Bonded vs cup and core

[Tenntrapper]

Ok, going to take the liberty of assuming a few things...just to make it equal. Nothing is known yet.

This question is for only as it applies to whitetail deer at less than 250 yards.

Assumptions...
1) cost per bullet is same.
2) accuracy is same.
3) speed is within 100fps, with the edge going to the cup and core. (This is based off of book data...not chronograph).
These will be at 7-08 speed...27-2800+ fps.

Is there any advantage to choosing one over the other?
My concern is, at those speeds, the cup and core will "act" like a bonded bullet, and the bonded bullet won't expand sufficiently. Of course, I could be wrong on both counts.

Bullets are the CT 150g BT and the 156g Oryx.
Anyone with real world experience with these in 7/08?
Thanks

 

[megalomaniac]

As a general rule, I prefer cup and core bullets for impact velocities under 2800 fps (because you don't need a bonded bullet for lower impact velocities, and GENERALLY they are cheaper than bonded bullets). Over 2800 fps impact and I prefer bonded bullets. Definitely want bonded bullets above 3000 fps impact velocities.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I agree with Mega. I don't worry much with bonded bullets for deer with the calibers I shoot, not very fast calibers. For hogs, yes I like bonded bullets but hate paying for them to be shot at high volume

 

[Remi]

At those speeds give me the cup and core. The 150 NBT is quite the bullet. If I'm not mistaken a guy on the campfire recovered one from an elk with 32" of penetration from his 708.


I treat bonded like mono's, if I'm shooting one it's light and fast.

 

[mike243]

On deer I prefer cup and core, no matter which rifle I am carrying, I have had more runners with premium bonded bullets. I like see the lungs jellied when I open them up, shooting muzzleloaders I have learned a lot about different bullets, also learned that speed kills lol,

 

[Remi]

What barrel length? Both 22" 708's will reach 2700fps with a 150 but the best accuracy is slightly under. I shoot the 150 scenar at 2688fps I believe. The 708 is one of the most hot rodded cartridges there is I think. Everyone gets a 708 and tries to make it a 280 Rem.

Mine are the happiest here with 22" barrels

140's around 2800
150's around 2700
160-162 around 2600


For deer I've dropped back to the 120-140 class bullets. I used the 140 Accubond on one last year and it did fine but it's not as emphatic as I would have liked so it will be a ballistic tip, Hornady PSP or Speer this year. Granted I didn't catch any shoulder bone with the Accubond which would have helped but I think they're a bit hard for deer at those speeds.

 

[Lost Lake]

No experience with what you specifically mentioned cartridge/bullet wise, but cup and core bullets would be my choice. I'm not pushing anything fast enough to need bonded bullets.

Kept at standard speeds, C&C bullets just behave nicely.

 

[Tenntrapper]

What barrel length? Both 22" 708's will reach 2700fps with a 150 but the best accuracy is slightly under. I shoot the 150 scenar at 2688fps I believe. The 708 is one of the most hot rodded cartridges there is I think. Everyone gets a 708 and tries to make it a 280 Rem.

Mine are the happiest here with 22" barrels

140's around 2800
150's around 2700
160-162 around 2600


For deer I've dropped back to the 120-140 class bullets. I used the 140 Accubond on one last year and it did fine but it's not as emphatic as I would have liked so it will be a ballistic tip, Hornady PSP or Speer this year. Granted I didn't catch any shoulder bone with the Accubond which would have helped but I think they're a bit hard for deer at those speeds.

That's the problem. 2 have a 22" barrel, and one is 16.5". It would be nice to get one bullet to work across the board. I'm thinking that the 16.5 will lose so much speed that I may have to look for an even softer bullet..just to get it to perform. I've read that the Speer 145g btsp is pretty soft, may have to try it.

 

[megalomaniac]

At those speeds give me the cup and core. The 150 NBT is quite the bullet. If I'm not mistaken a guy on the campfire recovered one from an elk with 32" of penetration from his 708.


I treat bonded like mono's, if I'm shooting one it's light and fast.

I killed a small coyote 3d ago with the 150 NBT factory 2nds. Hard quartering to, exit removed most of his guts out the 6in hole on the offside. OFC that was out of my new 7PRC and probably had a 3100fps impact velocity at 75 yards.

Most bullet manufacturers design bullets to perform at usual velocities out of usual firearms. Heck, I never would have thought a Nosler Accubond could explode on a moose and not reach vitals (7mm 140g at 3350 fps MV) until I saw it for myself. Even bonded bullets are not indestructible!

 

[Remi]

For deer from a 708 I doubt you could beat the 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip for performance regardless of barrel length

 

[megalomaniac]

That's the problem. 2 have a 22" barrel, and one is 16.5". It would be nice to get one bullet to work across the board. I'm thinking that the 16.5 will lose so much speed that I may have to look for an even softer bullet..just to get it to perform. I've read that the Speer 145g btsp is pretty soft, may have to try it.

NBT's will open up very nicely down to 1800fps impact velocities. You should be fine with a 16.5in bbl. If you are going to be shooting 400y +, consider trying the Hornady eld-x bullets... they are supposed to mushroom down to 1500 fps impact velocities.

 

[Tenntrapper]

NBT's will open up very nicely down to 1800fps impact velocities. You should be fine with a 16.5in bbl. If you are going to be shooting 400y +, consider trying the Hornady eld-x bullets... they are supposed to mushroom down to 1500 fps impact velocities.

The 16.5" is my new woods/still hunting rifle. I won't be shooting anywhere near 400y. I would guess that 90 percent would be less than 100y. You can occasionally get a little farther shot during late season...but it's rare.

 

[megalomaniac]

The 16.5" is my new woods/still hunting rifle. I won't be shooting anywhere near 400y. I would guess that 90 percent would be less than 100y. You can occasionally get a little farther shot during late season...but it's rare.

You will def be good then with a 2400fps+ MV out of the 16in bbl!

 

[jlanecr500]

Bonded projectiles are in fact cup and core. The cup or jacket is formed and a lead core is inserted or poured in. The difference is the bonding process. Bonding can be achieved by soldering the cup to the core or chemically.

Personally, I prefer bonded bullets. I would rather there be pieces of jacket attached to the chunks of lead that separate. The pieces of jacket act as knife edges when driven by attached lead. Jacket thickness and lead hardness are much more important factors in ballistic performance. Bond them and adjust jacket thickness/lead hardness to obtain the performance desired.