Early Velvet season this year?

[knightrider]

Problem is, what percentage of those bucks are in the advanced age-classes? THAT is what could be troubling.

Statewide on 800 bucks id say not very

 

[redblood]

Statewide on 800 bucks id say not very

I wonder how many died from an arrow wound and were never counted. Beanfield shots can get kind of long

 

[knightrider]

I wonder how many died from an arrow wound and were never counted. Beanfield shots can get kind of long

Poachers gonna poach, season no season, velvet hut , bow, muzzle loader, gun, there will always be cheaters! Now granted if twra actually gave a damn about the resource or the hunters more would be done to curtail the poaching

 

[BSK]

So at this point for CWD there is either kill them all or let it decimate the herds and spread? One would think there was a better plan than that?

CWD is here to stay and it will continue to spread, as it has done everywhere else it has been found. The mistake is assuming it is decimating the deer herds. It has not done so anywhere where it has been found. Kill deer, yes. Decimate the population, no. I strongly suspect we will have to let Nature work this out, just as it has done for many, many other diseases. Eventually, deer immune to CWD will dominate the population, but they could take a very, very long time (many, many generations because of how slowly CWD kills).

 

[BSK]

Without adequate sampling, we are just all guessing. I suspect "most" Unit CWD hunters are more selective, and likely looking for 3.5+ bucks, due to hunting with a rifle with plenty of killing range, when compared to hunters outside of Unit CWD, who are limited to archery equipment on private property. I suspect non-Unit CWD hunters are more eager to take first ethical shot within archery range due to desire to kill velvet buck, limited effective range, and just a three day hunt opportunity. These are generalizations, based on the more eager younger hunters I have talked to that have hunted velvet hunt over last few years, both in Unit CWD and outside of Unit CWD.

I am far more worried about gun hunters during the velvet hunt than bow hunters, for the very reasons you stated.

 

[BSK]

Statewide on 800 bucks id say not very

I'll bet it's a high percentage for the CWD Zones.

 

[Planking]

Curious about the velvet hunt "haters" posting here. I have hunted the "velvet weekend" every year since the start, even in the hurricane remnants a few years ago. I have yet to even see one and I have sweat my ass off every year but I'm there because I love hunting. Are you upset that people who are willing to gut it out legally in the heat and bugs to get a chance at a velvet buck are afforded the opportunity to do so? Aside from the poaching issue which happens year round and is seemingly not a priority of the TWRA, if there are so few people legally hunting and killing and it's part of your bag limit, what makes you so mad? Is it that someone else may get "your deer"...lol... I haven't seen any stats that reflect a negative impact to the deer population from "velvet weekend". And, I don't completely understand the objection to rifle and CWD tie in to the velvet season. Is it just the poaching problem that seemingly gives them 3 days to shoot the gun and not raise suspicion? Isn't the goal to remove as many deer in those CWD zones as possible? Thought that was what was "needed" to curtail the disease (per the "experts")? If I'm missing something, please educate me on why CWD counties are allowed to use rifles (not in one of the counties and hope never to be). Personally, if they open a slingshot season, I will be out there regardless of the weather. I don't worry about what other people are doing as long as they are doing it legally. Hunting for me is personal. I don't get jealous when other people have more free time to hunt than I do or have better land and are able to take deer every year. I didn't get mad when they legalized crossbows in bow season or inline muzzelloaders. This whole "velvet" season started because some people got jealous that KY and some other states started their season early enough to be able to kill velvet bucks and they wanted to have their opportunity. It was not biologically based nor was it based on the hope to get more folks into hunting (additionaly revenue). I was not one of those clamoring to get that season opened but as stated earlier, I will participate in any legal season for game I hunt. I guess bottom line (trigger warning...lol), if you don't like that others have an opportunity to get a velvet buck, get your ass in the woods or stfu.

I want to hunt that's why im upset. I live to bow hunt. Im not in a CWD zone but i have hordes of thermal hunters out here terrorizing our community and i have to fight them at night. I don't have any spare time to hunt. Which is what i want to do. TWRA has a wait until they shoot strategy when it comes to thermal road hunting. It's so ineffective that has to be intentional. They all use the thermals to look for the game warden's vehicles and then they tell all their poacher buddies and post it on facebook. That's why the crowds are so large. They then harass the game wardens and myself because they want to road hunt the property in the area. I want to hunt. I just can't when there is a crime wave every night during deer season.

 

[Kelljp]

Wonder what impact taking these velvet bucks out of the breeding cycle will do to the quality of the future buck's genetic makeup ?

 

[knightrider]

Wonder what impact taking these velvet bucks out of the breeding cycle will do to the quality of the future buck's genetic makeup ?

Hardly any if at all, they have already passed plenty of their genes, and most of the antler gene comes from the doe ,anyways as i read it

 

[themanpcl]

I want to hunt that's why im upset. I live to bow hunt. Im not in a CWD zone but i have hordes of thermal hunters out here terrorizing our community and i have to fight them at night. I don't have any spare time to hunt. Which is what i want to do. TWRA has a wait until they shoot strategy when it comes to thermal road hunting. It's so ineffective that has to be intentional. They all use the thermals to look for the game warden's vehicles and then they tell all their poacher buddies and post it on facebook. That's why the crowds are so large. They then harass the game wardens and myself because they want to road hunt the property in the area. I want to hunt. I just can't when there is a crime wave every night during deer season.

That sux for sure. So it's not a velvet issue but a criminal issue in your case.

 

[themanpcl]

CWD is here to stay and it will continue to spread, as it has done everywhere else it has been found. The mistake is assuming it is decimating the deer herds. It has not done so anywhere where it has been found. Kill deer, yes. Decimate the population, no. I strongly suspect we will have to let Nature work this out, just as it has done for many, many other diseases. Eventually, deer immune to CWD will dominate the population, but they could take a very, very long time (many, many generations because of how slowly CWD kills).

My understanding from other states where it has been a problem, several years duration/lousy hunting.

 

[Kelljp]

I wonder how many died from an arrow wound and were never counted. Beanfield shots can get kind of long

I seen a picture of one three days after the velvet hunt that had been hit high with a crossbow bolt that a friend found on his farm.
I'm sure tracking one before a frost kills back the vegetation makes it difficult.

 

[BSK]

My understanding from other states where it has been a problem, several years duration/lousy hunting.

I have seen just the opposite. The hunting is still very good in areas where CWD has been around the longest (Wyoming, Nebraska, Colorado, Wisconsin, Illinois).

 

[TheLBLman]

I have seen just the opposite. The hunting is still very good in areas where CWD has been around the longest (Wyoming, Nebraska, Colorado, Wisconsin, Illinois).

AND, those state game agencies didn't destroy the future of deer hunting, much less eradicate the deer.

What TWRA has done with the Unit CWD has been much like what the government has done with the fear-mongering of Covid. In both cases, the responses and edicts of government have been overall worse than the disease.

The CWD response of TWRA is killing the sport of deer hunting as well as any ideals of deer management. At to this TWRA's apparent inability to turn the tide against the growing issue of trophy buck poaching. It also seems many, even on here, seem to think sitting over a corn pile during the velvet hunt is not poaching, just because they're using a bow.

The trend is more & more the general public is seeing "hunters" more as "poachers" and "eradicators" of nuisance or diseased deer, rather than "sportsmen".

At some point in the future (if such asinine policy continues), there will be so few "sport" (sportsman) deer hunters (like most of us), that the general public will see no reason we should continue to have deer "hunting" by "sportsmen".

This leads to a future where state & federal government employees control the deer populations (i.e. government hunters) rather than sportsmen hunters.

I do hope this turns around, but that's the direction we're going with TWRA's Unit CWD. And it is also the instant death of private lands deer management, whether you manage 50 acres or 5,000 acres. Doesn't matter. The TWRA CWD goal is to kill as many deer as possible, but especially bucks older than 2 1/2.

 

[tellico4x4]

We've only had two members hunt since the velvet season started a few years ago, neither have killed one yet. Of course they are trying to kill the biggest bucks on the property each summer. While they are easily patterned, they've found out that they still act like big deer do by staying 10yrds out of range, coming out on opposite end of plot, etc. What started out for them as a novelty type thing, has become a real challenge. Have heard both say that when they do kill, that they will be done.

 

[TheLBLman]

Related to this, people, especially non-hunters, in West TN CWD counties, had a sudden refusal to eat venison. When masses of people suddenly refuse to eat it, masses of hunters stop shooting as many female deer, many of which were given to non-hunting friends and venison food banks.

Do we still have a "Hunters for the Hungry" program in the CWD counties?

 

[TheLBLman]

We've only had two members hunt since the velvet season started a few years ago, neither have killed one yet. Of course they are trying to kill the biggest bucks on the property each summer. While they are easily patterned, they've found out that they still act like big deer do by staying 10yrds out of range, coming out on opposite end of plot, etc. What started out for them as a novelty type thing, has become a real challenge. Have heard both say that when they do kill, that they will be done.

This has pretty much been my personal thoughts, i.e. a novelty type thing.

While I see that older bucks are more patternable around agricultural crops (found more in West TN), they are much less patternable (more nomadic) in woodlands areas (more like much of Middle & East TN).

Just a guess, but I suspect somewhere around half the velvet bucks taken in Middle & East TN are being taken over a corn pile. Spend a little time around your County's Farmers' Co-Op a week before the velvet hunt, and just observe who is suddenly buying the bags of corn.

What started out for them as a novelty type thing, has become a real challenge. Have heard both say that when they do kill, that they will be done.

I agree. Real challenge with a bow in a more wilderness or timberland area (non-big-ag area), and pursued fair chase. Never mind that most, even the avid, deer hunters have little or zero interest in deer hunting during the heat of summer.

For those who are interested, that interest is totally driven by the allure of big antlers with velvet (not eating the venison, even though it still can be done). Most of us understand, appreciate the allure of big antlers. And every one of us is in fact a "trophy" deer hunter simply because we see every deer we kill as a "trophy". Most of also eat our venison, therefore most us could also be labeled as "meat" hunters as well, or as I would label most of us, "sportsmen" and conservationists.

But the general public sees the velvet hunt as 100% "trophy" hunting, which they are using in attempt to cast us all in a bad light, especially when so much of it is accomplished by illegal means, going both against the law and the former rules of fair chase. On a per deer taken basis, I suspect the illegal means during the velvet hunt far exceed any other hunting dates.

Even in Middle & East TN, there is a rise now in the use of suppressed rifles and night-vision scopes to kill deer with rifles (illegally) during archery season. This becomes the growing public view of deer hunters, i.e. they're a bunch of outlaws, poachers, so for the general good of the public, we should outlaw "sport" hunting.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Not to go off topic but it was discussed in previous post.....

I agree that the response to CWD is most likely worse than the disease itself.
I've hunted Wyoming multiple times and Colorado, in CWD areas, and not once did I hear a local mention CWD?
So when CWD reaches our area...trying for bonus buck tags by hammering extra deer to be tested and killing as many as possible....will in no way be part of our management plan....yes, if we see a sick deer that is obviously suffering we would do a mercy killing....but that practice is in place today.
My thing is that if it is possible that a buck can live to 3.5 to 5.5 year old in a CWD area....and it is.....then we can manage for age class bucks that will satisfy "most" peoples goals....I'm not interested in slaughtering "extra" deer....which in the long run will likley do more harm than good population and age structure wise.

 

[fairchaser]

Whether you agree with the "Kill them all' strategy the state has adopted in the CWD zone or not, the bottom line is, everything that you have learned about deer management is now gone, gone, gone! It's hard to accept, but we must move on. You can't save the mature bucks because those are the bucks carrying CWD and the state wants them gone. You worry about decimating the deer population but that's the new goal. It's been said but the deer will adapt and overcome the disease and the additional pressure from hunters. They always have. I continue to hunt and pursue mature bucks and grateful for all the opportunities I have to get one. It's still a challenge.

 

[Boll Weevil]

3 day buck harvest totals from prior 3 years August velvet hunt, over 95 counties:

2020- 764
2021- 563
2022- 858

I'll add. I do not believe harvesting 1% of annual statewide kill in a 3 day velvet hunt impacts buck harvest structure on a statewide level, MAYBE a very localized level in Unit CWD.

Obviously not equally distributed but average bucks killed/county from 2020-2022 is 8, 6, and 9. There's probably more bucks hit by cars during the velvet season than killed by hunters. To Andy's point, the impact of the velvet season has thus far proven to be something less than negligible.