from MO, KY, OH, IL, flock here to get a start
before their seasons start

I dont think it is so much the early season and liberal bag limits. Alabama starts earlier and has more liberal limits.
But I have hunted both states alot. And I would have to say that Alabama people hunt Tennessee because it is simply better hunting, especially better than North AL. Tennessee should be one of the top turkey hunting states in the nation. It is, or was, unbelievable.

Yea but Im not talking about AL
I am talking about our northern states
Try driving around any WMA during the first week of season and
look at the license plates of the people hunting. Talk to the hunters and they will tell you why they choose to hunt here. Cheap over the counter liceses and LIBERAL limits
No state north of TN have 4 bird limits.
TN needs to get out of this liberal state of mind IMO

 

[woodsman87]

Funny thing about Tn IS the liberal bag limits
I remember when I first moved here from Mo. I was like
YOU CAN KILL 11 BUCKS IN ONE SEASON

Another thing about our turkeys here in Tn
is we sell a ton of Out of State tags
because of our early dates and liberal limit
hunters from MO, KY, OH, IL, flock here to get a start
before their seasons start

I dont think it is so much the early season and liberal bag limits. Alabama starts earlier and has more liberal limits.
But I have hunted both states alot. And I would have to say that Alabama people hunt Tennessee because it is simply better hunting, especially better than North AL. Tennessee should be one of the top turkey hunting states in the nation. It is, or was, unbelievable.

Yea but Im not talking about AL
I am talking about our northern states
Try driving around any WMA during the first week of season and
look at the license plates of the people hunting. Talk to the hunters and they will tell you why they choose to hunt here. Cheap over the counter liceses and LIBERAL limits
No state north of TN have 4 bird limits.
TN needs to get out of this liberal state of mind IMO

Agreed. I have no knowledge of the northern states except Kentucky.

 

[woodsman87]

http://tn.gov/twra/procs/biggameredline.pdf

Pretty good stuff I believe. I still stand by my arguement that lowering spring gobbler bag limit would not help much, but I would still be okay with lowering it some.
I am all for the suggestions of lowering the fall limts. But I still think that if Maury and them keep killing 6 hens that it will go down too. I think hens should be protected year round. Gobblers only during fall.

 

[TheLBLman]

For those of you who regularly hunt both TN & KY, in which state do you experience the better turkey hunting?

 

[catman529]

If you don't want to kill hens then don't kill them. I think only a small handful if people kill hens in the fall and most don't kill the 6 bird limit. Look up the harvest reports for fall season in Maury county. I'd be more worried about too many people coming to hunt because they heard its good than people killing a few hens. I pretty much have the place to myself when I fall hunt public land.

 

[woodsman87]

171 turkeys were reported last fall season in Maury County, more than some counties spring seasons. 103 of those were hens. That doesn't sound like alot, but in the big scheme it is. That doesn't count the ones that will get bushogged or turned into hay either. And the ones shot illegally when misteaken for gobblers. And all the bearded hens that will be killed just because they had a beard. And all the ones that will get run over by a car. Then the few coyotes and bobcats that catch them. Then after all of that, the ones that do survive have to raise a brood. Right now studies show that only two poults per hen survive. That isn't very many young birds.

It is not about not wanting or wanting to shoot hens. It is about getting everybody on the same page. I will not shoot six hens, because I think it is wrong. That doesn't stop anybody else from shooting six hens. Some people do it because it is legal and it is simply something to kill and brag about. Six hens or poults in fall are easy to kill, especially flock shooting into a flock of small 5 month old poults. Turkeys are not like deer, they cannot opt to move at night because of pressure. If anybody wants to kill six turkeys one day, find a hardwood acorn ridge that they use alot, or find a spot they like to roost, and wait until they come by and shoot six of them in one shot.

Let me say this, I do not think shooting hens in the fall is the sole purpose that caused the decline. I am saying it is hurting some, and that is a factor that we as conservationist can control. We cannot control the weather at all. There is only so much we can do to get rid of varmints and predators. We can control by creating better nesting habitat. We can also not bushog until all eggs are hatched. If you cut hay, then that is just part of it, I understand hay must be cut this time of year.

The whole country aint like Maury county, and I believe most places will never be like what we are seeing there now. I have hunted alot of places around here, and there are places in the southeast U.S. that are experiencing declining numbers, as well as places that seem to be going up, Maury county TN is one of those. Some of the places I have been do not have fall hen hunting, that is why I think that isn't the only reason. We need to control what we can, and hen killing is one of those things.

Until you turkey hunters experience not having many birds to hunt, you may not understand this and my passion to keep the wild turkey.