Caney Fork: BIG Silt Plume from Dam Repairs

[B.D.]

Yesterday morning there was a HUGE silt plume in the upper river, coming in by the ramp near the dam on river left. It extended downriver for over a mile, nearly all the way to "big rock." It appeared to be runoff from the grouting work being done up above. We got a little rain overnight, but not that much. I am worried what the Caney would look like after a real downpour. Can't be good for the trout.

The 11:00 a.m. generation pulse cleared it out, since we didn't get any more rain after 7:00 a.m. or so.

The huge volume of silt makes me suspect that there is a breach in a silt fence somewhere, or maybe an inadequately-fenced spot. This is a view of the river at the head of the silt plume - the silt is entering the water from a cement drainage culvert on the downstream side of the ramp.

If there's a breached silt fence, I'd like to send an e-mail to somebody to see if it can be fixed before we get a day of heavy rain and blow out the whole river. Anybody know who should get the heads-up? TDEC? Bob Snead and/or the Corps? Someone else? If anyone has any contacts on this, PM me and I'll follow up.

bd

 

[rsimms]

I don't know which office handles that area, but it would be a TDEC issue... Division of Water Pollution Control I believe. I suspect the state might be limited in it's influence of a federal project, but I'm sure any kind of "buzz" in the hornet's nest might help. Especially since you have photographic evidence. That breaks my heart to see the Caney run brown.

 

[mike243]

the clinch runs brown whenever theres heavy rain from some of the creeks that feed it,i would think its a natural event to a certain degree,i reckon somebody somewhere takes samples,found a log puller leaking hydro fluid into a creek on bowwater property,called it in & a week later it was still leaking into the creek,reckon they were out taking samples of how much dirt was washing toward the gulf mike243

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Not good at all for the trout.

 

[mike243]

Not good at all for the trout.

thats true for all the fish the saving part for the rivers below the dams are the generators,when they kick on it helps clear it up faster than a river with no other water increase,i dont know how many ppm. it takes to affect the fish for what length of time but it does make ya wonder when you see it all brown.i havent seen of any mass dieoffs due to muddy waters but i do know it happens,mike243

 

[gil1]

I will send this link to Bob Sneed.

 

[gil1]

I will send this link to Bob Sneed.

Got this reply from Bob...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sneed, Robert B LRN" <[email protected]>
To: "Gil Lackey" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Silt Problem on Caney


Gil:

Thanks for sending the link. Frank Fiss had sent me a message on this
yesterday and I have asked our Construction folks to check it out. I'll pass
along info when I know more.

Bob

 

[bowriter]

My memory, faulty as it is, tells me this is not the first time this has happened. I seem to recall a couple other incidents of this. As Hook said, this is not all bad if it is not a regular occurence or a fault somewhere along the line.

The single best day I ever had fishing the Caney-both for size and number-was a day the water was almost muddy from siltation runoff. I believe we had 11 trout over 5 pounds. But that is neither here, nor there if this is siltration fence problem.

 

[B.D.]

A little silt might not do that much harm, though I'd disagree that the tailwaters "could use a little." As a general rule, the less silt, the better. The silt plume Sunday morning was so dense, and for such a long distance, that it was definitely a bad thing.

The brook trout in particular have a very low tolerance for heavy silt. It doesn't make any sense to dump 20,000 of them in and then kill them with mud.

bd

 

[B.D.]

Got this reply from Bob...

Thanks a ton for forwarding the link, Gil. Let me know if you hear anything.

bd

 

[gil1]

It doesn't make sense to dump brook trout in period, nevermind silt or no silt.

If they weren't free to the state I would be raising mortal heck about them being introduced.

Just a quick hijack and then back to the subject, but I wasn't around when this was discussed before. I can't think of a single downside to stocking brookies. If they do well (and they have so far), what is the problem? Am I missing something? What makes them less than a brown or rainbow in your mind? Not getting in your face, but I love 'em.

 

[shorefisherman]

I think the brooks are great, catch(release) them almost every time i go, super aggressive fish attacking the plugs i use (and gill u know the size). But silt or not these brooks were corn fed, way more hardier than the natives up in the smokies...I wouldnt be suprised if someone catches a 2-3 pounder in couple years! I think they have a way better chance in the caney than any other tailwaters in tn.

 

[bowriter]

I hope the brookies survive. They are superb eating.

 

[7mm08]

Hopefully they didn't clean the generators with chlorine like they did once on the Clinch!!! Good ole TVA!!

 

[Hawk]

Just read about a new areation gate being installed at the Center Hill dam and wonder if that could have caused the siltation when they opened the gate?

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll ... etter-news

 

[gil1]

I am just not a huge worshipper of the Brook Trout. They won't last around here as they are incredibly stupid and most I see these days are keeping their 7 fish limit of 8" brook trout.

Sure they can get big, but my question is what's the point with stocking them? More competition for food is the big thing. And ofr you Caney disciples, what makes you think the Caney is far superior to the Clinch, in terms of fish growing ability? You all must not have fished the CLinch back during the quality zone years.

What's the point of stocking rainbows? They don't grow as big as browns and they compete with browns for food, and I don't like it. Just trying to make a ridiculous point about trout equality. They are all just stockers tossed in a ditch for people to "unstock" them.

I can't think of a good reason why you would like brookies less than rainbows or browns. The brookies are just generally feistier, easier to catch, and prettier, all reasons why I like them. They are all about the same to me, but since I'm not used to catching them, it's a little like adding salt to an already good meal.

I am not a Caney disciple - I just live closer to the Caney than the Clinch. According to even the E TN folks who are bypassing the Clinch to travel down to fish the Caney, the Caney has been fishing much better than the Clinch (bigger and more fish). I would imagine that right now, the Caney does grow fish better than the Clinch. The formula is always water quality and harvest.

2 years ago, that was not the case. And I'm guessing that 2 years from now, the holdover Caney fish will mostly have been killed by overharvesting, the Clinch will have overcome it's issues, and the tides will have reversed again.

From reports on both rivers, it's my opinion that that reversal is happening as we speak. The Caney is getting depleted and the Clinch is bouncing back. It seems to be cyclical like that.

 

[bowriter]

The Caney, as it always has been, is cyclical. Right now it is on an upswing. There is one school of thought that believes the next state record brown will comeout of the Caney this year or early next year. Probably it will be caught on live bait. It will still be a state record. I predcit next Dec-Feb is going to blow your mind in terms of big trout caught.

Now. How much has fishing pressure depleted the fish population? In my opinion, not much. I could go into a very long, multi-sylabic explanation but I won't. Suffice it to say, once a trout gets past The Smith, he is virtually home free in terms of fishing pressure. And thousands of them do get that far. The catch and eat guys and the natural predation (rockfish and big trout) take their toll. But it is a sustainable toll.

The major threat to longevity on the Caney, as it has always been, is the water and the food source. If that needs explaning, I'll let Gil do it. I do think the construction (blasting) at the dam will have an affect. I don't yet know if it will be positive or negative. Only time will tell.

In the meantime, and in terms of cutting to the chase, as Gil once so logically put it, "...the Caney is just a big ditch we stock with fish to catch." Or something along those lines. And to some extent, that is true. But it is more than that. Too many people fail to consider that fish are being caught that could not possibly have started as hatchery fish.......and what the Caney empties into....and is emptied into.

There is far more to this 26 miles stretch of river than you might suspect. For example, there is a cache of 26 cases of moonshine quart jars that has been there since prohibition. Pretty good shine, too.

 

[B.D.]

Just read about a new areation gate being installed at the Center Hill dam and wonder if that could have caused the siltation when they opened the gate?

It's my understanding that the sluice gate won't be installed until July 8, so it would not have anything to do with the silt last Sunday. Besides, the silt was entering the river from a drainage gutter immediately adjacent to the boat ramp. It was nowhere near the sluice gates.

And to address the points about the brookies that have been raised:

I agree with Gil 100 percent about the brookies. To be completely honest, before they went in, I thought they wouldn't do well. I figured most would be gone in a few months, and the ones that remained would be restricted to the first mile or two below the ramp.

I was wrong.

The brookies are very healthy, they are doing well, and I have caught them as far down as the Kirby Road access. Maybe they aren't as big as the browns and rainbows, but they bring something unique to the river, and I'm glad they are there.

As far as competition for food, that doesn't concern me right now. Caney trout have a growth rate that is just phenomenal - if forage base was an issue, they wouldn't grow so fast. Besides, the forage base should get even better once the sluice establishes a minimum flow (which in turn will increase the bug life in the river). When growth rate slows down or we start catching skinny trout, it will be time to worry about competition - also time to back off on the number of stockers.

bd

 

[stik]

the brookies are also doing very well in the clinch. the new state record brookie will come from the clinch or caney within the next 5 years. and i LOVE em!

 

[gil1]

I don't know how much we can hope for, but there's always a chance that with a little help, there could be sustainable reproduction on the Caney. That would be awesome and a whole new ballgame for regulations.

If you could only find the moonshine...