Anyone from Cathole Lease still on the forum?
- Thread starter BSK
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BSK
Well-Known Member
Actually, same price, and drones don't like any timber standing (there is still considerable timber standing, which I don't mind killing, but would be a problem for the drone).
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
I can't say this enough either. Unfortunately, both extremes of each of the last 2 years have proven to be a disappointment on our place. We've already put the chainsaws to work. A lot to do - because most of us on our place are really frustrated with how the last 2 seasons have gone. Even more big changes coming this year
BSK
Well-Known Member
Those are some great bucks UPSman!
We didn't have any monsters, but one mature 10-point buck in the 140s, a 3 1/2 year-old 8 in the upper 130s, a 3 1/2 year-old 9 in the upper 120s, and a 3 1/2 year-old 10 I thought would go 125-130 but measured 131 once I had killed him.
We didn't have any monsters, but one mature 10-point buck in the 140s, a 3 1/2 year-old 8 in the upper 130s, a 3 1/2 year-old 9 in the upper 120s, and a 3 1/2 year-old 10 I thought would go 125-130 but measured 131 once I had killed him.
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Y'all.just need some yeller akerns and u r set! 
Smo
Well-Known Member
I noticed more younger bucks in Northern Humphreys County than I normally do & older buck sightings & pics were way down this season..
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Has fawn recruitment changed over past 3 years?
That will change populations faster than anything, even 'earn a buck' harvests.
By a stroke of luck, in 2022 coyotes had an outbreak of (I'm assuming distemper) on my main farm. Fawn recruitment went from 15% 10 year average up to 50% that year. We made a concerted effort to not let any reestablish as survivors moved in... taking 24 dogs in 2023. Fawn recruitment this year was 110%.
Strange thing though... bobcats have taken over (we have killed 4 this deer season), and we have lost quite a few fawns since the spots have come off. We haven't shot them, not sure if the neighbors are the culprit, the bobcats are the culprit, or what...
That will change populations faster than anything, even 'earn a buck' harvests.
By a stroke of luck, in 2022 coyotes had an outbreak of (I'm assuming distemper) on my main farm. Fawn recruitment went from 15% 10 year average up to 50% that year. We made a concerted effort to not let any reestablish as survivors moved in... taking 24 dogs in 2023. Fawn recruitment this year was 110%.
Strange thing though... bobcats have taken over (we have killed 4 this deer season), and we have lost quite a few fawns since the spots have come off. We haven't shot them, not sure if the neighbors are the culprit, the bobcats are the culprit, or what...
I don't know, but I'm assuming the cathole Rd lease is on the right side of the road, but I have no clue anymore. I hunted there maybe 12 years when the tower was there. We had a regular trailer with a job trailer butted up to it. Ray Bell leased the land, but we leased the land down below from an old man & the deal was they could duck hunt on our lease & we could deer hunt on what Ray Bell leased. It went both ways because there was a guy from AR who killed a big 14 pointer typical. I miss that place! We had to get the trailers out & they tore the tower down.
Since we had Cathole logged 4 years ago now, our fawn recruitment is way up. We had pictures of several does with twin fawns this year. Before the logging we had coyotes galore. Now we are covered up in bobcats. Everyone who hunted this year saw a bobcat or 3. They would walk thru the yard where the cabin is.
Pockets- we are across the road from where Ray Bell had that land. We've never had a tower on our place but they did pour a pad for one. You should have seen the buck that was killed on the land they just cleared and sold by the county dump.
It was a huge buck.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Maybe that's the cause. I've noticed a decline in coyote population since we timbered and a resulting increase in fox and bobcat populations. I don't care at all about bobcats or foxes, but I care a great deal about coyotes. They are major fawn killers. Our fawn recruitment is up since our timbered areas filled in with early-stage regrowth. It was down a little this year, but I'm assuming that is the result of last year's severe drought. The deer went into winter in terrible shape, hence lower fawn production this last summer. But I'm assuming we will see fawn recruiitment rebound next year due to phenomenal food resources this fall/winter.
Are you talking about the land near the transfer station (trash drop-off), at the intersection of Bakerville Rd and Old Hwy 13?
BSK
Well-Known Member
I don't know if we had a coyote die-off, or if coyotes - being sight hunters - don't like all the brushy regrowth we've created. I still see a bunch on camera, but while going back through past year's data to add October data to my daily buck photos research, I noticed we used to see even more coyotes on camera than we do now. Back around 2016-19 we had a TON of coyotes. Now, nowhere near as many.
BSK
Well-Known Member
And for those that don't know, the Cathole Lease (about 980 acres) is 1.7 miles as the crow flies, from my 500-acre property. What separates us is Dr. Lodan's property (the Lasik eye surgeon). He has about 700 acres. He's also a member of the adjoining 180-acre Buffalo River Hunting Club, which is a high-dollar duck club. Cathole and my place were both logged by the same group in the same year, although they had everything thinned, while I had a much heavier cutting but only in pockets (1/5 of the property, 100 acres broken into 7 patches).
Yes, Mike ran into one of the guys at the Log Cabin and he had killed 2 huge bucks on that land in mz season. Im wanting to say 15 point or something like that. Just sat down and rattled about 3 seconds and the buck just walked in and got shot. This was his first or second year hunting.
We have another 100 acres on the other side of Chalk Hollow rd. I believe we have 1086 acres total.
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BSK
Well-Known Member
I was offered all that land behind the transfer station (it actually runs all the way to I-40) right after it had been clearcut. It was close to 10,000 acres and they asked if I would buy it for $50/acre! At the time, the property had no hunting value, and even at $50/acre, times 10,000 acres is a lot of money! But what a great investment it would have made if you could hold on to it for 20 years.
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
Well-Known Member
BSK, is it at all possible in this situation that neighbors are shooting 0 to very few Does, and the fawn bucks from last year was pushed away from the mother this year. Just curious about that in general
BSK
Well-Known Member
The neighbors are shooting zero deer all together! Sounds crazy, but hunting pressure in my immediate area has probably dropped 90% in the last 5-6 years. Everybody duck hunts instead. Plus, much of the land has become locked up by large landholders that kill very, very few deer. This year, all of MZ and opening week of gun season combined, we might have heard 10 total shots. Back in the day, we would hear 100+ opening weekend of gun alone.
It's crazy, opening day of mz and gun season sounded like the Taliban was being fought in Humphreys county. Nowadays you may hear 5 shots in a morning. The guys down in Cherry Bottoms make up for it in duck season now.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
It certainly hasn't dropped 90% around the areas I hunt, but has been most definitely TRENDING as fewer hunters, and the remaining hunters spending fewer days afield annually hunting deer.
Another "trend" is that most of our hunters (and this is nationally, not just in TN) are an aging group, dying out faster than they're being replaced by younger hunters. This will have an effect, not only on land ownership patterns, but also on lease prices, and the future of hunting itself.
As you have already seen, many of the older hunters have purchased much of the land masses which was once "public" hunting areas. So the hunting land is still there, just not available to the general public. Yet, it's these same older (dying out) hunters who are each year themselves hunting less. Worse, most of their children & grandchildren have little interest in hunting, despite grandparents with large "recreational" properties.
Most of the expensive lease prices (in TN, most are way over-priced for what they are), have also been carried by these older hunters, as they tend to have much more discretionary money than the younger ones. As they have been dying out, the younger ones simply cannot afford the high lease prices, and many have simply just quit deer hunting. Some have switched to waterfowl, but more are just essentially quitting hunting, period.
As a good example, take a look at our friend "Ruger" on this site as a prime example.
He was one of the original founders of this deer-hunting website, and for years totally owned it.
Now he doesn't even deer hunt!
But not too many years ago, Ruger was a very avid deer hunter. He has since become an avid duck hunter, probably hasn't deer hunted at all the past couple years. Give him a couple more years, I bet he doesn't hunt ANYTHING half as much as he's done his duck hunting this year and last. I can only see most his future "free" time spent bream fishing, even though he's currently pre-retirement age.
To a great extent, "middlemen" leasing companies have destroyed their own markets. CWD regulations and CWD fear-mongering have also contributed greatly to decreased interest in deer hunting in West TN & Western Middle TN.
Each year, I hear fewer rifle shots in the surrounding area. This year was the least in my lifetime.
Another issue going along with the decrease in both the number of deer hunters and the intensity with which they hunt: The "type" hunting that is declining and trending forward.
Traditionally, most U.S. deer hunting could be described as "sport" deer hunting, albeit most hunters have eaten their venison, but still have hunted more for the "sport" of hunting than for just the organic meat. THESE have been the hunters willing to buy & lease property for hunting.
But today, the main increase in deer hunters is coming for different reasons. More of the new deer hunters are killing deer for the main purpose of obtaining free-range organic meat. For this purpose, no large property, no expensive less is needed. In fact, most have friends & acquaintances begging them to come kill deer behind their homes.
These new "hunters" have no problem doing most their deer killing on small acreage tracts, "free" of any lease fees, travel, or other costs. They also don't have to spend time driving hours across TN, just to enjoy their new activity (which I'm not sure should really be called deer "hunting", as it's mostly just going out and shooting a deer for the meat). Yet, they get counted as deer "hunters" just the same as those now dying out who HAD spent huge sums of time & money for the traditional "sport" of deer hunting.
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TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
As to the recent years' huge increase in duck hunters, I suspect there's a bit of a "fad" aspect to it, and it will soon be declining as a "sport" more than it advances. As with "sport" deer hunting, most of the hunters with the money are older, and dying out.
Many of the younger hunters will just decide to do something else with their future time, some day telling their own children & grandchildren that they used to do a lot of hunting when they were young, but haven't done any now for 30 years.
I don't see any of this as the end of traditional "sport" hunting in America.
There's just going to be fewer participants, and less time available for them.
But I do believe there are going to be less days allowed for legal hunting annually, and more of the deer hunting will become about deer population control than for anything to do with the "sport" of deer hunting. And, except in the case of government-contracted (or employed) "sharpshooters", most future deer hunting will exclude centerfire rifles, even in Tennessee (the way the national politics are trending).
I hope I'm wrong.
Many of the younger hunters will just decide to do something else with their future time, some day telling their own children & grandchildren that they used to do a lot of hunting when they were young, but haven't done any now for 30 years.
I don't see any of this as the end of traditional "sport" hunting in America.
There's just going to be fewer participants, and less time available for them.
But I do believe there are going to be less days allowed for legal hunting annually, and more of the deer hunting will become about deer population control than for anything to do with the "sport" of deer hunting. And, except in the case of government-contracted (or employed) "sharpshooters", most future deer hunting will exclude centerfire rifles, even in Tennessee (the way the national politics are trending).
I hope I'm wrong.
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BSK
Well-Known Member
I agree TheLBLman that the "face" of deer hunting is changing. Not only are there fewer hunters out there, but land ownership patterns have changed, leases have locked up large acreages, and most hunters are now very, very picky about what they kill, which all leads to fewer deer being killed each year. In fact, that's why I have to question these ideas that much lower deer kills in TN over the last 5 or so years are due to less deer. I think it is due to fewer hunters being FAR more picky about what they shoot than they used to be.
As for the duck hunting, it may well be a fad. But 20 years ago, the only diked ground in my area was the adjoining high-dollar duck club. Now half of Cherry Bottom from the north end almost to the Bakerville Rd bridge over the Buffalo River is now diked and flooded for ducks. The farmers have to be making a killing off all these duck hunters (which is fine by me).
As for the duck hunting, it may well be a fad. But 20 years ago, the only diked ground in my area was the adjoining high-dollar duck club. Now half of Cherry Bottom from the north end almost to the Bakerville Rd bridge over the Buffalo River is now diked and flooded for ducks. The farmers have to be making a killing off all these duck hunters (which is fine by me).
