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Woodsman87, you can share my campfire anytime. It is refreshing to hear someone that actually researches facts and truths before spouting off opinions. Everything you have said here is spot on and agrees with the research of the best turkey biologists on the planet. Some people either know more than those biologists, or are so bloodthirsty they choose to ignore facts.

Seriously, poults? Who in their right mind would shoot a poult? Everyday I read something else that amazes me.
 
woodsman87 said:
Hopefully not, but One day Maury county will probably be down like its southern neighbors. Too much hen killing, but more importantly, too much positive press on the internet. I have never hunted Maury or Marshall, but after reading how good it is I am thinking about going up there next year, and so does everybody else around here.
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Here too. My bunch is already planning a trip for early spring season as well as many other guys I know. Kamikaze longbeards seemingly behind every tree will make a man drive 3 hours!
 
Shoot hens in the fall if you want. I just wish TWRA, if possible, could regulate more about what areas can withstand a little hen shooting. If possible to research, every year and every county or unit should be different. Right now I believe my spots should have zero hen killing. Maybe ten years from now it will look like Maury Co. and be able to take some hen hunting. Maury then might be like the southern most counties and have about 1 gobbler and 7 hens per 2,000 acres like it is around here.
 
Spurhunter said:
Woodsman87, you can share my campfire anytime. It is refreshing to hear someone that actually researches facts and truths before spouting off opinions. Everything you have said here is spot on and agrees with the research of the best turkey biologists on the planet. Some people either know more than those biologists, or are so bloodthirsty they choose to ignore facts.

Seriously, poults? Who in their right mind would shoot a poult? Everyday I read something else that amazes me.
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I am just passionate about the wild turkey. I may sound contradicting, but I like to kill gobblers as much as I like to see them live! and that is why I like them to thrive, because I like to hunt them. I think you would agree with me, you had some on the ball post as well.

About poult shooting, I may have exagerated there, not sure when they are quit being called poults, but I know during the fall shotgun season most of the so called "hens" people kill are nothing more than poults. They are inbetween 4-6 months old, and look like a wild turkey, but then again still have some of the poult characteristics. You can hardly tell jakes from hens. And these turkeys weigh like 8-10 lbs. Not hardly worth shooting and eating when you can kill a 20 lb longbeard in the fall too, and it is much much much more challenging.

Fall turkey hunting for hens poults is about as easy as squirrel hunting.
Hunting Longbeards during the fall is a little more tough.
 
Another thing, I aint got one negative thing to say about fall turkey hunting except that you can shoot hens and poults. Maybe if we would quit shooting the hens and poults, some turkey hunters may have more longbeards to hunt during the spring, or if ones desire like myself, to hunt longbeards during the fall.

I am a turkey conservationist and a turkey hunter. I hunt longbearded gobblers during the spring and fall. I do not shoot hens. I deer hunt so that I can watch turkeys.
 
Anyone have contact information for the appropriate person (Wild Turkey Program Coordinator) to connect with in West TN?
 
Catman,
That is all the info anybody needs. The population is declining in most areas, so why would we want to keep shooting hens? Even in the population increase areas? You know that it aint going to increase for eternity?
Let me say this again, hen shooting aint the sole purpose in it. But it is a factor that we can control, why not fix it? Why not make it illegal since hen turkeys and poults already have a hard enough time living anyways?
I suggest hunters slack off on the hen shooting while the getting is still good and before it gets bad. Doesn't everyone enjoy hunting longbeards in the spring?
Since there are only 2 poults per hen, wouldn't we need every hen to live and raise her two poults?
 
Just a few thoughts to ponder.

catman529 said:
If you don't want to kill hens then don't kill them.
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How do you distinguish male from female turkeys during the fall?

If you had the choice, would you rather call up a gobbling, strutting longbeard, or simply shoot one walking by or feeding (one that is not gobbling or strutting)?

woodsman87 said:
171 turkeys were reported last fall season in Maury County, more than some counties spring seasons. 103 of those were hens.
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Killing mostly hens during the fall turkey season is not isolated to just Maury County. STATEWIDE, (TWRA data 09/01/2012 thru 12/31/2012) there were 935 male turkeys "checked in" and 1,676 hens "checked in".

It would appear that "fall turkey" hunters kill MOSTLY HENS.
 
Its hard to tell them 5 month old birds apart. Sometimes the jakes will already be a little bigger, and their breast feathers will be darker, and hed a little more red.
I also like shooting them when they gobble and strut, not walking by eating acorns or clovers. So much easier to ambush them during the fall.
 
Boll Weevil said:
Anyone have contact information for the appropriate person (Wild Turkey Program Coordinator) to connect with in West TN?
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It is my understanding that Chris Hunter is the TWRA Turkey Program Coordinator for the entire state. He might be a good place to start if you have questions or concerns.

I saw where Chris posted this on another hunting forum. "Chad Harden (TWRA turkey biologist in West TN) a call. The office number in Jackson, TN is 731-423-5725"

FWIW, I've spoke with Chad and shared email a few times over the years, top notch guy.
 
The last page of the fall turkey hunting report shows a good sign that things look to be going up. Hopefully, that is the case.

The thing that gets me is this: I live on some my hunting land. I am there everyday. I do not understand how biologist say we have a healthy turkey populations, when they all estimate it with suitable habitat. 90% of the turkeys in my county live 15+ miles north of me. It used to not be that way. from 1997-2006 you saw turkeys daily. They have either just completely moved or died off.
No change in habitat or management techniques amongst me or neighbors except maybe a house here or there.

The only changes I know of are these:
1) more liberal fall and spring bag limts.
2) Armidillos are seen almost everyday
3) wild hogs have been around the general areas since about 2007.
4) Feeding wildlife "deer" corn is very popular because of the game camera industry so people can see how big of a buck they are going to kill this year, only to never see him during the day.
5) the popularity of predator hunting. Yes I said it, shooting coyotes can effect in a negative way. Coyotes kill the animals that eat the eggs. Coyotes do eat nesting hens, but that isn't the main problem of them.
6) and rainfall. What I think is the most important factor of all. If I am wrong on this, please correct me. The past several nesting seasons have been way wetter than normal. Rain fall causes hens to produce more oil on their feathers, making them smill stronger for predators or nest getting varmints. Excessive rain fall the first 2 weeks of a poults life kills many, not becuase of drowning, but because of freezing to death. When the eggs get excessive rainfall after rainfall, not only could the flood and go away, but the pours in the eggshells absorb bacteria. This causes eggs to not hatch, or the poults to be very unhealthy when they do hatch.
 
As far as comparing deer to turkey biology, the reasons we kill deer from a control standpoint is to reduce car collisions, reduce crop damage, and keep them from running out of food. Turkeys don't cause car wrecks, and their diet is so diverse they can survive on almost anything. There is no chance of turkeys becoming a nuisance. Once a whitetail deer in TN gets out of spots, he has no natural predators. Everything in the woods wants to eat a turkey. The predadation and survival rates are not even related. Honestly, comparing deer and turkey biology makes about as much sense as comparing turkey biology and great white shark biology.
 
Spurhunter said:
As far as comparing deer to turkey biology, the reasons we kill deer from a control standpoint is to reduce car collisions, reduce crop damage, and keep them from running out of food. Turkeys don't cause car wrecks, and their diet is so diverse they can survive on almost anything. There is no chance of turkeys becoming a nuisance. Once a whitetail deer in TN gets out of spots, he has no natural predators. Everything in the woods wants to eat a turkey. The predadation and survival rates are not even related. Honestly, comparing deer and turkey biology makes about as much sense as comparing turkey biology and great white shark biology.
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Good post about comparing the two, that they are not even comparable!
I wish we had as many turkeys as deer.
 
I got it! Why dont they raise the price of license (especially for out of staters) and lower the all bag limits and we all will be happy!
 
CAMARO12 said:
TWRA used to conduct annual poult to hen ratios per county and publish the results but when was the last time anyone saw those in print??
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I don't know, but I would like to see the documentation of that for about the past 10 years. And then wonder why if recruitment is worse every year, why let people continue to shoot hens?
 
woodsman87 said:
CAMARO12 said:
TWRA used to conduct annual poult to hen ratios per county and publish the results but when was the last time anyone saw those in print??
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I don't know, but I would like to see the documentation of that for about the past 10 years. And then wonder why if recruitment is worse every year, why let people continue to shoot hens?
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not only hens but why continue to keep a 4 bird limit in the spring. A bird is almost impossible to kill (to call in ) when he is surrounded by 12-15 hens
 
CAMARO12 said:
Do a search for "TWRA Big Game Harvest Report 2011-2012" and go to the turkey section. There's a lot of good information there going back to the mid-80's as for as harvest numbers and brood surveys and the like. Hardeman County killed 952 birds during the 2004 spring season and the annual spring harvest has been down in the 600's from 2006-2011. It dropped to 546 in 2012 and 460 this year. I'd like to hear an explanation as to why this steady decrease has occurred.
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You cant tell me its because of less hunters
Now days everyone turkey hunts
 
I don't think it is because of less hunters. The reason why we started seeing the spike was because turkey hunting became cool. Turkeys have populated well, but also more people hunt therefore numbers are inflated. I miss the old days when there wasn't many other turkey hunters and everybody just deer hunted.

Dont get me wrong on this, if you put your time in and truly enjoy the sport of turkey hunting, by all means go and shoot some turkeys in the head. I do not like the hunters that are casual about turkey hunting, and people that go out and shoot gobblers just to kill and are not proud of it should be ashamed of themselves. Also the hen and poult murderers out there that kill because they can and although easy to kill, they like to brag about their accomplishments and introduce new turkey killers to the sport of hen and poult killing.

I love hunting with people that have a passion for wild turkeys like I do, and frown upon the casual turkey hunters.
 
I would like to see the season 4 weeks and not almost 6
and lower the bag limit to 2
oops I guess thats why I hunt Mo. LOL
I have just about lost interest in hunting TN
I remember back in 99-about 2004 IMO was the best
hunting Tn has has in the past 20 yrs
 
Lowering bag limits yes, shortening season no. Some people can only go on weekends and afternoons
after work
 
Spurhunter said:
There is no chance of turkeys becoming a nuisance.
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Now wait a minute here, just a dad-gummed minute.
Just depends on your personal perspective. I know several deer hunters who consider turkeys quite the nuisance. One, he even refers to them as "big feathered rats".

But, when was the last time you heard of someone totaling their car because they ran over a turkey? And I've never heard a farmer complain about the turkeys eating up all his soybeans. However, turkeys can be a bit of a nuisance, especially when I plant my fall food plots, and they like to scratch up and eat the seed.

Seeing that turkeys are but a fraction the size of deer and have a more diverse diet, it would seem more in the natural scheme of things that turkeys should out-number deer.

Spurhunter said:
Everything in the woods wants to eat [color:#FF0000]kill[/color] a turkey.
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Fixed it for you.
 
woodsman87 said:
The only changes I know of are these:
1) more liberal fall and spring bag limts.
2) Armidillos are seen almost everyday
3) wild hogs have been around the general areas since about 2007.
4) Feeding wildlife "deer" corn is very popular because of the game camera industry so people can see how big of a buck they are going to kill this year, only to never see him during the day.
5) the popularity of predator hunting. Yes I said it, shooting coyotes can effect in a negative way. Coyotes kill the animals that eat the eggs. Coyotes do eat nesting hens, but that isn't the main problem of them.
6) and rainfall.
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Your list is good, and would apply to much of TN.
I particularly believe the feeding of "deer" corn has had significant impact on reducing turkey populations in some areas. But contrary to your #5 on predator hunting, I believe fewer coyotes is better than more coyotes, from all perspectives. I'm seeing lots of coyotes specifically hunting for turkey during the day, although I do agree that part of what coyotes eat also eat turkey eggs.

Rather than the increased popularity of predator hunting being a negative, I think the real negative to turkeys is an increase in predators (part of why predator hunting has gain popularity).

In addition to too many coyotes, we also have a lot more bobcats, and a lot more hawks. A heck of a lot more hawks, which can be particularly deadly on young poults.

There is also one other giant predator entering the scene in some areas: Eagles. I've personally seen them attack turkeys, attack turkey decoys, and standing over a fresh turkey carcass (although in that one case, did not see the eagle kill the turkey). More and more, I'm seeing eagles hunting farther from water (where I usually see them). They're not hunting just turkeys, but they seem to be evolving into more focus on turkeys.
 
Well, I realize Catman is a young guy, compared to many of us older guys. I remember, as several on here when if you saw a turkey track you scuffed it out with your boot, and if you heard a bird gobble during a season you had really done something. Im friends and hunt with a fellow that started the oldest chapter of the NWTF in the state of Tn.,so I can go back aways. What has puzzled me is sightings over much of areas I hunt, as well as gobblers being seen or heard. I know at one time in many middle Tn. counties the flocks numbered in the hundreds on many sites in the fall. Within the last couple years, they have vanished in parts of Dickson county. It was nothing to ride to the store, and see strutters in many fields, and lots of hens in the spring. Now, you do good to see a hen. I know the fall hunts have knocked a dent in them. I know several guys who kill as many as they can in the fall, jakes included. As others have stated, why would a person want to kill this many? With a bow during bow season, that's ok, but a gun? To me its about calling him up, him doing his thing. I just wonder if theres more involved in the decrease in numbers other than the fall hunts, especially here in west Tn. I think TWRA has done a great job with the population, Chad H. is a very knowledgeable guy. Still, I have always felt our seasons have been way to liberal compared to other states who have more birds, shorter seasons, less limits than we do.
 
ImThere said:
I got it! Why dont they raise the price of license (especially for out of staters) and lower the all bag limits and we all will be happy!
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Cost of non-resident license is plenty high enough now.
I don't understand why nobody has mentioned the problem of birds not being checked in... I think that this is a major problem!! Along with poor hatches!! It's no telling how many gobblers are really killed during a 6 week season not to mention all the ones shot and lost.. The real answer would be to reduce the length of season and possibly bag limit. I am sure every county in TN can't handle a 4 bird limit in the spring.
 
I still do not agree that lowering bag limits or shortening the season is the answer. There will be lots of hunters that kill over the limit anyways. I bet wounded birds isn't much of a factor. Im not whining, I have to work, but everybody doesn't get to hunt everyday of their life, so I don't think shortening the season should be the answer just be wise me and alot of other guys would be cut down to only four Saturdays.
 
Roost 1 said:
I don't understand why nobody has mentioned the problem of birds not being checked in.
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The way I look at this aspect is the same folks (or proprtion of people) that didn't check them during the bumper-crop years aren't checking them now. In some ways, this factor could actually be one of the more predictable attributes of annual harvest. There's always been, and always will be, those who don't check. We use the data we have to help guide management decsions vs. worry about the data we don't have.

Enforcement...now that's an entirely different discussion altogether. :mad:
 
My final thoughts on this thread for the day is..

Harvest limits, fall and spring, season lengths, etc. don't mean squat if the hens are not there to nest, or if all the poults are killed in someway.

Final answer- its all about nesting, brood rearing, and habitat.
 
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