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Setterman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
5,339
City & State/Province
Knoxville, TN
Given the onslaught of hunters and unlimited time on everyone's hands TWRA needs to immediately reduce our statewide limits for this season. The kill data is staggering and not normal based on past trends. The areas I hunt are flooded with out of state hunters and most mornings I hear more shots than I normally hear in an entire season.

Once again our game management is MIA, which is not shocking to most.
 
This year's opener is the first year in my 25 years of hunting the same farm that I have heard more than a couple shots. Even during the hay day of turkey numbers I've never heard as many shots.

Public lands...insane is the only word I got.


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Stuff is getting real now. I don't know when some people are gonna learn that TWRA could care less. Out of state hunters are paying just like we are. It's a money thing to them. The more out of staters, the more money... They don't care we could wipe out twice as money turkeys, in an already declining population, as normal...

Money, Money, Money...
 
I don't think they care. They'll let us hunt them till they're extinct They just worried about license sales Nothing will change
 
TWRA cant do anything. The Fish & Wildlife Commission makes the management decisions. TWRA just enforces the rules they make. Email your commissioner. They have upcoming meetings to discuss turkey management issues.
 
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It's way too late at this point. Changes needed to be made 6 or 7 years ago.

I actually shut the hunting down completely on my farms after the 3rd day of the season to ensure there were a few remaining gobblers left to breed the hens.

I was hoping the slightly later opening dates and early spring would have the hens bred early this year, but nope, they are right on schedule at my place and breeding hasnt even started.

At this point, the only way to reverse the decline is to go to a 2 week season that starts April21st.

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megalomaniac":39zt884z said:
At this point, the only way to reverse the decline is to go to a 2 week season that starts April 21st.
My calculation was April 18th :tu:

Southern Sportsman":39zt884z said:
TWRA cant do anything.
The Fish & Wildlife Commission makes the management decisions.
TWRA just enforces the rules they make.
Email your commissioner.
They have upcoming meetings to discuss turkey management issues.
These statements are only valid up to a point.

True, our county wildlife officers mainly just enforce the rules, the commissioners make those rules, but the commissioners largely rubber-stamp the TWRA's bird biologist's recommendations.

IMO, TN's turkey season opens earlier mainly to attract non-resident license sales,
since many other states open a week or two later.
 
TheLBLman":2p6yzu6z said:
megalomaniac":2p6yzu6z said:
At this point, the only way to reverse the decline is to go to a 2 week season that starts April 21st.
My calculation was April 18th :tu:

Southern Sportsman":2p6yzu6z said:
TWRA cant do anything.
The Fish & Wildlife Commission makes the management decisions.
TWRA just enforces the rules they make.
Email your commissioner.
They have upcoming meetings to discuss turkey management issues.
These statements are only valid up to a point.

True, our county wildlife officers mainly just enforce the rules, the commissioners make those rules, but the commissioners largely rubber-stamp the TWRA's bird biologist's recommendations.

IMO, TN's turkey season opens earlier mainly to attract non-resident license sales,
since many other states open a week or two later.
We havent had a turkey coordinator that knows his ass from a black hole in over 2 decades. All TWRA cares about is deer.

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You guys crack me up. When no one us killing turkeys the twra has caused the population demise, when everyone is having a great weekend the twra is causing the population demise. I bet i saw close to 50 different jakes this weekend. So maybe, after 2 years of non record harvests and better hatches the population is doing better and people are more successful. Kind of how predator/prey relationships work.

I dont know a single person who just decided to pick up turkey hunting this year, in fact i know some who are having a tougher year, some having better.


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Goodtimekiller":2ogzg0dx said:
You guys crack me up. When no one us killing turkeys the twra has caused the population demise, when everyone is having a great weekend the twra is causing the population demise. I bet i saw close to 50 different jakes this weekend. So maybe, after 2 years of non record harvests and better hatches the population is doing better and people are more successful. Kind of how predator/prey relationships work.

I dont know a single person who just decided to pick up turkey hunting this year, in fact i know some who are having a tougher year, some having better.

You hunting in Region 2?

This is a fair enough point. If kill numbers were poor, I'd be mad. Now they're through the roof and I'm mad. But It's getting harder to deny that our season is too early from a reproduction standpoint. Peak nest initiation is around the first week of May. So most hens have not started breeding yet. But we've already killed nearly a quarter of the turkeys capable of breeding them. No one can argue that to be good for future turkey numbers. If we started April 15 or later and pounded gobblers the first week, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned.

Also, the last two years were not "better hatches" overall, according to the summer brood survey - Which is the only empirical measure we have. We don't have more turkeys. We're just killing a bigger percentage of what we have. I would bet a lot that this year's numbers of poults with hens and poults per hen will be much worse. If we keep hatching fewer and getting fewer to adulthood, but keep killing more the next spring, the math ends badly.
 
AT Hiker":1n4v4uz7 said:
This year's opener is the first year in my 25 years of hunting the same farm that I have heard more than a couple shots.
I heard 12 shots opening morning in west TN before noon. Average would be 2-4. Great weekend weather where I was at and the hunters were out in full force, burning them down, or missing a lot, or a combination of both. I watched two old birds get shot opening weekend, right in front of me. That is a first in my career, back to back mornings of getting one cut down right in front of me.
 
Aren't there plenty of Jake's left to breed the Hens? (I'm assuming Jake's are able to breed hens.)
 
Carlos":tzx9zcan said:
Aren't there plenty of Jake's left to breed the Hens? (I'm assuming Jake's are able to breed hens.)
No. Only a very small percentage of jakes will breed hens.


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Southern Sportsman":2ega9yby said:
It's getting harder to deny that our season is too early from a reproduction standpoint.
. . . . . . .
We don't have more turkeys.
We're just killing a bigger percentage of what we have.
That's EXACTLY RIGHT.

I'm afraid our turkeys are on a slow roll to going the way of our bobwhite quail.

In all fairness, many of the reasons for the decline in quail & now turkeys is beyond much anything TWRA can do.
But as to what TWRA can do, and should have done, they've just sat on their laurels,
"they" being as much those commissioners as much as TWRA's top "leaders".

Behind the scenes at TWRA, they are trying to balance a budget,
and turkey-hunting non-resident hunters contribute greatly financially.
Same can be said for non-resident fishermen.

Meanwhile, many of us complain about the high costs of our resident licenses,
which in turn causes TWRA to rely more on non-resident turkey hunters to make up the shortfalls.
IMO, any alternative other than both residents & non-residents paying higher licensing fees,
that's even worse.

The main alternative floated is letting the State take over the funding of TWRA via higher taxes on everything,
but in turn, the state legislatures (most of them non-hunters) gain much more control of all TWRA decisions.
May be one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't choices.

Although some states do this well (albeit with a state income tax), If you think this state funding might be a better alternative, just take a look at how it works with the game & fish regulations in the State of Illinois as an example. Our current regs are remarkably good and simple by comparison.

I will say, considering all the factors, TWRA does a great job with their budget,
but it may be taking its toll on our turkeys.
I don't know what the answer is, other than everything has a price,
and if we resident hunters remain unwilling to pay more (financially) into the system,
I do understand the financial management dilemma of the TWRA bean counters.

Just saying, not bashing TWRA, just bashing their turkey mismanagement,
for which perhaps most county wildlife officers are not party.
Our county wildlife officers just do as they're told by the TWRA leaders in Nashville.
They certainly don't necessarily agree with all the management decisions,
but as in the military, they follow orders.
 
Our numbers seem to be up slightly on our lease but kill numbers still down. Our land is mostly thick. No way to see turkeys. Different from yawls area we already have some hens on the nest. They just are not gobbling. I've heard 2 birds gobble 1 time each this morning. Why because they hit the ground and strut and breed all day. A later season would Definately up turkey numbers because we would not kill any. It's just not fun hunting them like a deer. The season used to open first Saturday in March here. Limit was 2. Things were awesome then. I'd hear 10 to 15 gobblers every good morning. Sitting here listening to quiet woods is not for me. Twra with upping limits and later opener has about ruined it for me.
 
TN is attracting more and more nonresidents this year because many of the other states have a 14 day quarantine for people coming into their state. It certainly doesn't help that all these Youtube stars keep advertising how great the public land hunting in TN is. If I didn't live here, TN would definitely be on my radar for places to hunt.

The Hunting Public should be releasing their TN hunt anyday now. They've got over 200,000 followers on Youtube. Expect another influx of nonresident hunters after it airs.
 
I have seen nearly 50 jakes on 3 farms we hunted, as i drive around the area where i hunt there are turkeys everywhere. One farm, the day after we shot 2 longbeards hanging with 10 jakes and 2 other longbeards, from the road we saw at least 5 more longbeards and roughly 30 jakes and hens, on 300 acres. We saw poults on one farm.

The season opener is later than it has ever been, even when populations were growing like crazy. So does it seem like that is the answer? To me, no. Do i think the limit should be decreased, probably, but around my area the population is doing well and the hatch was incredible, better than ive seen in 8 years ive lived here.


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Goodtimekiller":azmvv44u said:
I have seen nearly 50 jakes on 3 farms we hunted, as i drive around the area where i hunt there are turkeys everywhere. One farm, the day after we shot 2 longbeards hanging with 10 jakes and 2 other longbeards, from the road we saw at least 5 more longbeards and roughly 30 jakes and hens, on 300 acres. We saw poults on one farm.
Count your blessings, and please realize you and your farms are in the top 0.01%. Resource agencies should never manage for the tip of the iceberg.

Goodtimekiller":azmvv44u said:
The season opener is later than it has ever been, even when populations were growing like crazy.
Opening date has not changed per the proclamation, it's the Saturday closest to April 1, with season running for 44 days straight. The opening date swinging to April 4 every 7 years does nothing appreciable to counter the first week massacre that removes a solid portion of the mature male breeding population.

Goodtimekiller":azmvv44u said:
Do i think the limit should be decreased, probably, ....
This gives us hope that you realize TFWC & TWRA manages the entire state, not just your turkey mecca.
 
Buzzard Breath":3u4t49gh said:
TN is attracting more and more nonresidents this year because many of the other states have a 14 day quarantine for people coming into their state. It certainly doesn't help that all these Youtube stars keep advertising how great the public land hunting in TN is. If I didn't live here, TN would definitely be on my radar for places to hunt.

The Hunting Public should be releasing their TN hunt anyday now. They've got over 200,000 followers on Youtube. Expect another influx of nonresident hunters after it airs.
Ditto. I feel for the RESIDENT hunters who have to deal with that BS! It further exacerbates the issue knowing the growing increase in pressure from NR hunters is brought on by other RESIDENT hunters who cannot see the forest for the trees.
 
Andy S.":n3oz3pdu said:
Buzzard Breath":n3oz3pdu said:
TN is attracting more and more nonresidents this year because many of the other states have a 14 day quarantine for people coming into their state. It certainly doesn't help that all these Youtube stars keep advertising how great the public land hunting in TN is. If I didn't live here, TN would definitely be on my radar for places to hunt.

The Hunting Public should be releasing their TN hunt anyday now. They've got over 200,000 followers on Youtube. Expect another influx of nonresident hunters after it airs.
Ditto. I feel for the RESIDENT hunters who have to deal with that BS! It further exacerbates the issue knowing the growing increase in pressure from NR hunters is brought on by other RESIDENT hunters who cannot see the forest for the trees.
"Man, I've never seen so many people here. Public areas are jam packed, I even had a group of hunters trying to cut a bird off me on opening morning. I wish people would stopped telling all of social media what public land they hunt"

"Well, I'm packing up and meeting a 1/2 dozen other NRs on some TN public land. Gonna video it and share it with over 200,000 followers"


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AT Hiker":3dro2gok said:
Andy S.":3dro2gok said:
Buzzard Breath":3dro2gok said:
TN is attracting more and more nonresidents this year because many of the other states have a 14 day quarantine for people coming into their state. It certainly doesn't help that all these Youtube stars keep advertising how great the public land hunting in TN is. If I didn't live here, TN would definitely be on my radar for places to hunt.

The Hunting Public should be releasing their TN hunt anyday now. They've got over 200,000 followers on Youtube. Expect another influx of nonresident hunters after it airs.
Ditto. I feel for the RESIDENT hunters who have to deal with that BS! It further exacerbates the issue knowing the growing increase in pressure from NR hunters is brought on by other RESIDENT hunters who cannot see the forest for the trees.
"Man, I've never seen so many people here. Public areas are jam packed, I even had a group of hunters trying to cut a bird off me on opening morning. I wish people would stopped telling all of social media what public land they hunt"

"Well, I'm packing up and meeting a 1/2 dozen other NRs on some TN public land. Gonna video it and share it with over 200,000 followers"
Many would not believe the buzz that BS causes. I have numerous hunters talk to me about this, and they are not even affected by it. They just view it on social media like the thousands of others who do the same. They realize how it undermines the local resident hunters who have hunted those areas their entire lives.
 
Andy S.":24sejxfd said:
Goodtimekiller":24sejxfd said:
I have seen nearly 50 jakes on 3 farms we hunted, as i drive around the area where i hunt there are turkeys everywhere.
Count your blessings, and please realize you and your farms are in the top 0.01%. Resource agencies should never manage for the tip of the iceberg.
Andy is spot on.

Goodtimekiller, if you have that many turkeys, it really sounds like your area may have been the wintering flocking area for a much larger surrounding area. I'd suspect the surrounding area may have relatively few turkeys.

I don't know why some years the winter flocks stay together longer or disperse sooner, but it creates a lot of feast or famine for different areas from year to year. And, at least in some of the larger contiguous habitat areas, where the turkeys winter this year may be several miles away from where they wintered last year.

I also have about 300 acres in one farm I hunt.
Back in January, it was full of turkeys, including at least 7 longbeards, over a dozen jakes, and what appeared to be around a couple dozen hens.
By mid-March, multiple trail cams were catching a grand total of 1 remaining gobbler, 3 jakes, and zero hens.

I'd almost prefer to have no turkeys during the winter, as it seems, when I have them in the winter, they disappear by April, at least on this farm.
Never mind, there's another farm maybe 3 miles down the road, having its feast or famine in opposite years to mine.

Just saying, despite what you're seeing now, you could be wondering what happened to all your turkeys next year.
 
Buzzard Breath":wvddfr30 said:
Goodtimekiller":wvddfr30 said:
We saw poults on one farm.

:pop:

This is not uncommon, but you definitely shouldn't read too much into it. A few hens breed early. Poult surveys show the earliest nests happen in early-mid March each year - so a very few poults will show up on the ground around early-mid April. But those early-nesting hens are outliers. Nesting starts in earnest in late April and continues through early June (including renesting attemps and later-breeding jennies), with an average date around the first week of May. So SOME hens have already started nesting, and a very small few have already hatched poults. But MOST will (ideally) start nesting in the next 2-3 weeks - after >25% of gobblers have already been killed.
 
Andy S.":2z44amke said:
Many would not believe the buzz that BS causes. I have numerous hunters talk to me about this, and they are not even affected by it. They just view it on social media like the thousands of others who do the same. They realize how it undermines the local resident hunters who have hunted those areas their entire lives.

I've been a NR Western hunter for quite some time now. All it takes is for one question on a forum and someone gives a little more info than they should and that will ruin a area, overnight.
Post a picture and many people can figure it out pretty easily and a video just makes it that much easier.

I'm all about people traveling to hunt but capitalizing on a delicate resource with a real side affect of ruining it for those that depend on it is a grey area.
Not everyone can move from place to place once it is burned out. Not sure why that concept is hard to understand.


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AT Hiker":1gnn760p said:
Not sure why that concept is hard to understand.
I think the answer has something to do with raw emotion over logical thought.

Ever notice how when someone kills an exceptional buck,
the crowds demand to know, "Where did you kill it?"
Then the crowds flood that area,
never mind the reason they're going there is already gone.

I've seen this so much at LBL & Ft. Campbell.
"What area did you kill it?"
Then there they all go to that area!
 

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