Grouse hunting

Rancocas

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Nov 29, 2005
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551
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Ocoee Country/Cleveland
The ruffed grouse is primarily a northern bird. They range down here in the mid-south mostly by staying at higher altitudes in the mountains or on the Cumberland Plateau. However, "global warming" may be having an effect by making it simply too dang hot for the birds down here.
Hogs and coyotes could also be raiding their nests for eggs, as well as picking off the young birds.
Also, as has been said, the lack of thick regrowth after logging operations has put their preferred habitat in severe decline.
Of course it is generally known that ruffed grouse go through population cycles. Why this happens is still anybody's guess. There are highs and lows. The population seems to be at a low right now.

As for quail; they have been in decline ever since farming practices changed from the weedy, small family farms to the big, clean fields of corporations. Lots more spraying of toxic insecticides, too. And, again, the proliferation of coyotes raiding nests and pouncing on young birds.
Lets not forget the domestic cat, said to be the number one predator of small birds. I often get pictures of cats on my trail cam. They prowl night and day.

But, it is not only quail and grouse. Take notice of your local small song birds. There has been a severe decline in song birds right here in my own back yard. We feed them and in the past the little chickadees, titmice, cardinals, nuthatches, and others would flock around our bird feeder. Our feeder holds about a gallon of bird seed and I would have to refill it every 4 or 5 days throughout the winter.
Not this year! Few birds are coming in to feed. I haven't had to refill the feeder in two weeks.
Sitting out in the woods in my deer blind, I watch the birds. I see very few now whereas in years past the chickadees and titmice would be everywhere. Forest birds such as the towhees and thrushes have almost completely disappeared, at least around here.

Many years ago a woman named Rachel Carson wrote a book called "Silent Spring". It was all about the decline of birds, in her time mostly from pesticides. Her predictions have become real.

Our environment is in serious trouble!
Just as canary's were once used to warn miners deep underground of toxic gasses, I think our declining bird numbers are a warning to us that our world is sick.
 

Willysman

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Jun 27, 2021
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433
Location
McMinn County
There was zero hog sign up there when the grouse were plentiful. I'm talking 20+ years ago.
You must not have been in the South Cherokee. Been hunting Tellico for 60 years. Always been hogs up there and grouse too. That's where the hogs originated from Hoopers Bald in North Carolina in the 20's. Imported from Russia, broke down the fences and infiltrated all the mountains.
 

SES

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Oct 13, 2011
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2,805
Location
Corryton, Tn
New River unit of South Cumberland WMA is no where near South Cherokee. I'm talking about the area above Brushy Mountain prison, between Petros and Norma.
 

Chickencoop96

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Jul 27, 2021
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550
Location
Englewood, TN
You must not have been in the South Cherokee. Been hunting Tellico for 60 years. Always been hogs up there and grouse too. That's where the hogs originated from Hoopers Bald in North Carolina in the 20's. Imported from Russia, broke down the fences and infiltrated all the mountains.
First time i've ever heard this. interesting
 

7mm08

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Sep 12, 2007
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16,454
Location
In a river hopefully!
As went the quail, so goes the grouse.

And this ain't Kansas.

Does ANYONE really know why quail & grouse seem to be bordering on extinction in TN?

Based on what I've seen, you can create great habitat and little will change.
These birds are basically gone from the landscape where they were once plentiful.
Possums, skunks, coons, raptors and coyotes….. nobody traps anymore. Old time grouse hunters swear the increasing Turkey population is heck on grouse eggs, and chicks.

Grouse are cyclical in population even in MN, WI, and CANADA. Research theories show the birch trees buds have a defensive mechanism to produce more or less depending on bird populations. But to me it's all multifactorial.

And then here there is little clear cutting anymore.

Lastly ATV's. If a guy can ride a trail 20 miles looking for birds in a road and then ground sweep ( shoot) them it's going to effect a population if a guy walks 2-3 miles with dogs and calls it a day and be happy to flush a few and feel lucky if he kills a limit. So ATV's are partly to blame in my humble opinion
 

TheLBLman

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Jun 12, 2002
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38,052
Location
Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Possums, skunks, coons, raptors and coyotes….. nobody traps anymore. Old time grouse hunters swear the increasing Turkey population is heck on grouse eggs, and chicks.

Many areas historically simultaneously had both good turkey, grouse, and quail populations.

IMO, whatever unknown factor is adversely effecting the grouse & quail populations
is also adversely effecting the turkey populations.

We know some of the factors, and I don't think some of those known ones are getting the credit due for just how adverse they are, such as the raptors so often decimating flocks of young birds.

Statewide, raptor populations appear at least 10x more than they were 50 years ago?

We have always had nest-raiding predators, and I'm not sure there's really that many more than in times past (statewide). In times past, the statewide habitat was much better for raccoons than today? Yes, they were more hunted & trapped, but maybe there were more then than now?

I believe one of the lessor realized factors may have to do with there being less insects, even in non-agricultural areas. Without abundant insects, young birds can starve, even in otherwise great habitat.
 

Chickencoop96

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Jul 27, 2021
Messages
550
Location
Englewood, TN
Many areas historically simultaneously had both good turkey, grouse, and quail populations.

IMO, whatever unknown factor is adversely effecting the grouse & quail populations
is also adversely effecting the turkey populations.

We know some of the factors, and I don't think some of those known ones are getting the credit due for just how adverse they are, such as the raptors so often decimating flocks of young birds.

Statewide, raptor populations appear at least 10x more than they were 50 years ago?

We have always had nest-raiding predators, and I'm not sure there's really that many more than in times past (statewide). In times past, the statewide habitat was much better for raccoons than today? Yes, they were more hunted & trapped, but maybe there were more then than now?

I believe one of the lessor realized factors may have to do with there being less insects, even in non-agricultural areas. Without abundant insects, young birds can starve, even in otherwise great habitat.
I can say that when i was in grade school, not too many years ago, there was a huge push to bring back raptors and etc., also there are probably way less coon hunters than there used to be. most folks have no idea that coons can wreak havoc on nesting
 

Willysman

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Jun 27, 2021
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433
Location
McMinn County
Not so sure about that….. money poured into turkeys, elk and even deer and look what we have now. Maybe money needs to be directed into these programs.
Yes but they brought them back by moving from other places. You would have to bring grouse in from other northern states that have completely different habitat than we have here. I don't think the TWRA would spend the money for that because it wouldn't put money back in their coffer. Someone made a comment earlier that old timers said turkeys affected grouse. I am an old time grouse hunter and there was plenty of grouse when there was plenty of turkeys. I'm speaking mainly of the south cherokee where I have always hunted. Old growth forest and no timber cutting, I think, is the biggest factor.
 

TheLBLman

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Jun 12, 2002
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38,052
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Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Old growth forest and no timber cutting, I think, is the biggest factor.
You may be correct regarding the biggest factor for grouse,
but suspect the (many unknown) other factors collectively could be even more significant.

There's something adversely effecting many bird species populations, statewide & nationwide,
and it's not limited to just grouse & quail.
 

Mattt

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Oct 29, 2015
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2,192
Location
Cleveland/Dayton tn
Agreed something affecting birds but quail and grouse are fairly easy. Nature handles her part. Lots of predators means lots of food. She'll balance that without our messing with it.Without habitat you will not have game. As a general rule our national forest doesn't have the habitat anymore. I still get into a few grouse in certain pockets say from tellico down into south end of Cherokee but it's a ton of work. Getting over towards Scott,Morgan counties more successional habitat= more flushes. Was getting some good results up in royal blue but didn't get to keep after them there. May get back to that before too long. Few years back I was looking at a piece of ground in Bradley county to purchase. Flushed a grouse out of the creek bottom as I started up. Less than 15 minutes from downtown. Gives me hope.
 

cowhunter71

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Sep 18, 2016
Messages
665
Location
McMinn County
You must not have been in the South Cherokee. Been hunting Tellico for 60 years. Always been hogs up there and grouse too. That's where the hogs originated from Hoopers Bald in North Carolina in the 20's. Imported from Russia, broke down the fences and infiltrated all the mountains.
;)Hogs have been up there since the 20's and are not the problem. Still flush a couple in pockets here in South Cherokee from time to time
 

DRSJ35

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Dec 5, 2012
Messages
1,732
Big hardwood forests are beautiful to look at. But all of these answers are probably correct in combination it is impossible for these birds to survive. They need areas to hide from these predators winged type or 4 legged. If there's no way for them to get away or hide. Then they are east picking. These forests need logging and burning in a rotational pattern. To at least give them a chance.
 

Willysman

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Jun 27, 2021
Messages
433
Location
McMinn County
Big hardwood forests are beautiful to look at. But all of these answers are probably correct in combination it is impossible for these birds to survive. They need areas to hide from these predators winged type or 4 legged. If there's no way for them to get away or hide. Then they are east picking. These forests need logging and burning in a rotational pattern. To at least give them a chance.
Exactly. And I don't think that's ever going to happen.
 

Setterman

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Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
5,024
Location
Knoxville, TN
Big hardwood forests are beautiful to look at. But all of these answers are probably correct in combination it is impossible for these birds to survive. They need areas to hide from these predators winged type or 4 legged. If there's no way for them to get away or hide. Then they are east picking. These forests need logging and burning in a rotational pattern. To at least give them a chance.
How many contiguous thousand acres of prime 5-15 year old timber harvests would you like to see? The areas where we hunt have more primo habitat than at anytime I can recall. It's literally endless around here. We have a few pigs but that's not the issue. They've always been around.

this is a deeper issue than habitat, pigs etc. It's something not identifiable at this moment
 

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