Yesterday on Priest

[Headhunter]

I'm going to offer my perspective as a former TN resident who now resides in SC so I've seen first hand the comparison between a good wildlife agency/DNR and a bad one.

TWRA is fantastic compared to what I'd call an actual dumpster fire here with SCDNR.

Public land hunters in South Carolina are treated like a 2nd tier of citizens by SCDNR. Historically we could not hunt Sundays, only private land hunters could, and we had to fight tooth and nail to get it this past season by getting a law passed to direct SCDNR to let us hunt Sundays.

All we got was a certain portion of Sundays for deer season and some of small game season.

In addition to that, ALL of our National Forest lands, which make up the majority of our public land, saw waterfowl hunting opportunity gutted. We went from being allowed to hunt ducks Monday through Saturday to only Wednesday and Saturday mornings. That was SCDNR's "F*** YOU" to us for getting to do something they didn't want us doing.

Still we can't hunt turkeys on Sundays, while private land hunters can, and private land hunters get an additional 10 days of turkey season, plus the Sundays.

I know of no other state in the country that treats their public land hunters as poorly as SCDNR does to us.

And does it work? Ha! I could go into more detail about how piss poor the management of public land is here, but this is a fishing thread. Let's put it this way, you don't see the YouTube "turkey tour" types going to SC to hunt our public land, do you? But they go to Tennessee a lot. Shoot I've said elsewhere Catman is a good friend of mine and he even has no interest to come here and hunt our turkeys.

I've spoken to SCDNR on the phone and in person to challenge some of the things they are doing and found them to be so arrogant it makes Trump look humble. They literally brag about their college degrees in wildlife biology while overseeing horrible declines in duck and turkey populations. Not even going to mention quail. SC used to be to quail hunting what SD is to pheasant hunting.

Our fishing is good, but so is Tennessee's. And while TWRA has their faults, they do not screw public land hunters out of opportunity like is done here.

Trust me, Headhunter, you have it good there.

Sorry all I know that was a long post, and a bit of a vent, but you realize when you've been screwed by SCDNR for 5 years how good things used to be. I miss living in Tennessee for many reasons and my opportunity as a user of public land and water is one of them

Thank you for your reply, but the SCDNR sounds about the same as the TWRA.

Duck hunting here has been ruined. The politics is now worse than ever.

The TWRA is bold faced lying about CWD. Getting away with it to.

The fisheries are absolutely being POACHED by the immigrant population and NOTHING is being done about it.

 

[Pilchard]

Does it make you feel better to whine about it while refusing to do the one thing that has any possibility of helping the officers make a difference?

 

[Headhunter]

Does it make you feel better to whine about it while refusing to do the one thing that has any possibility of helping the officers make a difference?

I agree, but I give up. What amazes me is that I am far from alone and the TWRA just plods along. I don't know if you are close to Priest or have time, but just spend some time on Priest. Visit a couple of boat ramps. I hear Hamilton Creek is worse than Hurricane Creek. It is unbelievable what is happening. The corps is not helping either.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

"I saw something I don't like but did nothing to contribute to correcting it"

 

[WTM]

didnt use to be that way, you can probably thank Obama and Biden, TWRA and davison co sheriff used to deport them.

Some Illegal Immigrants Found In Fishing Without License Cases - The Crime Report

For most who fish in Nashville’s lakes and streams, getting caught without a license means a ticket, a small fine and forfeiting the catch. For immigrants nabbed by Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency officers, reports The Tennessean, it can mean a trip to jail and possible deportation to their...

thecrimereport.org

people gonna poach and people gonna bait, probably more now than ever thanks to a poaching family and a couple of lawyers. they duck blind debacle was both the duck hunters and non-duck hunters fault. if they hadnt been breaking the law and selling those blinds it "might" have stayed the way it was. about 5000 of those folks that used to show up at the drawings couldnt spell duck much less hunt them. it was a lottery to most of those folks.

i have no problem with the TWRA. Hoofman caught a couple of poachers that were baiting on our farm and the farm next door. the same dipshits that took him to court 10 years later and a douchebag from cottage grove. they chased down two aholes on four wheelers tearing up the undisturbed TVA land and the fishing dock. they just this year rebuilt that dock with vinyl plank and trim and regraveled the parking lot. (my wife about fell thru it two years ago) rebuilt the ramp and dock at browns creek. repaved the parking lot at Eva and expanded it. i could go on but it wouldnt matter.

elections have consequences as do peoples actions, as well as inactions.

 

[kaizen leader]

So, some final perspective from someone that spent most of his adult life around TWRA, and who has been hunting and fishing going on 70 years right now:

As many of you have observed, I don't like some of the things TWRA has done in recent years. The duck blind debacle still sticks in my craw. Allowing our turkey population to go down the toilet in a lot of areas while it was being "studied" will forever be a beef of mine.

But, to call it a dumpster fire is about as dumb a thing as I have ever seen.

When I started working in 1977, we were killing less than 25,000 deer in the whole state. I think I saw where our recent kill was well over 150,000.

Our turkey kill in '77 was right around 100 birds a year. Yes, that is not a typo. We have been in the 40,000 bird range for a long time.

Fishing continues to be pretty remarkable. Even right adjacent to a MAJOR metropolitan area with millions of residents, we still have a fishery that lets certain folks brag on a continual basis on the vast amount of fish they are catching.

Guess what, none of that happens without a lot of EXTREMELY dedicated employees throughout all areas of TWRA. Perfect? Absolutely not! Dumpster fire? About as dumb as the person saying it.

I think what we are seeing is a culture here in the US that is giving up. Laws aren't enforced, violators are let go, violations are overlooked, and frustration is at a high point. It is the political climate. Now is the time to support the right people and vote. That's all we can do. Bazaaro world.

 

[Headhunter]

"I saw something I don't like but did nothing to contribute to correcting it"

Wrong. Myself (and many others that I know) have tried and tried and tried for years and either gave up a while ago or are finally are giving up.

When I actually gave up is when I my life was threatened by an illegal immigrant. The illegal immigrant was running the jet ski wide open through
the no wake zone in Hurricane Creek. He came close to running over a teenager on a float. I have video of him running through the no wake zone, in front of boat ramp. I let him know that it was a no wake zone, along with several others. When I went to leave, my boat tied to floating dock, he walked out on dock and was looking in my boat. I backed trailer in and when I went to get in boat, he started yelling at me. I told him the whole cove was no wake, he got even more irritated. He spoke broken english, could barely understand him. He ran off the dock, grabbed one of the softball size rocks and came back ready to throw or hit me with the rock, yelling he was going to kill me. Yes I had my handgun. Never showed it, never threatened him, just told him he did not want to throw the rock. He finally left. Last thing I would ever do is shoot someone and I do not want to be in that situation again. That is when I decided it is not worth it. Evidently the TWRA doesn't care, the corps either, the lake is unbelievable. From the "fish poaching" to the dangerous situations the immigrant population poses all the time, and NOTHING is done, NOTHING!

Since there are not near enough officers, I think the TWRA should just forget about private land and focus on public land and waterways.

But unless someone affects what I am doing up close and personal, I am not saying anything.

 

[Mcboom]

Wrong. Myself (and many others that I know) have tried and tried and tried for years and either gave up a while ago or are finally are giving up.

When I actually gave up is when I my life was threatened by an illegal immigrant. The illegal immigrant was running the jet ski wide open through
the no wake zone in Hurricane Creek. He came close to running over a teenager on a float. I have video of him running through the no wake zone, in front of boat ramp. I let him know that it was a no wake zone, along with several others. When I went to leave, my boat tied to floating dock, he walked out on dock and was looking in my boat. I backed trailer in and when I went to get in boat, he started yelling at me. I told him the whole cove was no wake, he got even more irritated. He spoke broken english, could barely understand him. He ran off the dock, grabbed one of the softball size rocks and came back ready to throw or hit me with the rock, yelling he was going to kill me. Yes I had my handgun. Never showed it, never threatened him, just told him he did not want to throw the rock. He finally left. Last thing I would ever do is shoot someone and I do not want to be in that situation again. That is when I decided it is not worth it. Evidently the TWRA doesn't care, the corps either, the lake is unbelievable. From the "fish poaching" to the dangerous situations the immigrant population poses all the time, and NOTHING is done, NOTHING!

Since there are not near enough officers, I think the TWRA should just forget about private land and focus on public land and waterways.

But unless someone affects what I am doing up close and personal, I am not saying anything.

I'd find another lake to fish. This is why I like winter fishing so much better. Lots of days with little to no boats traffic and no jet ski or wake boats.

 

[Madbowh]

If someone that was new to the state and hadn't hunted or fished very long, it might be an understandable rant. But, for someone like you who has been doing it for a long time and even knows some officers, it shows an ASTOUNDING lack of perspective!

Let's take a second and look at some realities. Not for you, because it is obvious that you don't and will never understand. But, I'm sure there are some other that have been reading this and wondering how such stuff can happen.

To start some perspective, let's look at the manpower TWRA might have to deal with those travesties. Take Davidson Co as an example. For Davidson Co, TWRA has two Wildlife Officers to cover the entire county 24/7, 365 days a year. To cover the same square miles, the Metro Police Dept has 1658 commissioned officers. My math isn't a strongpoint, but, it would be somewhere around an 800 to one ratio. And, they are staffed with shifts every day of the year around the clock.

Yet, even with that 800 to one ratio, I doubt that there is a time I drive on a Davidson Co road without seeing multiple traffic violations. Cars are being broken into every night. Unfortunately, on a lot of those 365 days, multiple people are being shot and killed? How can that be with that many people to cover the same area the two wildlife officers are trying to cover? You certainly won't get me to call those brave men and women a dumpster fire.

You can't compare police offices to GW's in any state for many reasons. And so what he didn't report, I wouldn't either twra is a absolute joke unless someone has bait out or blatantly/ ignorantly poaching they're not coming and even then they might not show up.

there used to be a time where doing the right thing worked, it just almost doesn't anymore. With that I am not saying in anyway don't follow the rules, but why take time out of my day to try when we know nothing will get done(most of the time). This was headhunter choice just like you have a choice. It is not a crime to not turn someone in for things like this.

Looks like you don't like to pick and choose your battles you just want battles at every comment......

To each the their own

 

[scn]

You can't compare police offices to GW's in any state for many reasons. And so what he didn't report, I wouldn't either twra is a absolute joke unless someone has bait out or blatantly/ ignorantly poaching they're not coming and even then they might not show up.

there used to be a time where doing the right thing worked, it just almost doesn't anymore. With that I am not saying in anyway don't follow the rules, but why take time out of my day to try when we know nothing will get done(most of the time). This was headhunter choice just like you have a choice. It is not a crime to not turn someone in for things like this.

Looks like you don't like to pick and choose your battles you just want battles at every comment......

To each the their own

Definitely not a crime to not turn it in. Sort of Faceplant drama deal to come on here and whine about it.

 

[Madbowh]

I'm going to offer my perspective as a former TN resident who now resides in SC so I've seen first hand the comparison between a good wildlife agency/DNR and a bad one.

TWRA is fantastic compared to what I'd call an actual dumpster fire here with SCDNR.

Public land hunters in South Carolina are treated like a 2nd tier of citizens by SCDNR. Historically we could not hunt Sundays, only private land hunters could, and we had to fight tooth and nail to get it this past season by getting a law passed to direct SCDNR to let us hunt Sundays.

All we got was a certain portion of Sundays for deer season and some of small game season.

In addition to that, ALL of our National Forest lands, which make up the majority of our public land, saw waterfowl hunting opportunity gutted. We went from being allowed to hunt ducks Monday through Saturday to only Wednesday and Saturday mornings. That was SCDNR's "F*** YOU" to us for getting to do something they didn't want us doing.

Still we can't hunt turkeys on Sundays, while private land hunters can, and private land hunters get an additional 10 days of turkey season, plus the Sundays.

I know of no other state in the country that treats their public land hunters as poorly as SCDNR does to us.

And does it work? Ha! I could go into more detail about how piss poor the management of public land is here, but this is a fishing thread. Let's put it this way, you don't see the YouTube "turkey tour" types going to SC to hunt our public land, do you? But they go to Tennessee a lot. Shoot I've said elsewhere Catman is a good friend of mine and he even has no interest to come here and hunt our turkeys.

I've spoken to SCDNR on the phone and in person to challenge some of the things they are doing and found them to be so arrogant it makes Trump look humble. They literally brag about their college degrees in wildlife biology while overseeing horrible declines in duck and turkey populations. Not even going to mention quail. SC used to be to quail hunting what SD is to pheasant hunting.

Our fishing is good, but so is Tennessee's. And while TWRA has their faults, they do not screw public land hunters out of opportunity like is done here.

Trust me, Headhunter, you have it good there.

Sorry all I know that was a long post, and a bit of a vent, but you realize when you've been screwed by SCDNR for 5 years how good things used to be. I miss living in Tennessee for many reasons and my opportunity as a user of public land and water is one of them.

Your clearly out of touch with TN GW. Either me or someone I've watched have interactions have been treated like 2nd class citizens. Our state troopers THP give better respect to our tn residents than a gw. You can't even talk to the average game warden, you never get straight responses, if you get a ticket, warning, citation they know those proclamation numbers by heart but can't give a direct answer to regs. One told me in Catoosa we didn't realize the good effects a , his words "safari setting" had on our ecosystem. I said well what are they, his response....Oh I don't know what the good effects are. These are the way every conversation goes I've had or seen accept for one gw in Scott County

 

[MidTennFisher]

Your clearly out of touch with TN GW. Either me or someone I've watched have interactions have been treated like 2nd class citizens. Our state troopers THP give better respect to our tn residents than a gw. You can't even talk to the average game warden, you never get straight responses, if you get a ticket, warning, citation they know those proclamation numbers by heart but can't give a direct answer to regs. One told me in Catoosa we didn't realize the good effects a , his words "safari setting" had on our ecosystem. I said well what are they, his response....Oh I don't know what the good effects are. These are the way every conversation goes I've had or seen accept for one gw in Scott County

Well I haven't lived in TN for 8 years but I always had good interactions with the GWs there when I did. Sucks to hear that has gone downhill. The GWs here are great as well, it's the upper positions at SCDNR that I despise.

At the very least, TWRA doesn't pull this garbage I deal with here of giving private land hunters a ridiculous amount of hunting privilege that public land hunters don't get.

And that's the way it should be. Here every single hunting season is significantly reduced for public land hunters.

I will say that I've dealt with the same thing Headhunter has, though. Two separate occasions I can recall when I called TWRA to report immigrants throwing cast nets and nobody showed up.

People have told me of seeing immigrants throwing cast nets on our coast here and filling the cooler with undersized fish that are also illegal to take via cast net in the first place. They claimed they call SCDNR and nobody shows up.

It's a lot more challenging to locate, communicate with, and deal with following up on a citation with immigrants, who are possibly illegals, than it is someone like me. But that's not an excuse to avoid it. They'd ticket me in a heartbeat so I put 100% of the blame on a GW from any state avoiding a challenge that comes with the job they signed up for.

 

[Headhunter]

Midtennfisher, same here in Tennessee, the upper management at TWRA is crock. Like I have said, a dumpster fire and dumpster is melting.

Also, yes the TWRA gives private landowners many privileges that are not granted to non landowners. Just look at the hunting guide.

I for sure agree, they will write someone like us a ticket and bypass any immigrant. Not sure that is all the game wardens fault, they are either being told not to or the immigrants just disappear or they have a fake ID or no ID.

 

[Headhunter]

Saw an Asian pulling his boat out today. Nice rig, 250 Yamaha, new looking rig. Happy for him to have such a nice rig.

What sucked is I saw him trolling. Then at the boat ramp. I don't know how he controls it, but he had 8 or 9 rods in holders, they were all out when he was trolling, and they all had alabama rigs with 3 baits per rig. I know it isn't illegal or I don't know if it is, but it should be illegal to fish with that many rods and all alabama rigs.

 

[MidTennFisher]

Midtennfisher, same here in Tennessee, the upper management at TWRA is crock. Like I have said, a dumpster fire and dumpster is melting.

Also, yes the TWRA gives private landowners many privileges that are not granted to non landowners. Just look at the hunting guide.

I for sure agree, they will write someone like us a ticket and bypass any immigrant. Not sure that is all the game wardens fault, they are either being told not to or the immigrants just disappear or they have a fake ID or no ID.

Of course the latter is true. In many cases they have no ID, they say their name is Jose Cuervo, and get a citation written to that name. Of course, Mr. Cuervo never pays that ticket or shows up in court because he's busy continuing to throw cast nets and fill his cooler with 8" Crappie.

Have you gotten in touch with any of the upper positions at TWRA to tell them you report illegal cast netting and nobody comes to deal with it? If so, what do they say is the reason?

 

[Lost Lake]

Of course the latter is true. In many cases they have no ID, they say their name is Jose Cuervo, and get a citation written to that name. Of course, Mr. Cuervo never pays that ticket or shows up in court because he's busy continuing to throw cast nets and fill his cooler with 8" Crappie.

Have you gotten in touch with any of the upper positions at TWRA to tell them you report illegal cast netting and nobody comes to deal with it? If so, what do they say is the reason?

My question, and it's really the crux of the matter here, is what can TWRA ultimately get done with "Jose" in the end? They can write tickets til their butt crack grows together, and not a damned thing will be done to those people. The same people who use their race and sympathies to get away with it…..with IMPUNITY. They're LAUGHING their butts off at us.

I don't think for one minute that TWRA officers haven't driven by a gang of illegals casting nets and just threw up their hands, because just like Headhunter, they've given up. They've written ticket after ticket to an untraceable, protected class of people who come here and rape our resources.

Everybody is guilty of throwing up their hands and giving up here. We see it every damned day and have become desensitized to this crap. The ultimate authorities won't do squat.

 

[RUGER]

My question is, and it's really the crux of the matter here, is what can TWRA ultimately get done with "Jose" in the end? They can write tickets til their butt crack grows together, and not a damned thing will be done to those people. The same people who use their race and sympathies to get away with it…..with IMPUNITY. They're LAUGHING their butts off at us.

I don't think for one minute that TWRA officers haven't driven by a gang of illegals casting nets and just threw up their hands, because just like Headhunter, they've given up. They've written ticket after ticket to untraceable people who are a protected class of people who come here and rape our resources.

Everybody is guilty of throwing up their hands and giving up here. We see it every damned day and have become desensitized to this crap. The ultimate authorities won't do crap.

Yep. A waste of time to write a ticket. Zero penalty and even less of an affect on them.

 

[MidTennFisher]

My question is, and it's really the crux of the matter here, is what can TWRA ultimately get done with "Jose" in the end? They can write tickets til their butt crack grows together, and not a damned thing will be done to those people. The same people who use their race and sympathies to get away with it…..with IMPUNITY. They're LAUGHING their butts off at us.

I don't think for one minute that TWRA officers haven't driven by a gang of illegals casting nets and just threw up their hands, because just like Headhunter, they've given up. They've written ticket after ticket to untraceable people who are a protected class of people who come here and rape our resources.

Everybody is guilty of throwing up their hands and giving up here. We see it every damned day and have become desensitized to this crap. The ultimate authorities won't do squat.

In a perfect world, it would be an automatic deportation. But then again, they'd just come right back because why not?

I've never really dug into the limitation that state wildlife LEOs have in regards to that. If they find a group of immigrants cast netting, let's just assume the GW speaks Spanish, and via the conversation he realizes they're all illegal, can he not arrest them right then and there and begin the process of deportation?

 

[Lost Lake]

In a perfect world, it would be an automatic deportation. But then again, they'd just come right back because why not?

I've never really dug into the limitation that state wildlife LEOs have in regards to that. If they find a group of immigrants cast netting, let's just assume the GW speaks Spanish, and via the conversation he realizes they're all illegal, can he not arrest them right then and there and begin the process of deportation?

They ultimately get turned loose and disappear. ICE won't do a dang thing.

 

[MidTennFisher]

They ultimately get turned loose and disappear. ICE won't do a dang thing.

That's a shame. When I still lived in TN it was very well known that the immigrant populations were abusing the fish laws. Undersized fish, over the limit fish, illegal methods to catch them like cast nets. And surely that problem has gone nowhere but downhill since as the population of them grows.

Then I read about all these stupid DEI initiatives to get them into hunting. Lord knows the absolute last thing we need is Mexicans going around doing things like shooting turkeys with a .22 and killing 9 bucks each Fall.