Upcoming Turkey Season Recommendations

[UpperTully]

Per today's Commission meeting, TWRA Biologist Joy Sweeney gave her presentation on turkey season setting. According to her presentation, our population is stable and gave no recommendations for changes.

Commissioners made discussion and seemed interested in not continuing bonus birds on WMA hunts.

Commissioner Bill Cox mentioned statewide seasons were made based on harvest records and data but he hasn't seen the evidence that WMA Managers use data analysis on setting seasons on WMA's. He pointed out the changes to the WMA's in West Tennessee weren't data driven but were made out of reaction to closing some of the counties on the Mississippi River. It seems his points were directed at Region 1 going from open to statewide, to all quota hunts, then opening 2 weeks later for the majority of WMAs in West Tenn.

Other Commissioners did speak on this issue and said they would like to see more uniformity on the WMA's as well.

Members of the public spoke of the current conditions and ddressed concerns for not being proactive to the issues so many are discussing this year.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Wow Joy! Frankly you're wrong!


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[PickettSFHunter]

She's a lot more interested in non-game species than any game species. Head in sand.


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[Setterman]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

 

[RS]

The headline on Twitter was wrong when it states "population is stable". TWRA admitted the mistake and said it should have read "harvest has been stable". Of course I'm assuming harvest thus far for 2018 was not included. They said population studies are ongoing.

 

[AT Hiker]

When the majority of people I talk to say the numbers are down, I believe them.
When I drive hundreds of miles per week and only see a handful of turkeys, I believe the numbers are down as well.
Its like when your trucks fuel gauge is messed up. You know your running low on gas but the gauge says other wise. Next think you know your carrying a gas can down the road...



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[Southern Sportsman]

Per today's Commission meeting, TWRA Biologist Joy Sweeney gave her presentation on turkey season setting. According to her presentation, our population is stable and gave no recommendations for changes.

I think this was boiled down to a simple chart showing historical kill numbers. 2017 increased slightly over 2016 so they ignore the glaring problems. 2018 was not included.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

I think this is a harsh over generalization. I believe many of the biologist working for the twra are for decreasing the limit, at least the ones i talk to. However, they do not get a say or a vote on the subject. Now the commissioners, that may be a different story. I did take commissioner Cox on the governors one shot hunt a few years back and he seemed sensible but i would bet he's not in the woods or looking for turkeys near as much as most people on this site.


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[Setterman]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

I think this is a harsh over generalization. I believe many of the biologist working for the twra are for decreasing the limit, at least the ones i talk to. However, they do not get a say or a vote on the subject. Now the commissioners, that may be a different story. I did take commissioner Cox on the governors one shot hunt a few years back and he seemed sensible but i would bet he's not in the woods or looking for turkeys near as much as most people on this site.


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At no point in recent history have the turkey biologists for twra been correct. From the high fall limits, to the four bird limit, and now this.

I challenge you to provide one example of sound biological opinion or recommendations from these clowns. My dogs know more about managing turkeys then this lady or Mr. Gray before her.

It's a joke to say otherwise

 

[woodsman04]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

I think this is a harsh over generalization. I believe many of the biologist working for the twra are for decreasing the limit, at least the ones i talk to. However, they do not get a say or a vote on the subject. Now the commissioners, that may be a different story. I did take commissioner Cox on the governors one shot hunt a few years back and he seemed sensible but i would bet he's not in the woods or looking for turkeys near as much as most people on this site.


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At no point in recent history have the turkey biologists for twra been correct. From the high fall limits, to the four bird limit, and now this.

I challenge you to provide one example of sound biological opinion or recommendations from these clowns. My dogs know more about managing turkeys then this lady or Mr. Gray before her.

It's a joke to say otherwise

It's hard for me to justify anyone is interested in helping a turkey population as long as hens are legal.

Will eliminating fall hen killing make a difference? Probably not, but until they outlaw hens I cannot back an organization that says hens are ok to shoot.

When they say hens are illegal, I'll say ok they tried a little bit.




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[Goodtimekiller]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

I think this is a harsh over generalization. I believe many of the biologist working for the twra are for decreasing the limit, at least the ones i talk to. However, they do not get a say or a vote on the subject. Now the commissioners, that may be a different story. I did take commissioner Cox on the governors one shot hunt a few years back and he seemed sensible but i would bet he's not in the woods or looking for turkeys near as much as most people on this site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At no point in recent history have the turkey biologists for twra been correct. From the high fall limits, to the four bird limit, and now this.

I challenge you to provide one example of sound biological opinion or recommendations from these clowns. My dogs know more about managing turkeys then this lady or Mr. Gray before her.

It's a joke to say otherwise

It's hard for me to justify anyone is interested in helping a turkey population as long as hens are legal.

Will eliminating fall hen killing make a difference? Probably not, but until they outlaw hens I cannot back an organization that says hens are ok to shoot.

When they say hens are illegal, I'll say ok they tried a little bit.




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Any idea how many hens are killed in the fall? I have no idea. I can count on 2 fingers the people i know that fall hunt in tn. I know in different areas there may be more


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[megalomaniac]

Dangit, I missed out.... I was actually going to post my 'REVISED PREDICTIONS FOR SPRING 2018 SEASON' tomorrow....

My new predictions were that #1 this would be the lowest harvest since restoration completed..... BUT everyone was going to blame it on the weather instead if admitting declining populations.

#2 TWRA and the commission were going to recommend not a single change to the current season.

Why was I thinking this?? There are some very vocal people on FB who either are ignorant or selfishly denying the decline in population in hopes they can keep killing 4 birds per year. For now, they are hunting areas which have only slightly declined in population. Their lack of knowledge in basic turkey biology is overcome by their forcefulness in their claims that turkeys are doing fine and that hunters simply cannot hunt or kill a bird in the rain or on Easter weekend.

I have no hope for the future of turkeys in TN. At least it's looking good for a long term lease in TX.... just won't be the same chasing some of the dumbest birds on the planet.

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[woodsman04]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

I think this is a harsh over generalization. I believe many of the biologist working for the twra are for decreasing the limit, at least the ones i talk to. However, they do not get a say or a vote on the subject. Now the commissioners, that may be a different story. I did take commissioner Cox on the governors one shot hunt a few years back and he seemed sensible but i would bet he's not in the woods or looking for turkeys near as much as most people on this site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At no point in recent history have the turkey biologists for twra been correct. From the high fall limits, to the four bird limit, and now this.

I challenge you to provide one example of sound biological opinion or recommendations from these clowns. My dogs know more about managing turkeys then this lady or Mr. Gray before her.

It's a joke to say otherwise

It's hard for me to justify anyone is interested in helping a turkey population as long as hens are legal.

Will eliminating fall hen killing make a difference? Probably not, but until they outlaw hens I cannot back an organization that says hens are ok to shoot.

When they say hens are illegal, I'll say ok they tried a little bit.




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Any idea how many hens are killed in the fall? I have no idea. I can count on 2 fingers the people i know that fall hunt in tn. I know in different areas there may be more


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No idea how many hens are killed in the fall,I hunt in the fall, gobblers only, but you missed my point.

TWRA cannot claim they care about turkeys until they make killing of hens illegal.


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[Goodtimekiller]

I didn't miss your point, your comment just brought up a question in my mind and i wondered if you knew.


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[scn]

And the ineptitude continues.

Twra has the biggest bunch of clown commissioners and biologists ever assembled. Sorry scn, but those in these positions are a travesty

Sorry, Jim, but that is way harsh. I understand and share the passion and concern, but that is way over the top. The data that is there doesn't show the sky is falling scenario that you and I share. The last few years of harvests are stable or increasing. However, there is the question of whether or not increased hunter participation is masking the problem by keeping the harvest up there. Joy expressed that concern to me today. She tried to get funding to research that area a couple of years ago, and, was unsuccessful. It is an area that needs to be explored. I think it is very possible that increased hunting pressure due to new hunters having success with few turkey hunting skills beyond holding up a fan are very likely keeping the kill artificially high compared to historical data with traditional hunting methods. It is on their radar.

To call the commissioners clowns is a total disconnect from reality. Most are not trained biologists, but they try their best to decipher and interpret the data given to them by the agency. That data currently doesn't paint the picture you and I think is out there. They are deluged by comments from the public that run the whole gamut of the population has crashed and the season needs to be shut down to we have more birds than ever and the bag limit needs to be increased. Put yourself in their shoes for just a second and imagine how hard that is to form a true picture on field conditions.

And, as I have said, over the years, when someone takes the time to appear before them and speak, they tend to listen. The last person from the public that spoke to them concerning turkeys was a couple of years ago. That hunter's request to them was to totally end the fall season, and cut the bag limit back to 2. The outcome was that the commission totally changed the fall season from where a hunter could kill a truckload of birds to making the limit for the hunter one per the whole season. It wasn't what I wanted, but, to say I wasn't listened to would be wrong.

Today, two hunters took the time to address the commission with their concerns. One was a former TNDeer member of whom I have the utmost respect. The work he did a few years ago in attending and speaking at legislative hearings on deer farming may have very well helped save us from the current CWD explosion. The other we will leave unnamed except to say it is someone that lives for the spring turkey season. I guess we will see in May if there was any effect. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that if there had been multiples of those two hunters willing to stand before the Commission and send their message that chances would be better for some changes.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

I didn't miss your point, your comment just brought up a question in my mind and i wondered if you knew.


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449 hens in 2017.

https://hunterstoolbox.gooutdoorstennes ... portId=227

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I didn't miss your point, your comment just brought up a question in my mind and i wondered if you knew.


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449 hens in 2017.

https://hunterstoolbox.gooutdoorstennes ... portId=227

Thanks


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[PalsPal]

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that if there had been multiples of those two hunters willing to stand before the Commission and send their message that chances would be better for some changes.

Interesting that only two would show up. Those obviously care about preserving the sport. You would think after all of the lamenting on here the room would have been full. Guess all talk no action.

You told them what was needed, but I guess it fell on deaf ears.


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[TheLBLman]

Great post, SCN,
although I do relate well to both your and Setterman's opinions and frustrations.
True reality may be somewhere in between.

Your attendance and input at the commission meeting was most appreciated and respected.

The data that is there doesn't show the sky is falling scenario that you and I share.
The last few years of harvests are stable or increasing.
However, there is the question of whether or not increased hunter participation is masking the problem by keeping the harvest up there.
Joy expressed that concern to me today.

IMO, which has been previously stated numerous times,
it is in fact increased hunter participation that is masking the problem of a declining turkey population statewide.
More specifically, it may be increased hunter efficiencies more than hunter participation.

In other words, we have been progressively killing a higher percentage of the living longbeards (2-yr-old and older birds) over the past several years. At the same time, we may have been killing fewer jakes, which has further muddied the waters on harvest data interpretation as it relates to overall population.

Also, the rapid rise in certain hunting techniques (such as hunting from mobile blinds, using decoys, "reaping", etc.) may have contributed to a relatively higher annual harvest of those still living 3-yr-old and older Toms, making it easier to form an erroneous conclusion if one bases his (or her) thoughts mainly on traditional harvest data.

Along with this, mature Toms have traditionally been the birds most likely to "hang up" just outside of effective shotgun range. Over the past few years, new turkey chokes and loads have increased effective range so significantly that relatively more of these formerly "hung up" birds are now within range. Then, there is the rapid change in hunter attitudes, where "killing" (by whatever means) seems to have taken more relevance than that the traditional "playing the game" of calling up a turkey to close range, killing him during the show. In times past, more hunters would have had less problem in letting an old Tom walk, if he didn't "play the game". Today, more hunters just kill that old bird at 50-plus yards where he hung up (out of range in times past).

Some of these observations may only be fully appreciated by avid turkey hunters who spend a lot of time turkey hunting themselves, as well as conversing with lots of other turkey hunters.

 

[TheLBLman]

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that if there had been multiples of those two hunters willing to stand before the Commission and send their message that chances would be better for some changes.

Interesting that only two would show up.

You told them what was needed, but I guess it fell on deaf ears.

I can assure you SCN's attendance and comments did not fall on deaf ears.

 

[RobbyW]

Not trying to be in the "drama", but how many guys that are demanding changed tagged out this year?

 

[megalomaniac]

I have never shot 4 birds in a season myself, I have never 'tagged out' since the limit was raised from 2. In fact, I've never shot more than 2 myself until last year when I shot 3 and shot 3 this year. I'm just not that greedy, and would rather see others kill birds. Now that being said, I'm usually personally responsible for 8-10 birds each year being killed (mine, plus the others I call in for friends and family). I only hunted twice the entire season in TN by myself, and those were 2 of my 3 I killed. My 3rd bird was a double after I let my friend shoot his bird first.

I suppose you could argue that I'm in favor of a limit reduction because it won't affect me personally...

 

[Coldfusion]

I think we limit the spring season to 2 birds and eliminate fall season. Do this for a couple of years and reassess. Hens should be off limits permantly. Historically resource protection acts have been more reactive than proactive. With declines in birds we need to act now not in 5 years because sales went down. I know alot of guys who get to own and hunt only private land and many of them are seeing declines as well. We have to look at this problem as a whole and not from judging from our personal parcels or land. Not being greedy or selfish because we want to hunt. If the birds disappear then hunting is gone forever so why not pump the brakes and conserve a bit temporarily? Because if numbers in general decrease then inherently eventually that decrease will influence your private land as well.

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[paboom]

I haven't been in TN for a long time so I don't have the full breath of knowledge many of you do. But I do have a question.

I grew up in Virginia and still hunt there every year. They allow up to 3 Gobblers in the Spring and you can kill up to 2 hens in the Fall. (one tag is Spring only) It's been that way as long as I can remember. Turkey numbers seem to be steady and the hunting is still really good in my opinion.

In looking at turkey populations by state really quickly, TN and VA have about the same amount of birds. Why are so many opposed to a fall season on hens? It seems to me that it would be the same as eliminating does from deer season.

 

[Coldfusion]

I haven't been in TN for a long time so I don't have the full breath of knowledge many of you do. But I do have a question.

I grew up in Virginia and still hunt there every year. They allow up to 3 Gobblers in the Spring and you can kill up to 2 hens in the Fall. (one tag is Spring only) It's been that way as long as I can remember. Turkey numbers seem to be steady and the hunting is still really good in my opinion.

In looking at turkey populations by state really quickly, TN and VA have about the same amount of birds. Why are so many opposed to a fall season on hens? It seems to me that it would be the same as eliminating does from deer season.

Because turkey numbers are in decline here. More hens equals more turkeys. Another issue is probably our growing population of varmints and coyotes. Especially in middle TN where the human population is exploding this forces the wildlife into smaller and smaller areas so that hurts the situation too.

I have no knowledge of VA birds, but in TN the turkey population dipped before and was restored, now it's showing signs it's dipping again so most of us want to take ALL efforts to preserve the presence of the species.

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[paboom]

Because turkey numbers are in decline here. More hens equals more turkeys. Another issue is probably our growing population of varmints and coyotes. Especially in middle TN where the human population is exploding this forces the wildlife into smaller and smaller areas so that hurts the situation too.

I have no knowledge of VA birds, but in TN the turkey population dipped before and was restored, now it's showing signs it's dipping again so most of us want to take ALL efforts to preserve the presence of the species.

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I understand they are shrinking, but are they at dangerous levels? That's what I'm trying to understand. Is it that people don't like they they can't hear 10 birds gobbling every morning or that they can't find ANY birds?

If human population is exploding as you stated and habitat is shrinking, then do the numbers need to stay at the same level?

Again, I'm new here so I'm not trying to cause trouble. Just curious.

 

[poorhunter]

Because turkey numbers are in decline here. More hens equals more turkeys. Another issue is probably our growing population of varmints and coyotes. Especially in middle TN where the human population is exploding this forces the wildlife into smaller and smaller areas so that hurts the situation too.

I have no knowledge of VA birds, but in TN the turkey population dipped before and was restored, now it's showing signs it's dipping again so most of us want to take ALL efforts to preserve the presence of the species.

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I understand they are shrinking, but are they at dangerous levels? That's what I'm trying to understand. Is it that people don't like they they can't hear 10 birds gobbling every morning or that they can't find ANY birds?

If human population is exploding as you stated and habitat is shrinking, then do the numbers need to stay at the same level?

Again, I'm new here so I'm not trying to cause trouble. Just curious.

Excellent questions! I will only speak about what I have seen on my properties that I hunt. I have 11 farms that total a little over 1200 acres, most of which are within a 3 miles radius. I moved here in 2013 and was shocked at the number of birds I saw. They were everywhere! Up until this year that is. I get out nearly every day to at least listen to roost gobbling, and my sightings and hearing gobblers is down I'd say 90% from last year. I haven't heard a gobble since last Friday and since April 14 a gobble after flydown. Something happened overnight and it wasn't overkilling since I'm the only one who hunts these farms. There are plenty of areas that are doing just fine in Tennessee, but there are pockets like mine being reported at an increasing rate.

 

[Shanman]

Just a side note, but I'm pretty sure that the regs will be set for 2yrs now instead of every (1) year. Fishing regs will be set the same, every 2yrs. Hunting regs set on even years while fishing regs set on odd years. Could be wrong but believe that is right. So, what isn't changed in the turkey regs this year......will be 2020 until new regs can be implemented???

https://www.tn.gov/twra/news/2018/4/20/ ... eview.html

 

[PalsPal]

I can assure you SCN's attendance and comments did not fall on deaf ears.

You misunderstood, I was talking about those wanting change on here had the deaf ears.

SCN told everyone a few weeks ago that the only real way to get anything accomplished is to SHOW UP at the meeting and make your voice heard . They didn't go!

BTW, Steve didn't mention if he addressed the commission.

 

[UpperTully]

I would love to show up at a meeting, especially for yesterday's. It's kind of difficult to do it when the meeting is 3 hours away and during the middle of the week.

I wish there was a better way to make a positive influence other than showing up. I send emails to Commissioners but often times I feel that is ineffective.