Turkey numbers …think about it

Iglow

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Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
2,300
Location
Occupied Tennessee
This isn't a knock on the TWRA or any game and fish dept anywhere but besides filling empty habitat and busting game hogs what problem like cwd , blue tongue, whirling disease in trout, rock snot or any other have they "solved" or "fixed"? I can't think of one and I think it's because it's beyond their power to do so , not because they don't care. This turkey thing isn't gonna be solved by man, if it's a disease what are they gonna do? Line all the turkeys up and inoculated them? Broadcast treated food from helicopters? We may one one day find out why this downturn happened but we won't ever see the day we magically reversed it unless it's over killing related.
 

Carlos

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Dec 5, 2014
Messages
5,238
Copied from Facebook:
Okay I'd like your input if you've hunted a farm BEFORE and AFTER chicken litter has been used.
Got a shock this morning; went to listen to a favorite farm and right off the bat I smelled something funny. Then started seeing bones and feathers….then it gets full daylight and there are buzzards EVERYWHERE!
I mean more than I have ever seen in my life and I'm 60 years old!
Also all I saw were coyote tracks everywhere. Plus I saw 2 coyotes.
I always thought chicken litter was poop but apparently it's everything but a live chicken.
I checked with the farmer and he said they put it down last week.
Didn't hear any gobbling but this is a farm where if you creep around and use your binos you'll probably find them. Not today. Didn't even see any sign.
Am I over reacting?
Will they come back?
This isn't my only place but it was kind of a favorite because it's really close and I'm usually able to take one a year off of it.

What do y'all think?

One reply:
I may be wrong, and no I'm not a scientist or doctor or wildlife expert and so on…
But I used to raise chickens for several years had 200 plus at one time, I decided I'd buy a few domestic turkeys, an old man that knew I owned chickens said boy don't pen them together or up close even
Them turkeys will get sick and die
I thought no way my flock is healthy I keep them wormed and such…
Turkeys go in chicken pen, a few days go by turkeys are healthy as can be
All of a sudden Turkey hens start mysteriously dying as if they'd just stopped breathing and fell over
Then the gobbler followed the same way…
That same man later on told me he'd heard that and witnessed that his whole life…
Now I've been to people's farms where turkeys ducks chickens and what not are all running loose all over and that may make a difference not sure…
But what I do know is that Wayne county where I primarily did all my Turkey hunting was loaded with birds, and all of a sudden about the time the county got loaded with chicken houses, they started dropping off slowly, then a huge decline after the local farmers started spreading chicken manure on cattle pastures, and such that were once full of turkeys
Not saying it's all the answer and there is obviously large predator numbers and such, but I truly in my heart believe that it has something to do with it
 

megalomaniac

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Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
14,754
Location
Mississippi
Copied from Facebook:
Okay I'd like your input if you've hunted a farm BEFORE and AFTER chicken litter has been used.
Got a shock this morning; went to listen to a favorite farm and right off the bat I smelled something funny. Then started seeing bones and feathers….then it gets full daylight and there are buzzards EVERYWHERE!
I mean more than I have ever seen in my life and I'm 60 years old!
Also all I saw were coyote tracks everywhere. Plus I saw 2 coyotes.
I always thought chicken litter was poop but apparently it's everything but a live chicken.
I checked with the farmer and he said they put it down last week.
Didn't hear any gobbling but this is a farm where if you creep around and use your binos you'll probably find them. Not today. Didn't even see any sign.
Am I over reacting?
Will they come back?
This isn't my only place but it was kind of a favorite because it's really close and I'm usually able to take one a year off of it.

What do y'all think?

One reply:
I may be wrong, and no I'm not a scientist or doctor or wildlife expert and so on…
But I used to raise chickens for several years had 200 plus at one time, I decided I'd buy a few domestic turkeys, an old man that knew I owned chickens said boy don't pen them together or up close even
Them turkeys will get sick and die
I thought no way my flock is healthy I keep them wormed and such…
Turkeys go in chicken pen, a few days go by turkeys are healthy as can be
All of a sudden Turkey hens start mysteriously dying as if they'd just stopped breathing and fell over
Then the gobbler followed the same way…
That same man later on told me he'd heard that and witnessed that his whole life…
Now I've been to people's farms where turkeys ducks chickens and what not are all running loose all over and that may make a difference not sure…
But what I do know is that Wayne county where I primarily did all my Turkey hunting was loaded with birds, and all of a sudden about the time the county got loaded with chicken houses, they started dropping off slowly, then a huge decline after the local farmers started spreading chicken manure on cattle pastures, and such that were once full of turkeys
Not saying it's all the answer and there is obviously large predator numbers and such, but I truly in my heart believe that it has something to do with it
Histomoniosis... blackhead disease. Chickens are fairly resistant, but turkeys are very susceptible. Not likely the cause of the population reduction.
 

Newt

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Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
270
Nearlt everybody has their own opinions on this.

I don't think it's the Gobblers we need to worry about. The Hens, their eggs, and survival of the poults is likely where we need to focus our attention.
At this stage in the game we need to worry about the gobbler's just as much as the hens IMO. And I would love to see the plastic turkey and fans banned and he is right it would save thousands of gobblers.
I think a lot of people assume there is another gobbler just around the corner ready to be the next ladies man when we carry ol Tom out over our shoulder. I am not sold out on that theory at least in my neck of the woods. Ban the decoys the boss breeding male doesn't charge running wide open to his death to whoop a intruding plastic turkey opening morning all across the state. That leaves more toms breeding hens and re-breeding due to early nest bust etc.
just makes sense to me
 

TheLBLman

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Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Messages
38,048
Location
Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
At this stage in the game we need to worry about the gobbler's just as much as the hens IMO. And I would love to see the plastic turkey and fans banned and he is right it would save thousands of gobblers.
I agree that we need to worry about the gobblers about as much as the hens.

Many years ago, when plastic turkeys and gobbler decoys first came on the scene, before I heard it wasn't sporting to experiment with them, I did quite a bit of experimenting with various types of decoys.

After several years, my conclusion was (at least for me) full-strut decoys were more a liability than an asset, and that was generally the case with all decoys. That's why I stopped using full-strut decoys, and rarely even a single setting (breeding) hen decoy. It's not that they don't work sometimes, but at least as often, they repel birds you might otherwise have had a chance.

Over the past few years, I have found one circumstance where I believe a turkey decoy is consistently more asset than liability. Do I personally need it? Absolutely not. But doing what I'm talking about in a second typically allows for increased opportunity to make a really clean head shot without getting a pellet in the breast, especially when I have a novice hunter with me doing the shooting.

The circumstance is having a good setup, before fly-down, and being able to place a sitting hen decoy in such a circumstance it CANNOT be seen before a strutting gobbler is already within good range. What typically happens, the gobbler will hang around a lot longer, working his way towards that "breeding" hen (in the "assumed" position). Sometimes they even put on a show and mate with the breeding (sitting) hen decoy.

Now, try the same thing with a more visible standing hen decoy, and more often than not, the old Tom hangs up out of range. He may gobble his head off, but he expects the hen to come to him, as nature intended.

As to the full-strut decoys, yes, sometimes they work as advertised. As often or more often, they repel more longbeards than they attract. I could almost write a book on the various liabilities of using turkey decoys equaling or exceeding their assets. Most hunters have no idea how many good opportunities they blow just by distant turkeys seeing them placing or retrieving decoys.

Overall, I could care less whether the regs allow or disallow turkey decoys, but not for one second do I believe outlawing them would make a significant difference in the annual kill. It would just make a small difference regarding which hunters are killing those birds. But dead still ends up being dead.

Regs can only do so much.
They can do essentially nothing in addressing the biggest threats to wild turkeys thriving,
which, imo, #1 has now become raptor predation, particularly hawks annihilating young poults. Next, the ultimate evolving turkey predator is becoming the bald eagle, coming soon to a field near you.

As to the hunting regs, if we really want to help the turkey populations grow, here in TN we need to open the season at least a week later, and reduce the gobbler limit back to no more than two.
 

MickThompson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
5,058
Location
Cookeville, Tennessee
This isn't a knock on the TWRA or any game and fish dept anywhere but besides filling empty habitat and busting game hogs what problem like cwd , blue tongue, whirling disease in trout, rock snot or any other have they "solved" or "fixed"? I can't think of one and I think it's because it's beyond their power to do so , not because they don't care. This turkey thing isn't gonna be solved by man, if it's a disease what are they gonna do? Line all the turkeys up and inoculated them? Broadcast treated food from helicopters? We may one one day find out why this downturn happened but we won't ever see the day we magically reversed it unless it's over killing related.
They restocked turkeys and deer. There's 2 for you
 

MickThompson

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Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
5,058
Location
Cookeville, Tennessee
Copied from Facebook:
Okay I'd like your input if you've hunted a farm BEFORE and AFTER chicken litter has been used.
Got a shock this morning; went to listen to a favorite farm and right off the bat I smelled something funny. Then started seeing bones and feathers….then it gets full daylight and there are buzzards EVERYWHERE!
I mean more than I have ever seen in my life and I'm 60 years old!
Also all I saw were coyote tracks everywhere. Plus I saw 2 coyotes.
I always thought chicken litter was poop but apparently it's everything but a live chicken.
I checked with the farmer and he said they put it down last week.
Didn't hear any gobbling but this is a farm where if you creep around and use your binos you'll probably find them. Not today. Didn't even see any sign.
Am I over reacting?
Will they come back?
This isn't my only place but it was kind of a favorite because it's really close and I'm usually able to take one a year off of it.

What do y'all think?

One reply:
I may be wrong, and no I'm not a scientist or doctor or wildlife expert and so on…
But I used to raise chickens for several years had 200 plus at one time, I decided I'd buy a few domestic turkeys, an old man that knew I owned chickens said boy don't pen them together or up close even
Them turkeys will get sick and die
I thought no way my flock is healthy I keep them wormed and such…
Turkeys go in chicken pen, a few days go by turkeys are healthy as can be
All of a sudden Turkey hens start mysteriously dying as if they'd just stopped breathing and fell over
Then the gobbler followed the same way…
That same man later on told me he'd heard that and witnessed that his whole life…
Now I've been to people's farms where turkeys ducks chickens and what not are all running loose all over and that may make a difference not sure…
But what I do know is that Wayne county where I primarily did all my Turkey hunting was loaded with birds, and all of a sudden about the time the county got loaded with chicken houses, they started dropping off slowly, then a huge decline after the local farmers started spreading chicken manure on cattle pastures, and such that were once full of turkeys
Not saying it's all the answer and there is obviously large predator numbers and such, but I truly in my heart believe that it has something to do with it
That may well be part of it but the Dept of Ag would have to come down with a new set of rules that would almost certainly be overruled by state legislation.
 

TheLBLman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Messages
38,048
Location
Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Regarding the chicken litter, it may or may not be much a factor.
IMO, turkey declines are more a case of EVERYTHING, rather than any one thing.

Turkey, grouse, and quail populations have been trending lower in most areas that have never had any chicken litter within the range of these birds. As one example, the Cherokee National Forest. And to my knowledge, TWRA doesn't use any chicken litter on any food plots in their WMAs, many of which cover a huge acreage, such as Catoosa, North Cumberland, etc.

Many these large WMA areas have had significant habitat improvements over the past decade as well. Just based on habitat improvements, one would generally expect grouse, turkey, and quail populations to trend higher?

What you will see with these bird populations trending lower, and lower,
are raptor populations trending higher, and higher.

It may very well be that the Cooper's Hawk is the #1 cause of these reduced game bird populations?
 

Terrier

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Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
564
Location
Near Southside, TN
The first time I ever used a hen decoy, I put it out front of the hayloft/barn I was going to hide in. It was just before daylight, I was running a little late, but I knew turkeys would normally route thru the barnyard most mornings. Little did I know, but found out very soon, the turkeys were roosted in the trees lining the side of the barnyard! Needless to say, they all flew down the opposite direction of the barnyard and beat feet out of there!
 

Bgoodman30

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,470
I believe it. There's a Tyson plant and tons of chicken houses in Southern middle. Not sure if they can get it from the litter but maybe got it from comingling?
 

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