Odd rut timing western Middle TN?

348Winchester

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Aug 13, 2012
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1,863
Location
Morgan County
Northwest Morgan County:

First frost late September

Colder than normal October

Early November higher than normal temperatures.

Very dry.

Complete acorn crop failure.



Food plots came in late and thin.

Very few rubs.

Scraping activity much lower than normal.

Rutting activity delayed about 2 weeks.

What perplexes me is food plot use is low. Deer should be hammering the plots due to lack of mast and browse/greenery being freeze dried early.
 

BSK

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81,177
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Nashville, TN
Yes we had a good one
I asked, because we had a bumper acorn crop last year, and I observed/measured some really odd behavior. As I've mentioned before, lots of good research indicating that in a hardwood environment rubbing and scraping activity is driven by how much excess energy bucks have, and that excess energy is provided by big acorn crops. The result being bucks make many more rubs and scrapes in a good acorn year than in a bad one. I've only been running my video surveillance of scrapes project since 2020, and that year was a poor acorn year. So I expected 2021, being a bumper acorn year, to produce more scrape visits. And that's what I saw. But I wasn't expecting the odd timing of those visits. Below is a graph if the number of buck visits to scrapes per day for the two years. Normally, scraping peaks the first week of November for a mid-November peak of breeding. However, in 2021 - the bumper acorn year - scraping actually peaked in late October. In fact, for the first time ever, we had more bucks photographed on the property in October than in November. Looking at buck-doe chases caught on camera, it appears peak breeding occurred on the exact same dates in 2020 and 2021, but the pre-rut sign-making was far more advanced early in the year in the good acorn year. The vertical dashed line on the graph indicated November 1. In 2020, peak of scraping was at the classic time - first week of November. But in 2021 scraping was crazy the last half of October and then fell off into November.
 

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BSK

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What perplexes me is food plot use is low. Deer should be hammering the plots due to lack of mast and browse/greenery being freeze dried early.
I was seeing the very same thing. I was highly perplexed by the lack of usage of the plots up through 1st rut. However, NOW, after peak breeding, suddenly deer are all over the plots.
 

13pt

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Mid-TN
Well, this thread helps me feel better about my weird season. I hunt 4 different places spread out over 3 counties in eastern middle TN and run 19 cameras starting in July. I don't collect data and journal and such, though when I retire I'd love to do that, but it gives me a lot of insight. I also rarely post on here during deer season because I'm either working or hunting 🤷‍♂️. Anyway, here's the weirdness I've observed.

1) My largest lease of 3,200 acres has members widely reporting deer sightings are way down, and in some cases the worst they've ever seen it, and this is a trophy managed lease (on a minimal scale). Plenty of acorns and over 100 acres of agriculture and surrounded by even more. Rutting activity was only "pretty good" and only for a few days...and it was about a week or so later than usual, and then just shut down. I've seen less than 10 rubs (mostly in one spot) and would have normally seen 100-150 by now. One member did kill a 169" (green score), but then he hunts every single day of November...so there's that. Except for that one, fewer and smaller bucks killed this season. We do have a hog problem which USDA will come in after season and help minimize that issue, but that's been a problem a few years now. All-in-all a disappointment on this lease...unless you're the guy that killed the 169"...lol.

2) I live on 130 acres which I manage for quality deer and turkey habitat. It's not big enough to manage for trophy bucks, so I just target retaining high numbers of wildlife (of which I work closely with the local habitat biologist to do that right things). Plenty of acorns this year and surrounded by great agriculture. In July through mid-September I had a solid number of 2.5-3.5 year old bucks (9 to be exact of which 5 appeared to be 3.5). Also, regularly see does in the vicinity of 30 just based on having seen as many as 22 in my food plot while catching others on camera at the same time across the property, so I've estimated 1:3 or 1:4 buck to doe ratio every year. That should result in a solid rut and countless rubs and scrapes...NOTTA this year! I seriously have not seen one rub or scrape on my property and I've checked all the usual spots...very strange indeed. I run a couple of mock scrapes and have had minimal action on them...and I mean minimal. Over the past few weeks, I've only got a picture of 3 bucks in the 2.5-3.5 age range and one of them moved in here, so only 2 of the original 9, and I have a smorgasbord of food and cover on this property. No hogs here either. No signs of EHD in early season. The doe population seems to be halved as well. Very few shots fired on neighboring properties and I've only heard of one of those original 3.5 year old's being killed. Every other year I'll harbor a 4.5-5.5 on my property but that's not happened in a couple years now. Most weirdness I've seen since buying the property in 2007.

3) I have a small 80 acre lease in another county I've only had 5 years now. I don't manage it at all or maintain any food plots...just let it do it's thing. Plenty of acorns this year and some agriculture nearby. It's been covered up with deer every year and the buck-to-doe ratio is a bit out of whack at what appears to be about 1:5. It's never disappointed with very high levels of rubs and scrapes and rutting activity. My mock scrapes there stay highly active during the rut and off and on outside the rut. Only one of the past 5 years didn't offer up a 4.5-5.5 year old buck; however, hunting pressure around is higher than I would like to see. Well, this year tracked the previous 4 years on everything except the scrapes. I only seen three scrapes and I made two of those. My mock scrape action was way down. They would just walk right through them many times like they weren't there. The number of rubs were on par and the rutting activity was probably the best I've ever seen it albeit later than usual by about a week or more, but lasted a good 1.5 weeks at it's peak. The only TN buck I've taken this year (and I'm almost always tagged out by Thanksgiving) came off this property on December 3, and the days leading up to then showed the highest level of rutting activity. He happened to be my biggest 8pt I've taken in TN at 142" and age guessed at 5.5 based on tooth wear. Trail cam pictures guessed him at 4.5. He literally just showed up out of the blue a week before taking him on December 3. All-in-all, this spot didn't disappoint, but the lack of scraping and reaction to my mock scrapes was way off...and the rut was notably late as everywhere else seemed to be.

4) I'll keep this one short. There's a public property I hunt in another county because it's a bow only hunting area. This was the worst year by far which was echoed by some others I chatted with during the hunt. It was the second year with zero acorn crop which is very weird and no doubt is a large contributor, but I did not see even one rub and only seen two scrapes. Two years ago in the same area I seen 200+ rubs and probably 40-50 scrapes. Last year was less than half that and then this year was DEAD! Again here, no EHD reported in the area.

Don't know that I added any value other than to confirm it's been the most weird year around me in a long time, and maybe ranks number 1. And I've heard this from several hard core hunters in my area.
 

Bone Collector

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Murfreesboro, TN
That's a bad situation. If you think deer react to human pressure, just think about how they react to dogs running up on them in their beds and chasing them for miles. IMO, nothing can ruin a property faster or worse than loose deer chasing dogs.
I don't know what to do about it. I don't know who owns them. I have had the opportunity to shoot them a couple of times, but can't bring myself to do it. They have collars for leashes, but no tags that I can see. Apparently the collars aren't being used for their intended purpose.....
 

JCDEERMAN

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NASHVILLE, TN
That's a bad situation. If you think deer react to human pressure, just think about how they react to dogs running up on them in their beds and chasing them for miles. IMO, nothing can ruin a property faster or worse than loose deer chasing dogs.
SSS
 

Ski

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Nov 18, 2019
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Coffee County
I don't know what to do about it. I don't know who owns them. I have had the opportunity to shoot them a couple of times, but can't bring myself to do it. They have collars for leashes, but no tags that I can see. Apparently the collars aren't being used for their intended purpose.....

I have no issue with pet dogs. Feral un-kept dogs however get dealt the same treatment as coyotes.
 

Ski

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it certainly hurts my hunting.

Yes it does. Probably in a significant way. You paid a whole lot more for that property than anybody did for those dogs. You care for that property more than anybody does those dogs. Not only do they not care for the dogs, they don't care that the dogs are robbing you from being able to enjoy your property. If the dogs were pets they'd be kept. Nobody who lives in a neighborhood with hunters can be so naive to think their dogs are safe to run free. That to me is not caring for the dogs. I understand I don't have a popular point of view, especially with dog lovers. But I'll protect my interests no matter what anybody else thinks. I go to length making sure my dogs are my own, that they do not burden anybody else. I expect the same from every other dog owner.
 

philsanchez76

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Jul 6, 2019
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Location
Middle TN
I had a very similar experience in Rutherford. On Public I usually see small bucks pestering in late Oct. that didn't happen this year. I don't hunt my land until ML but once I got there I did see small bucks pestering. I generally take 2 days around the second weekend in ML and then the 3 days before Thanksgiving. I was only at work the 16th-18th. I did get some daytime pics of 2.5 year old bucks on the 16th (of course) but other than that Scrapes were nonexistent, never got a picture of a buck older than 2.5 years old, and rubs were not as prevalent. I did see a 2.5 yr old 8 pt on thanksgiving morning. Ideally I would like to take off the 11th-the weekend after TG, but that would be tough with work.

I have owned this 32 acres for 10 years. Its not that big, I run multiple cell cams and it is tough for a deer to get through without being caught on camera eventually. Every year I get multiple pictures of older bucks (mostly at night) and eventually I will get some daytime pics. When I'm hunting I see pestering early on and then actual chasing from Nov. 11- 25th or so. it varies by a day or two each way. Of course we generally get a second pop and I see chasing in Dec. too.

This year I've seen 1 or 2 good chases, no pics of big bucks and so far the area is devoid of deer. I think the dogs running around have something to do with that too. It's been frustrating on many fronts this year.
I hear you on that. very frustrating. I only had one buck over 3.5 on camera on public this year. And he vanished right before the MZ opener when I planned to make a move on him.
 

BSK

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Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,177
Location
Nashville, TN
Well, this thread helps me feel better about my weird season. I hunt 4 different places spread out over 3 counties in eastern middle TN and run 19 cameras starting in July. I don't collect data and journal and such, though when I retire I'd love to do that, but it gives me a lot of insight. I also rarely post on here during deer season because I'm either working or hunting 🤷‍♂️. Anyway, here's the weirdness I've observed.

1) My largest lease of 3,200 acres has members widely reporting deer sightings are way down, and in some cases the worst they've ever seen it, and this is a trophy managed lease (on a minimal scale). Plenty of acorns and over 100 acres of agriculture and surrounded by even more. Rutting activity was only "pretty good" and only for a few days...and it was about a week or so later than usual, and then just shut down. I've seen less than 10 rubs (mostly in one spot) and would have normally seen 100-150 by now. One member did kill a 169" (green score), but then he hunts every single day of November...so there's that. Except for that one, fewer and smaller bucks killed this season. We do have a hog problem which USDA will come in after season and help minimize that issue, but that's been a problem a few years now. All-in-all a disappointment on this lease...unless you're the guy that killed the 169"...lol.

2) I live on 130 acres which I manage for quality deer and turkey habitat. It's not big enough to manage for trophy bucks, so I just target retaining high numbers of wildlife (of which I work closely with the local habitat biologist to do that right things). Plenty of acorns this year and surrounded by great agriculture. In July through mid-September I had a solid number of 2.5-3.5 year old bucks (9 to be exact of which 5 appeared to be 3.5). Also, regularly see does in the vicinity of 30 just based on having seen as many as 22 in my food plot while catching others on camera at the same time across the property, so I've estimated 1:3 or 1:4 buck to doe ratio every year. That should result in a solid rut and countless rubs and scrapes...NOTTA this year! I seriously have not seen one rub or scrape on my property and I've checked all the usual spots...very strange indeed. I run a couple of mock scrapes and have had minimal action on them...and I mean minimal. Over the past few weeks, I've only got a picture of 3 bucks in the 2.5-3.5 age range and one of them moved in here, so only 2 of the original 9, and I have a smorgasbord of food and cover on this property. No hogs here either. No signs of EHD in early season. The doe population seems to be halved as well. Very few shots fired on neighboring properties and I've only heard of one of those original 3.5 year old's being killed. Every other year I'll harbor a 4.5-5.5 on my property but that's not happened in a couple years now. Most weirdness I've seen since buying the property in 2007.

3) I have a small 80 acre lease in another county I've only had 5 years now. I don't manage it at all or maintain any food plots...just let it do it's thing. Plenty of acorns this year and some agriculture nearby. It's been covered up with deer every year and the buck-to-doe ratio is a bit out of whack at what appears to be about 1:5. It's never disappointed with very high levels of rubs and scrapes and rutting activity. My mock scrapes there stay highly active during the rut and off and on outside the rut. Only one of the past 5 years didn't offer up a 4.5-5.5 year old buck; however, hunting pressure around is higher than I would like to see. Well, this year tracked the previous 4 years on everything except the scrapes. I only seen three scrapes and I made two of those. My mock scrape action was way down. They would just walk right through them many times like they weren't there. The number of rubs were on par and the rutting activity was probably the best I've ever seen it albeit later than usual by about a week or more, but lasted a good 1.5 weeks at it's peak. The only TN buck I've taken this year (and I'm almost always tagged out by Thanksgiving) came off this property on December 3, and the days leading up to then showed the highest level of rutting activity. He happened to be my biggest 8pt I've taken in TN at 142" and age guessed at 5.5 based on tooth wear. Trail cam pictures guessed him at 4.5. He literally just showed up out of the blue a week before taking him on December 3. All-in-all, this spot didn't disappoint, but the lack of scraping and reaction to my mock scrapes was way off...and the rut was notably late as everywhere else seemed to be.

4) I'll keep this one short. There's a public property I hunt in another county because it's a bow only hunting area. This was the worst year by far which was echoed by some others I chatted with during the hunt. It was the second year with zero acorn crop which is very weird and no doubt is a large contributor, but I did not see even one rub and only seen two scrapes. Two years ago in the same area I seen 200+ rubs and probably 40-50 scrapes. Last year was less than half that and then this year was DEAD! Again here, no EHD reported in the area.

Don't know that I added any value other than to confirm it's been the most weird year around me in a long time, and maybe ranks number 1. And I've heard this from several hard core hunters in my area.
Very interest stuff 13pt.
 

LenS

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Nov 19, 2008
Messages
190
Location
Montgomery County, TN, USA
Western Montgomery County, poor acorn crop, here's what we observed.....

Scrapes which typically open in October were untouched until the first of November. If there is a rub on our land I have yet to see it. First week of muzzleloader was dead when we usually see a lot of bucks cruising at that time. November 14 the switch flipped and deer went nuts, which is right on time. So, for my place, the early rut was non-existent, but the observable rutting activity was more or less right on time.
 

BSK

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Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,177
Location
Nashville, TN
Western Montgomery County, poor acorn crop, here's what we observed.....

Scrapes which typically open in October were untouched until the first of November. If there is a rub on our land I have yet to see it. First week of muzzleloader was dead when we usually see a lot of bucks cruising at that time. November 14 the switch flipped and deer went nuts, which is right on time. So, for my place, the early rut was non-existent, but the observable rutting activity was more or less right on time.
Interesting observations. Thanks for posting them.
 

DTM

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Joined
Dec 17, 2022
Messages
22
Location
Mid TN
New here, but here's my opinion. Trickle rut with basically zero sign. I have a farm in Humphreys county and have had daylight pictures of decent bucks (2.5+) since November 14. Mature bucks arrived in daylight November 20th and I harvested a 4.5 yo this afternoon that was actively chasing does. This same buck was on camera in daylight on November 20,24,26,29 and December 2,4,6 and hasn't been on camera since (day or night). All activity in hardwoods, very few deer sightings in plots or green fields.
 

BSK

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Mar 11, 1999
Messages
81,177
Location
Nashville, TN
New here, but here's my opinion. Trickle rut with basically zero sign. I have a farm in Humphreys county and have had daylight pictures of decent bucks (2.5+) since November 14. Mature bucks arrived in daylight November 20th and I harvested a 4.5 yo this afternoon that was actively chasing does. This same buck was on camera in daylight on November 20,24,26,29 and December 2,4,6 and hasn't been on camera since (day or night). All activity in hardwoods, very few deer sightings in plots or green fields.
That is REALLY interesting. Thanks for posting.
 

JCDEERMAN

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Jul 19, 2008
Messages
17,599
Location
NASHVILLE, TN
New here, but here's my opinion. Trickle rut with basically zero sign. I have a farm in Humphreys county and have had daylight pictures of decent bucks (2.5+) since November 14. Mature bucks arrived in daylight November 20th and I harvested a 4.5 yo this afternoon that was actively chasing does. This same buck was on camera in daylight on November 20,24,26,29 and December 2,4,6 and hasn't been on camera since (day or night). All activity in hardwoods, very few deer sightings in plots or green fields.
If you don't mind, what is the landscape like on your property and also your surrounding properties? Close to a river? How many acres? Just pondering some theories in my head….
 

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