Anyone from Cathole Lease still on the forum?

Snake

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
48,433
Location
McMinn Co.Tennessee U.S.
It certainly hasn't dropped 90% around the areas I hunt, but has been most definitely TRENDING as fewer hunters, and the remaining hunters spending fewer days afield annually hunting deer.

Another "trend" is that most of our hunters (and this is nationally, not just in TN) are an aging group, dying out faster than they're being replaced by younger hunters. This will have an effect, not only on land ownership patterns, but also on lease prices, and the future of hunting itself.

As you have already seen, many of the older hunters have purchased much of the land masses which was once "public" hunting areas. So the hunting land is still there, just not available to the general public. Yet, it's these same older (dying out) hunters who are each year themselves hunting less. Worse, most of their children & grandchildren have little interest in hunting, despite grandparents with large "recreational" properties.

Most of the expensive lease prices (in TN, most are way over-priced for what they are), have also been carried by these older hunters, as they tend to have much more discretionary money than the younger ones. As they have been dying out, the younger ones simply cannot afford the high lease prices, and many have simply just quit deer hunting. Some have switched to waterfowl, but more are just essentially quitting hunting, period.

As a good example, take a look at our friend "Ruger" on this site as a prime example.
He was one of the original founders of this deer-hunting website, and for years totally owned it.
Now he doesn't even deer hunt!

But not too many years ago, Ruger was a very avid deer hunter. He has since become an avid duck hunter, probably hasn't deer hunted at all the past couple years. Give him a couple more years, I bet he doesn't hunt ANYTHING half as much as he's done his duck hunting this year and last. I can only see most his future "free" time spent bream fishing, even though he's currently pre-retirement age.

To a great extent, "middlemen" leasing companies have destroyed their own markets. CWD regulations and CWD fear-mongering have also contributed greatly to decreased interest in deer hunting in West TN & Western Middle TN.

Each year, I hear fewer rifle shots in the surrounding area. This year was the least in my lifetime.

Another issue going along with the decrease in both the number of deer hunters and the intensity with which they hunt: The "type" hunting that is declining and trending forward.

Traditionally, most U.S. deer hunting could be described as "sport" deer hunting, albeit most hunters have eaten their venison, but still have hunted more for the "sport" of hunting than for just the organic meat. THESE have been the hunters willing to buy & lease property for hunting.

But today, the main increase in deer hunters is coming for different reasons. More of the new deer hunters are killing deer for the main purpose of obtaining free-range organic meat. For this purpose, no large property, no expensive less is needed. In fact, most have friends & acquaintances begging them to come kill deer behind their homes.

These new "hunters" have no problem doing most their deer killing on small acreage tracts, "free" of any lease fees, travel, or other costs. They also don't have to spend time driving hours across TN, just to enjoy their new activity (which I'm not sure should really be called deer "hunting", as it's mostly just going out and shooting a deer for the meat). Yet, they get counted as deer "hunters" just the same as those now dying out who HAD spent huge sums of time & money for the traditional "sport" of deer hunting.
Good post .
 

DeerCamp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
3,839
As to the recent years' huge increase in duck hunters, I suspect there's a bit of a "fad" aspect to it, and it will soon be declining as a "sport" more than it advances. As with "sport" deer hunting, most of the hunters with the money are older, and dying out.

Many of the younger hunters will just decide to do something else with their future time, some day telling their own children & grandchildren that they used to do a lot of hunting when they were young, but haven't done any now for 30 years.

I don't see any of this as the end of traditional "sport" hunting in America.
There's just going to be fewer participants, and less time available for them.

But I do believe there are going to be less days allowed for legal hunting annually, and more of the deer hunting will become about deer population control than for anything to do with the "sport" of deer hunting. And, except in the case of government-contracted (or employed) "sharpshooters", most future deer hunting will exclude centerfire rifles, even in Tennessee (the way the national politics are trending).

I hope I'm wrong.
Just looking at numbers, the total number or hunters isn't drastically different, but the percentage sure is.

I think people used to hunt a lot more out of need for food than today, which probably had a lot to do with higher %.

If the percentage had stayed the same, I would think there would arguably be too many hunters.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,152
Location
Nashville, TN
Finally finished my full-season camera data analysis. I ended up with an insane 70 unique bucks (first graph). However, the big increase was in in yearling bucks. If you look at just the older bucks (second graph), not that much of a difference.
 

Attachments

  • BuckPop.jpg
    BuckPop.jpg
    67.3 KB · Views: 22
  • OlderBuckPop.jpg
    OlderBuckPop.jpg
    69.9 KB · Views: 24

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,152
Location
Nashville, TN
What dates/duration do you use for "full-season" camera data collection, and has it remained the same over the last 20 years (x axis)?
Remained the same. Baited census used to be the month of August, then unbaited from the start of September to end of December. Now, I'm only doing unbaited the entire time (beginning of September to end of December). I run unbaited cameras in August, but don't include those numbers.
 

megalomaniac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
14,763
Location
Mississippi
It certainly hasn't dropped 90% around the areas I hunt, but has been most definitely TRENDING as fewer hunters, and the remaining hunters spending fewer days afield annually hunting deer.

Another "trend" is that most of our hunters (and this is nationally, not just in TN) are an aging group, dying out faster than they're being replaced by younger hunters. This will have an effect, not only on land ownership patterns, but also on lease prices, and the future of hunting itself.

As you have already seen, many of the older hunters have purchased much of the land masses which was once "public" hunting areas. So the hunting land is still there, just not available to the general public. Yet, it's these same older (dying out) hunters who are each year themselves hunting less. Worse, most of their children & grandchildren have little interest in hunting, despite grandparents with large "recreational" properties.

Most of the expensive lease prices (in TN, most are way over-priced for what they are), have also been carried by these older hunters, as they tend to have much more discretionary money than the younger ones. As they have been dying out, the younger ones simply cannot afford the high lease prices, and many have simply just quit deer hunting. Some have switched to waterfowl, but more are just essentially quitting hunting, period.

As a good example, take a look at our friend "Ruger" on this site as a prime example.
He was one of the original founders of this deer-hunting website, and for years totally owned it.
Now he doesn't even deer hunt!

But not too many years ago, Ruger was a very avid deer hunter. He has since become an avid duck hunter, probably hasn't deer hunted at all the past couple years. Give him a couple more years, I bet he doesn't hunt ANYTHING half as much as he's done his duck hunting this year and last. I can only see most his future "free" time spent bream fishing, even though he's currently pre-retirement age.

To a great extent, "middlemen" leasing companies have destroyed their own markets. CWD regulations and CWD fear-mongering have also contributed greatly to decreased interest in deer hunting in West TN & Western Middle TN.

Each year, I hear fewer rifle shots in the surrounding area. This year was the least in my lifetime.

Another issue going along with the decrease in both the number of deer hunters and the intensity with which they hunt: The "type" hunting that is declining and trending forward.

Traditionally, most U.S. deer hunting could be described as "sport" deer hunting, albeit most hunters have eaten their venison, but still have hunted more for the "sport" of hunting than for just the organic meat. THESE have been the hunters willing to buy & lease property for hunting.

But today, the main increase in deer hunters is coming for different reasons. More of the new deer hunters are killing deer for the main purpose of obtaining free-range organic meat. For this purpose, no large property, no expensive less is needed. In fact, most have friends & acquaintances begging them to come kill deer behind their homes.

These new "hunters" have no problem doing most their deer killing on small acreage tracts, "free" of any lease fees, travel, or other costs. They also don't have to spend time driving hours across TN, just to enjoy their new activity (which I'm not sure should really be called deer "hunting", as it's mostly just going out and shooting a deer for the meat). Yet, they get counted as deer "hunters" just the same as those now dying out who HAD spent huge sums of time & money for the traditional "sport" of deer hunting.
I almost feel.sorry for you TN guys.

Down here in MS, if you want to deer hunt and you don't own land, the cheapest lease you will find is $7 per acre. And that's some crappy habitat. I'm paying $10 per acre for terrible hunting, but paying extra for the convenience of it being 8 miles outside a town of 75,000 people. But if you want to hunt deer with annual potential of 140 class... well that's up to $40 per acre all day long.

It's considered normal to pay $1000 per year for a deer lease that's 1 hunter per 80 acres. You can find some for $500 per year memberships, but they are running 1 member per 50 acres. Decent camps are $2500 per year, and there's thousands of folks who don't bat an eye at that. $5000 per year dues get you into the potential for a 140 class buck, but you won't set foot in the door on the best managed properties that shoot 4 or 5 140 class bucks annually for less than $10,000, and most of those are also equity clubs with a 350,000 to 750,000 buy in.

I guess we just have a lot more discretionary income when it comes to deer hunting.
 

megalomaniac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
14,763
Location
Mississippi
And what's even worse... a lot of those prices don't include turkey. $5 per acre is the norm for properties that hold a few birds, and I've seen properties full of birds bringing $20 per acre.... literally just for access rights from Mar 8 thru May1.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,152
Location
Nashville, TN
Those are insane numbers Mega, but I don't doubt them for one second. Although a lot of hunters in TN complain about high lease prices, they've never leased in the Deep South. South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana all have crazy-high lease prices.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,152
Location
Nashville, TN
The lease I looked at in FL was 1,000 acres, 10 guys(families included), $10k each annually. That's a lot of money to shoot deer, pigs and a couple turkeys. I couldn't justify it knowing that I would only hunt if it was too windy to fish.

Edit- this was almost 10yrs ago
And you'll see crazy high prices in the states that border Florida, especially southern Alabama and Georgia, and South Carolina. All those Florida hunters leasing land in areas with better deer than most of Florida has.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,152
Location
Nashville, TN
just curious how far down cathole y'all are,i got some friends that live on cathole,across from the orchard that's on ray bells old place
The access to Cathole is actually at the top of the ridge on Sycamore Landing Rd, north side of road.
 

BigAl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
21,176
Location
Fayette County, TN US
In Fayette Co, we are paying for 900 acres, 9 members, 1200 per member. Used to be 1500 per member and they removed turkey. I think that's reasonable, or at least it was 5 years ago. Funny how we see and kill less deer (reasons debated on another thread) but the price remains the same. The owners and farmers dont care that the hunting experience had declined.
 

Latest posts

Top