Yesterday on Priest

[Headhunter]

Fished a few afternoons on Priest recently, bass catching has been incredible. Shallow and some nice fish. Haven't crappie fished a lot but caught a few.

Yesterday saw 6 hispanics walking the bank. All had cast nets and they were keeping everything they caught. They were actually waking down a bank that has been a great shallow spot for crappie for me for about 35 years. I watched them keep crappie and bass. No, I did not report to anyone, I have more times than I can count and the TWRA does nothing. It is sad though to watch them raping the fisheries and absolutely nothing is done.

 

[scn]

If you didn't report it, it is on you and not TWRA.

To me, it is sort of like voting for a President. If you don't vote, to me, you lose the right to complain.

 

[Headhunter]

If you didn't report it, it is on you and not TWRA.

To me, it is sort of like voting for a President. If you don't vote, to me, you lose the right to complain.

SCN, NOTHING ON ME! Myself (and many others who fish Priest and below the Priest dam and Old Hickory dam have been reporting, sending pics and videos), FOR YEARS NOW! Nothing, not one time has any of it been investigated. About done with the TWRA.

I fully support the game wardens, not enough of them, no where near enough and they are not paid enough, no where close to what they should be paid.

But instead of worrying about whether or not they need a search warrant for private land issues, how about policing the public land and waterways? They could stay busy just policing Priest. On top of the fish being caught illegally, size limits ignored, creel limits ignored, the immigrant population as a whole has NO CLUE about boating and water safety. Just go to a boat ramp, much less actually get out on the lake and it is blatant the laws that are broken and the hazardous environment they create. I have wore the phone out with the TWRA and the corps begging for help at the boat ramps. Again, NOTHING, not anything is being done. I would over half the watercraft, boats, ski boats, jet skis, etc. the immigrant population uses have no registration at all or it is way out of date.

Maybe worst one I saw, a boat load of Asian people, and I mean a boat load in an aluminum boat at the Hurricane creek boat ramp.
Busy weekend day in the summertime, kids and toddlers in laps, boat overloaded for sure, not a life jacket in sight. They mumbled "no english". I guess nothing needed to be done, I never heard anything about them drowning, but when the TWRA answered that day, they were to busy to check them. Very soon, there are multiple violations broken every single day on Priest. Like I said, no where near enough officers. The ones that TWRA has are underpaid.

Those guys yesterday were in broad daylight with cast nets and buckets. Anything that came out of the water in the net went into a bucket. With that said Priest is still produces fish like crazy, but for how long when there are people with cast nets during pre spawn, spawning time, keeping everything.

 

[DaveTN]

What do they have to worry about? A citation?

 

[scn]

All on you, Sam when you don't report it.

Amazing how you see this stuff more than all of the rest of this site put together……

 

[Setterman]

Looks like you didn't report it, so you're just as guilty as them.

 

[Headhunter]

All on you, Sam when you don't report it.

Amazing how you see this stuff more than all of the rest of this site put together……

Really? You have to be joking. The TWRA could write citations most everyday if they wanted to. Post on social media, one from yesterday, 2 immigrants with 8 hybirds, most did not look 15" and several smaller white bass that a few of them looked like hybrids. Steve, you must have your eyes closed. And I am far from alone. I used to take pics and video all I saw. Not anymore, waste of time an effort.

Since you have no clue I won't worry about it. Just go to the lake and watch. I don't get it, I see something almost everytime I am on Priest, laws being broken, the crazy thing is, many of those laws are boating laws and are dangerous and the game wardens won't do anything about it. I will be you a years pay, come summertime, they could sit at the Hurricane Creek boat ramp every weekend and most weekdays and write tickets. Heck many boat ramps they. Even if they don't write tickets, they could try to educate. I know there are American citizens who don't care and break laws, but the immigrant population is beyond belief. It is sad that you think I don't see all I say. I have posted pics and videos.

I bet if you ask Jim, he is seeing a ton of crap to. I know he has told me he has.

here are a couple examples.

Girl on front end of boat. I see this all the time on the lake. My gps showed speed was 30 mph. Like I said I am done trying to report.

Being double flipped off because I told these 2 they needed life jackets. They were racing the jet ski around the 4 corners boat dock and did so several days. Don't believe me, ask the boat owners at 4 corners, I can give you phone numbers. Nothing was ever done. Yes, the TWRA, game wardens, and the corps were called, multiple times. About the 4th day they were running wide open around the boat docks, I was called and that is the day the guy flipped me off. I mentioned to him they needed life jackets. I asked if they knew what vehicle they came to the lake in, the boat dock owners said you won't miss it. The trailer in the trunk is how they got to the lake. Actually there a was a picture on facebook the same day of them at the gas station.
I called LaVergne police, no way pulling the jet ski that way is safe. I don't know what they did, but the police did show up and told them they had to do something different.

 

[Headhunter]

Looks like you didn't report it, so you're just as guilty as them.

Normally I would agree with and say the same thing. I have been calling, sending pics and videos, not a few time, not for one year, not for 2 years, but for many years and for the most part nothing is ever done.

Like I said the game wardens, there are not enough of them, they are overworked and underpaid. That is for sure a problem.

 

[Headhunter]

All on you, Sam when you don't report it.

Amazing how you see this stuff more than all of the rest of this site put together……

And Steve, can't believe you say that. The one time I did get the game wardens to show up, one of the hispanics had already left. I was watching them catch bass, not legal size, not even close, and filling their fish baskets. I called, Matt was able to get there, Hurricane creek, and yep, they were keeping everything they caught and not legal. Under the size limit and over the creel limit. Hybrids also.

Like you think though, I don't see anything.

I watched Mexicans sit off a point near Cooks, they were mexican, I talked to them, small hybrids were stacked on a spot, you could catch them as fast as you could throw. The mexicans would catch a bunch, run to seven points and come back. I followed them to seven points, they were giving all the fish to Asians. They did this for 5 mornings in a row, they would make 5 or 6 trips to the Asians each morning. No telling how many fish they kept, none legal length. I took pics and videoed and called and called and called. NOTHING!

Like I have said and keep saying, the TWRA is a dumpster fire and the dumpster is melting and I FAR from alone in my thinking. I can understand poachers and lawbreakers hating the TWRA, but when a huge amount of people who believe in following game laws don't support the TWRA, there is a problem and I almost know of no one who supports the TWRA anymore.

 

[74MOPAR]

Well that turned quickly. But like you said what good would it do? Likely none. Even if they get a citation they will probably give a false name. Also, who wants to be the one to call and report someone ?

P.s. Maybe if you tell them they are baiting you will get a quicker response

 

[woodsman04]

It's all a wash. At least they catching and eating the carp, buffalo, and nasty gizzard shad.

Gotta take the good with the bad

 

[scn]

And Steve, can't believe you say that. The one time I did get the game wardens to show up, one of the hispanics had already left. I was watching them catch bass, not legal size, not even close, and filling their fish baskets. I called, Matt was able to get there, Hurricane creek, and yep, they were keeping everything they caught and not legal. Under the size limit and over the creel limit. Hybrids also.

Like you think though, I don't see anything.

I watched Mexicans sit off a point near Cooks, they were mexican, I talked to them, small hybrids were stacked on a spot, you could catch them as fast as you could throw. The mexicans would catch a bunch, run to seven points and come back. I followed them to seven points, they were giving all the fish to Asians. They did this for 5 mornings in a row, they would make 5 or 6 trips to the Asians each morning. No telling how many fish they kept, none legal length. I took pics and videoed and called and called and called. NOTHING!

Like I have said and keep saying, the TWRA is a dumpster fire and the dumpster is melting and I FAR from alone in my thinking. I can understand poachers and lawbreakers hating the TWRA, but when a huge amount of people who believe in following game laws don't support the TWRA, there is a problem and I almost know of no one who supports the TWRA anymore.

If someone that was new to the state and hadn't hunted or fished very long, it might be an understandable rant. But, for someone like you who has been doing it for a long time and even knows some officers, it shows an ASTOUNDING lack of perspective!

Let's take a second and look at some realities. Not for you, because it is obvious that you don't and will never understand. But, I'm sure there are some other that have been reading this and wondering how such stuff can happen.

To start some perspective, let's look at the manpower TWRA might have to deal with those travesties. Take Davidson Co as an example. For Davidson Co, TWRA has two Wildlife Officers to cover the entire county 24/7, 365 days a year. To cover the same square miles, the Metro Police Dept has 1658 commissioned officers. My math isn't a strongpoint, but, it would be somewhere around an 800 to one ratio. And, they are staffed with shifts every day of the year around the clock.

Yet, even with that 800 to one ratio, I doubt that there is a time I drive on a Davidson Co road without seeing multiple traffic violations. Cars are being broken into every night. Unfortunately, on a lot of those 365 days, multiple people are being shot and killed? How can that be with that many people to cover the same area the two wildlife officers are trying to cover? You certainly won't get me to call those brave men and women a dumpster fire.

 

[killingtime 41]

They are famous for cast nets and keeping everything no matter the size. Seen it several times. Don't worry they are just here to become Americans. Guarantee you none were legal. Last few months I've seen more and more moving in here. And they speak 0 English. Not even enough to understand what the cashier was saying at dollar general.

 

[scn]

Now lets look at the actual hours those two wildlife officers are able to work:
The standard work week for state employees is 37.5 hrs/week. That goes back decades ago to when a Governor wanted the political hay of giving state employees a "raise" during an election year but the state was too broke to fund it. So, he cut the work week down to "increase" their hourly rate without any additional funds.

TWRA employees do not get any overtime pay if they go over that 37.5 amount in a given week. They receive compensatory time off instead. Comp time is capped at a maximum amount of 480 hrs. If you go over 480, you are supposed to be paid overtime. TWRA employees have been told that they would be paid if that happened, but, that they would also be disciplined for letting it happen.

Any officer with much get up and go reaches that 480 cap within the first year or so of employment. 16-18 hour days are pretty common during peak enforcement times. So, the hours add up. Then, most officers tend to lie on their reports by claiming less hours than they are actually working if they care about their job like most of our guys and gals. Supervisors tend to look the other way to a degree, but, with HR implications, it is a touchy thing. I well remember being called into the office while an officer up in ETN and getting read the riot act. It seems that with the number of miles I drove that time period (needed to be accurate for several reasons) calculated against the number of hours I reported working, that I buzzed around my county doing right at 100 mph. In one breath I was told not to let that happen again. But, in the same conversation I was told to pack up and head a couple of counties down for some 20 hr days. It was pretty rare when the hours I was actually out there working were even close to the few hours I claimed.

 

[scn]

So, continuing on.

In Middle TN where you are seeing all of these terrible violations, the officers are budgeted a pretty high percentage of their annual budget from the Boating Fund. That money is separate from the Wildlife Fund, and comes from boat registrations, ets. Boating enforcement is a high priority from Memorial Day until at least Labor Day. By the time the officers get through a normal weekend, they have often burned 18-20 hrs. Then, there are hours filing paperwork at the courthouse, and then, sitting through court for the cases. The reality is that it doesn't leave much of that 37.5 work week to do much prowling around for the type of cases you are whining about. Thus, comp time accumulates a bunch during the boating season.

Then, from boating season they go directly into hunting season. With the private land issues some of that obviously has changed, but, they are still out there a bunch. Waterfowl season is worked in our MidTN counties and accounts for long days as well.

The reality is that even if they started under the comp time max, they are over it or pushing it by the end of duck season.
So, most are given orders to take time off and get their comp time more manageable. They try not to schedule both officers off at the same time, but, there are just so many weeks on the calendar to get the time off. Thus, there are gaps in time on when officers are out there patrolling or able to respond to a call.

 

[scn]

So, where does that leave us and what can be done? The REALITY is that it is what it is. It isn't going to get better. TWRA will never have the manpower to do the job like it needs to be done. We all are very aware that any time a license increase is discussed that might result in a FEW more officers that a large percentage of folks come unglued. So, the agency will continue to cobble along with an unhealthy percentage of their officers not being truthful (under reporting) on their hourly reports in order to try to do the job.

Thus, with the chances ranging between slim and none of an officer immediately responding to a violation call, why do it? The main reason is that calls absolutely result in officers giving enforcement attention to issues and areas that are being called on. You may not personally observe it, but, I can attest that it does help. I know for a fact that people biatching about the Laotions below Old Hickory Dam resulted in multiple enforcement details where numerous citations were issued. It didn't happen the day of the initial call, but, it happened. If you don't call, there is virtually zero way for the officer to know about the illegal activity unless they happen to stumble upon it. That is pretty unlikely with two enforcement sets of eyes and limited hours to use them.

 

[scn]

So, some final perspective from someone that spent most of his adult life around TWRA, and who has been hunting and fishing going on 70 years right now:

As many of you have observed, I don't like some of the things TWRA has done in recent years. The duck blind debacle still sticks in my craw. Allowing our turkey population to go down the toilet in a lot of areas while it was being "studied" will forever be a beef of mine.

But, to call it a dumpster fire is about as dumb a thing as I have ever seen.

When I started working in 1977, we were killing less than 25,000 deer in the whole state. I think I saw where our recent kill was well over 150,000.

Our turkey kill in '77 was right around 100 birds a year. Yes, that is not a typo. We have been in the 40,000 bird range for a long time.

Fishing continues to be pretty remarkable. Even right adjacent to a MAJOR metropolitan area with millions of residents, we still have a fishery that lets certain folks brag on a continual basis on the vast amount of fish they are catching.

Guess what, none of that happens without a lot of EXTREMELY dedicated employees throughout all areas of TWRA. Perfect? Absolutely not! Dumpster fire? About as dumb as the person saying it.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Really? You have to be joking. The TWRA could write citations most everyday if they wanted to. Post on social media, one from yesterday, 2 immigrants with 8 hybirds, most did not look 15" and several smaller white bass that a few of them looked like hybrids. Steve, you must have your eyes closed. And I am far from alone. I used to take pics and video all I saw. Not anymore, waste of time an effort.

Since you have no clue I won't worry about it. Just go to the lake and watch. I don't get it, I see something almost everytime I am on Priest, laws being broken, the crazy thing is, many of those laws are boating laws and are dangerous and the game wardens won't do anything about it. I will be you a years pay, come summertime, they could sit at the Hurricane Creek boat ramp every weekend and most weekdays and write tickets. Heck many boat ramps they. Even if they don't write tickets, they could try to educate. I know there are American citizens who don't care and break laws, but the immigrant population is beyond belief. It is sad that you think I don't see all I say. I have posted pics and videos.

I bet if you ask Jim, he is seeing a ton of crap to. I know he has told me he has.

here are a couple examples.

Girl on front end of boat. I see this all the time on the lake. My gps showed speed was 30 mph. Like I said I am done trying to report.

Being double flipped off because I told these 2 they needed life jackets. They were racing the jet ski around the 4 corners boat dock and did so several days. Don't believe me, ask the boat owners at 4 corners, I can give you phone numbers. Nothing was ever done. Yes, the TWRA, game wardens, and the corps were called, multiple times. About the 4th day they were running wide open around the boat docks, I was called and that is the day the guy flipped me off. I mentioned to him they needed life jackets. I asked if they knew what vehicle they came to the lake in, the boat dock owners said you won't miss it. The trailer in the trunk is how they got to the lake. Actually there a was a picture on facebook the same day of them at the gas station.
I called LaVergne police, no way pulling the jet ski that way is safe. I don't know what they did, but the police did show up and told them they had to do something different.

I saw that on facebook or you posted about it on here . I remember the story either way!!

 

[Headhunter]

So, some final perspective from someone that spent most of his adult life around TWRA, and who has been hunting and fishing going on 70 years right now:

As many of you have observed, I don't like some of the things TWRA has done in recent years. The duck blind debacle still sticks in my craw. Allowing our turkey population to go down the toilet in a lot of areas while it was being "studied" will forever be a beef of mine.

But, to call it a dumpster fire is about as dumb a thing as I have ever seen.

When I started working in 1977, we were killing less than 25,000 deer in the whole state. I think I saw where our recent kill was well over 150,000.

Our turkey kill in '77 was right around 100 birds a year. Yes, that is not a typo. We have been in the 40,000 bird range for a long time.

Fishing continues to be pretty remarkable. Even right adjacent to a MAJOR metropolitan area with millions of residents, we still have a fishery that lets certain folks brag on a continual basis on the vast amount of fish they are catching.

Guess what, none of that happens without a lot of EXTREMELY dedicated employees throughout all areas of TWRA. Perfect? Absolutely not! Dumpster fire? About as dumb as the person saying it.

Pretty much all you said was a waste of time. I have said it many times, the game wardens are understaffed and under paid. There are not enough game wardens and for sure they don't get enough money.

But then you tell me it is on me if I don't report what I see.

It is pretty sad of an agency when they are worried about accessing private land (yes the TWRA is, why would they appeal if they weren't) and with as few officers as they have, why even worry about private land, take care of the public land, especially when it is a KNOWN FACT that a resource, the FISHERIES are being "RAPED", and have been for several years, most every single day.

And when the hunting and fishing community as a whole has lost respect for the TWRA.

I have not met one person in the past couple years that I have asked, and you know I am a "quiet" person, who has any respect for the TWRA or thinks they are value to the hunter and fisherman anymore. The immigrant population is starting to hunt (they are a PROBLEM in other states on the hunting side) and it is just a matter of time before they are a problem concerning hunting here.

I respect and support the game wardens, buy their lunch if I see them eating somewhere, etc. But to see the fisheries flat out being destroyed, and most every single time I am on the water, is maddening and after calling and basically begging for help, but not even an attempt is made, for years, nope, not calling anymore and I know you think I am a nut and I am the only person who feels like I do. If you do, you are wrong.

Actually I know of several people who no longer buy a license to fish or hunt, because the immigrant population doesn't, and they watch the officers check everyone except those who look like immigrants. Several haven't bought a license in a few years.

Yes, the TWRA has destroyed its credibility with a ton of fishermen and hunters, from the CWD lies, to the duck blind debacle, to watching the immigrant population destroy the state's fisheries, etc. the TWRA is losing respect everyday.

 

[MidTennFisher]

So, some final perspective from someone that spent most of his adult life around TWRA, and who has been hunting and fishing going on 70 years right now:

As many of you have observed, I don't like some of the things TWRA has done in recent years. The duck blind debacle still sticks in my craw. Allowing our turkey population to go down the toilet in a lot of areas while it was being "studied" will forever be a beef of mine.

But, to call it a dumpster fire is about as dumb a thing as I have ever seen.

When I started working in 1977, we were killing less than 25,000 deer in the whole state. I think I saw where our recent kill was well over 150,000.

Our turkey kill in '77 was right around 100 birds a year. Yes, that is not a typo. We have been in the 40,000 bird range for a long time.

Fishing continues to be pretty remarkable. Even right adjacent to a MAJOR metropolitan area with millions of residents, we still have a fishery that lets certain folks brag on a continual basis on the vast amount of fish they are catching.

Guess what, none of that happens without a lot of EXTREMELY dedicated employees throughout all areas of TWRA. Perfect? Absolutely not! Dumpster fire? About as dumb as the person saying it.

I'm going to offer my perspective as a former TN resident who now resides in SC so I've seen first hand the comparison between a good wildlife agency/DNR and a bad one.

TWRA is fantastic compared to what I'd call an actual dumpster fire here with SCDNR.

Public land hunters in South Carolina are treated like a 2nd tier of citizens by SCDNR. Historically we could not hunt Sundays, only private land hunters could, and we had to fight tooth and nail to get it this past season by getting a law passed to direct SCDNR to let us hunt Sundays.

All we got was a certain portion of Sundays for deer season and some of small game season.

In addition to that, ALL of our National Forest lands, which make up the majority of our public land, saw waterfowl hunting opportunity gutted. We went from being allowed to hunt ducks Monday through Saturday to only Wednesday and Saturday mornings. That was SCDNR's "F*** YOU" to us for getting to do something they didn't want us doing.

Still we can't hunt turkeys on Sundays, while private land hunters can, and private land hunters get an additional 10 days of turkey season, plus the Sundays.

I know of no other state in the country that treats their public land hunters as poorly as SCDNR does to us.

And does it work? Ha! I could go into more detail about how piss poor the management of public land is here, but this is a fishing thread. Let's put it this way, you don't see the YouTube "turkey tour" types going to SC to hunt our public land, do you? But they go to Tennessee a lot. Shoot I've said elsewhere Catman is a good friend of mine and he even has no interest to come here and hunt our turkeys.

I've spoken to SCDNR on the phone and in person to challenge some of the things they are doing and found them to be so arrogant it makes Trump look humble. They literally brag about their college degrees in wildlife biology while overseeing horrible declines in duck and turkey populations. Not even going to mention quail. SC used to be to quail hunting what SD is to pheasant hunting.

Our fishing is good, but so is Tennessee's. And while TWRA has their faults, they do not screw public land hunters out of opportunity like is done here.

Trust me, Headhunter, you have it good there.

Sorry all I know that was a long post, and a bit of a vent, but you realize when you've been screwed by SCDNR for 5 years how good things used to be. I miss living in Tennessee for many reasons and my opportunity as a user of public land and water is one of them.