I have 2 Savage mls. One I have no problem with removing the spent primer. The other one is nearly impossible without a tool to push it out from the back...Any cure for this?
Smokeless 10ml problem
- Thread starter cmn
- Start date
Smokeless
I think this will solve your problem:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002228513?pid=895782
Looks like the best way to carry is to use some discarded fly line to make a loop to wear around your neck until needed. I suspect we can find some of that.
It really works well!
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002228513?pid=895782
Looks like the best way to carry is to use some discarded fly line to make a loop to wear around your neck until needed. I suspect we can find some of that.
It really works well!
A Savage MLII holds the primer by the rim in the bolt. That capper wont work.
Did you mean the old Savage ML that used the modules? That is a whole other matter entirely. If it is the old module model, your vent liner might be wasted too. Those vents are much different than MLII vent liners. Not sure you can even get them any more. The plug would need to be converted to take the MLII vent liners.
I did find a guy making the old style module for $12 each.
Did you mean the old Savage ML that used the modules? That is a whole other matter entirely. If it is the old module model, your vent liner might be wasted too. Those vents are much different than MLII vent liners. Not sure you can even get them any more. The plug would need to be converted to take the MLII vent liners.
I did find a guy making the old style module for $12 each.
no I should have stated 10ml2
Chief44
Well-Known Member
The spent primers on mine are also hard to get out sometimes. Not sure what causes this as it doesn't happen every time. Usually I can close the bolt and dry fire it on the spent primer and then it will slide out. Before I reload it of course. Not sure if it's good on the firing pin to do this or not but it usually works.
I will try this....thx
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The root cause is improper headspace. The firing pin drives the primer cup into the breechplug. Then, when the charge goes off, the primer is blown partially out of the primer cup into the bolt face. The gmb work around works by driving the primer back into the primer cup with the firing pin strike.
This is my experience as well. I keep a pair of needle nose pliers in my possibles bag just in case this happens. But for me it happens less often with Federal primers.
I use CCI primers and have never had this happen.
Huntaholic
Well-Known Member
This.
What loads are y'all shooting? Could it be too much pressure??
I shoot 44 grains of AA5744 with MMP high pressure black sabots and .45 cal 250 grain Hornady XTPs with CCI 209 primers.
I shoot the same as well with no issue...
BringBackThe80s
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If this is a new issue in that gun with that load and you haven't already done so, then check and confirm 1) that your vent liner has not eroded out of spec; and 2) that your breechplug does not have carbon buildup between the primer and the venting.
The empty space between the ventliner and the primer acts as a shock absorber for the pressure spike inside your barrel--much the same as a muffler on a car or suppressor on a rifle. If the vent is eroded or the open space is filled in with carbon, then the pressure spike is transmitted straight through to your primer and you will get more blowback, more jamming, and possibly more flattening.
The empty space between the ventliner and the primer acts as a shock absorber for the pressure spike inside your barrel--much the same as a muffler on a car or suppressor on a rifle. If the vent is eroded or the open space is filled in with carbon, then the pressure spike is transmitted straight through to your primer and you will get more blowback, more jamming, and possibly more flattening.
Smo
Well-Known Member
This will solve the OP problem…..
This thread is older than the flint in my lock….
This thread is older than the flint in my lock….
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Or his breech plug vent is overdue for replacing. After so many shots the whole in the vent burns out too large cause more back pressure, pushing the primer backwards. Worth a shot replacing the vent liner.
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Savage told me to only use Winchester primers also. My issues went away.
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Think about it. If headspace was correctly set, the primer cannot be blown back because it has nowhere to go. I'm shooting 40 cal sml's with no vent at all mimicking centerfire cartridges at over 70kpsi and with properly set headspace, the primer does not move.
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Im curious if your sml is like the MLII? The primer slides loosely into a slot on the bolt face of those.
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Headspace is important and when set properly can solve or avoid many issues.
Anatomy of a breechplug.
Flame channel = The area between the vent and primer. This area volume is important. Too little can cause swollen primers. Too much and ignition performance will suffer. Should be cleaned periodically with a 5/32" driil bit.
Vent = The tiny hole in the nose, typically .030" to .040". This hole keeps powder from falling thru the primer hole when when loading powder before priming. It also serves as a metering device to slow the building of pressure in the flame channel. This orifice opens up gradually due to flame cutting by the flow of superheated gasses. Fast powders, like n110, imrsr4759 tent to erode it fastest. Hotter loads of slower powder can do the same thing. The breechplug can be modified to accept a carbide bushing, to replace the ventliner, that will likely outlast the gun under normal hunting conditions.
Primer pocket = The space that holds the primer cup and seals the primer cup to the breechplug.
After ignition, pressure builds in the flame channel the entire time the bullet is in the barrel. This is referred to a "barrel time". Like water thru a nozzle, a given amount will flow at a given pressure. The flame channel fills at that rate. a larger or worn vent or a small, carboned up flame channel will build pressure faster and to a higher pressure. A clean flame channel or a tight vent will build pressure slower.
The remainder of this discussion will follow the photo below.
Top breechplug standing on end, New and never used. Notice a small shelf or ring down in the primer area. This is a very narrow shelf that is approx .280" into the primer pocket. It just so happens that a Winchester 209 primer measures right about that length. The primer to the right of that plug is a Winchester 209 primer. Notice the bulge in its diameter, That is what helps seal it to the plug in a Savage plug. The middle plug is an unmodified plug. I pushed the primer into it by hand. It is not seated on that little shelf. It is just tight in fit. The bottom plug has a shim installed in the primer pocket that makes the pocket .180" deep. This allows the primer to seal on its face AND not be allowed to be driven further into the plug by the firing pin. So, a properly set up Savage plug has a shelf for the primer to seal against and the inside diameter sized for the primer you intend to use. (Federals are hotter but are straight, not always round, and do not seal as well as Winchesters).
So, to recap, All Savages seal on the sides of the primer cup and have a tendancy to be driven in by the firing pin. Primer cup tension fit in the plug is very ticky, making one rifle stick where another does not. So, when the firing pin strikes the primer, it is driven deeper into the plug, leaving a void between the primer cup and the bolt face. Then when pressure builds in the flame channel, the gold part of the primer inside the cup is driven out of the cup into the bolt face. This causes the primer to stick in the bolt face. By properly supporting the primer, proper headspace is achieved and the gold part of the primer cannot be blown out of its cup because the cup is sandwiched between the bolt face and the primer shelf in the plug giving the gold part nowhere to go.
Yes, my LRMP modules are slip fit in the bolt face.
And the picture below is of a slip fit savage rifle action bolt face with a savage plug and a winchester 209 primer inbetween. It is set up for maximum primer insertion into the plug for added support to stop primer cup swelling with higher pressure loads.
Below is a single shot 45-70 converted to sml with a Savage plug. It also has the primer nose supported. The typical rifle firing pin is set to .055". Proper headspace is a must for proper firing pin strikes.
Anatomy of a breechplug.
Flame channel = The area between the vent and primer. This area volume is important. Too little can cause swollen primers. Too much and ignition performance will suffer. Should be cleaned periodically with a 5/32" driil bit.
Vent = The tiny hole in the nose, typically .030" to .040". This hole keeps powder from falling thru the primer hole when when loading powder before priming. It also serves as a metering device to slow the building of pressure in the flame channel. This orifice opens up gradually due to flame cutting by the flow of superheated gasses. Fast powders, like n110, imrsr4759 tent to erode it fastest. Hotter loads of slower powder can do the same thing. The breechplug can be modified to accept a carbide bushing, to replace the ventliner, that will likely outlast the gun under normal hunting conditions.
Primer pocket = The space that holds the primer cup and seals the primer cup to the breechplug.
After ignition, pressure builds in the flame channel the entire time the bullet is in the barrel. This is referred to a "barrel time". Like water thru a nozzle, a given amount will flow at a given pressure. The flame channel fills at that rate. a larger or worn vent or a small, carboned up flame channel will build pressure faster and to a higher pressure. A clean flame channel or a tight vent will build pressure slower.
The remainder of this discussion will follow the photo below.
Top breechplug standing on end, New and never used. Notice a small shelf or ring down in the primer area. This is a very narrow shelf that is approx .280" into the primer pocket. It just so happens that a Winchester 209 primer measures right about that length. The primer to the right of that plug is a Winchester 209 primer. Notice the bulge in its diameter, That is what helps seal it to the plug in a Savage plug. The middle plug is an unmodified plug. I pushed the primer into it by hand. It is not seated on that little shelf. It is just tight in fit. The bottom plug has a shim installed in the primer pocket that makes the pocket .180" deep. This allows the primer to seal on its face AND not be allowed to be driven further into the plug by the firing pin. So, a properly set up Savage plug has a shelf for the primer to seal against and the inside diameter sized for the primer you intend to use. (Federals are hotter but are straight, not always round, and do not seal as well as Winchesters).
So, to recap, All Savages seal on the sides of the primer cup and have a tendancy to be driven in by the firing pin. Primer cup tension fit in the plug is very ticky, making one rifle stick where another does not. So, when the firing pin strikes the primer, it is driven deeper into the plug, leaving a void between the primer cup and the bolt face. Then when pressure builds in the flame channel, the gold part of the primer inside the cup is driven out of the cup into the bolt face. This causes the primer to stick in the bolt face. By properly supporting the primer, proper headspace is achieved and the gold part of the primer cannot be blown out of its cup because the cup is sandwiched between the bolt face and the primer shelf in the plug giving the gold part nowhere to go.
Yes, my LRMP modules are slip fit in the bolt face.
And the picture below is of a slip fit savage rifle action bolt face with a savage plug and a winchester 209 primer inbetween. It is set up for maximum primer insertion into the plug for added support to stop primer cup swelling with higher pressure loads.
Below is a single shot 45-70 converted to sml with a Savage plug. It also has the primer nose supported. The typical rifle firing pin is set to .055". Proper headspace is a must for proper firing pin strikes.
Last edited:
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Great explanation! I see now why Savage told me to only use winchester primers too. Btw my primer slot in the boltface is much larger than yours. Only problem I ever had was when I used CCI primers. Tons of misfires, winchester primers have been perfect for 20 yrs in my gun.
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I replaced an old one like that on a gun I eventually traded. It worked fine.
It is amazing how far smokeless has evolved now.
