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TN Jake Kill - Spring Season

Andy S.

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19,583
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Atoka, TN
There’s been a fair amount of discussion and some good debate on jakes so thought I’d share this for those who haven’t seen it. You’ll at least have the kill/checked in data now.
 

TDW05

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
2,204
Location
Tennessee
So we took out a total of 18,997. Almost 19k birds that could have been saved. EASILY.
 
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Bgoodman30

Active Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
777
Andy S.":hrqqv19d said:
There’s been a fair amount of discussion and some good debate on jakes so thought I’d share this for those who haven’t seen it. You’ll at least have the kill/checked in data now.

Doesn't include youth season! Make Jakes off limits and make our limit 3 and save 7500 birds... Sounds appealing..

I am not sure I support any changes, although it may be the unpopular opinion I am OK with NO changes..
 

Setterman

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Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
4,196
Location
Knoxville, TN
Shooting jakes should be outlawed, but sometimes mistakes do happen and one gets taken out, most of us have done it. But it would make everyone be more sure.
 

Devin2009

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
Location
Mt.Pleasant Tn.
I've often wondered this, what's the big deal about shooting Jake's? They dont lay eggs so they are not contributing to the future of the flock. If someone was to shoot a jake the last day of season it's a horrible thing to some, but his 6 other buddies make it to opening day the following year and you and 2 buddies triple opening morning, so what's the difference? That is not a bad thing because they are now long beards, none of the 4 are going to ever breed or really contribute to the flocks future are they?
To me it's more about the trophy preference and not so much about the biological preference. Btw I'm not for or against killing Jake's, I've killed them before any I may kill one again as long as its legal.
I set out to kill longbeards mainly due to the challenge which I love but I do enjoy the table fare as well and if it's one of those years I'll shoot a jake.
 

TheLBLman

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Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Messages
28,247
Location
Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
Devin2009":dicxzpv3 said:
I've often wondered this, what's the big deal about shooting Jake's?
Boils down to a matter of priorities & perspectives.
Truth is, shooting a jake is little different than shooting a male fawn deer.
Neither will ever give birth or lay eggs.
And a single male CAN, at least possibly, breed with multiple females.
So why not kill most the jakes?

Before you answer that question, answer this one:

What are the 3 unique things that most make your turkey hunting exciting
say as compared to hunting some other game (such as deer)?
 

Devin2009

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
Location
Mt.Pleasant Tn.
TheLBLman":1lrmngvj said:
Devin2009":1lrmngvj said:
I've often wondered this, what's the big deal about shooting Jake's?
Boils down to a matter of priorities & perspectives.
Truth is, shooting a jake is little different than shooting a male fawn deer.
Neither will ever give birth or lay eggs.
And a single male CAN, at least possibly, breed with multiple females.
So why not kill most the jakes?

Before you answer that question, answer this one:

What are the 3 unique things that most make your turkey hunting exciting
say as compared to hunting some other game (such as deer)?


I get what you are saying, Jake's are dumb and can be called to the end of your gun barrel and dont gobble or gobbling very little.
Turkey hunting is totally different from most any other hunting I do, deer aren't as vocal, I dont walk miles and miles chasing and playing cat an mouse with them, I cant kill a hen like I could kill a doe if I wanted one to eat. Deer hunting and turkey hunting is like comparing apples and oranges.
I dont shoot Jake's and small bucks on a regular basis anymore, I did when I was younger.
Most people realize that turkey management is totally different from deer management. I cant understand why so many want to think it is?
So my other question is "outlawing" killing Jake's going to effect the Turkey population any different than waiting a year to kill them when the beards are longer and spurs are longer? That question seems to never be answered anytime I've asked it.
 

TDW05

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
2,204
Location
Tennessee
If you save 18k Jakes every fives years it can’t do anything but help the population. That’s that many more chances of successful reproduction, potential gobblers, and everything positive you could think of. Just think of what hunting would be like saving all those birds.
 

Devin2009

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Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
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Mt.Pleasant Tn.
TDW05":3prqpt3q said:
If you save 18k Jakes every fives years it can’t do anything but help the population. That’s that many more chances of successful reproduction, potential gobblers, and everything positive you could think of. Just think of what hunting would be like saving all those birds.


That's not my point, obviously if you kill less birds you will have more birds. My question is around 1 thing only, Someone kills a jake May 15,,2020, people think that is a awful travesty fast forward to March 31,2021 someone kills a 2 year old that was a jake on May 15,2020 and so happened to be in the same group you shot the jake a year prior it's a awesome thing to be celebrated, neither one will ever breed but killing one would be ILLEGAL and the other would be LEGAL. What is the difference other than the trophy part? Does it feed a ego? Am I missing some biological information?
 

catman529

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Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
28,807
Location
Franklin TN
Devin2009":2vdyew73 said:
TDW05":2vdyew73 said:
If you save 18k Jakes every fives years it can’t do anything but help the population. That’s that many more chances of successful reproduction, potential gobblers, and everything positive you could think of. Just think of what hunting would be like saving all those birds.


That's not my point, obviously if you kill less birds you will have more birds. My question is around 1 thing only, Someone kills a jake May 15,,2020, people think that is a awful travesty fast forward to March 31,2021 someone kills a 2 year old that was a jake on May 15,2020 and so happened to be in the same group you shot the jake a year prior it's a awesome thing to be celebrated, neither one will ever breed but killing one would be ILLEGAL and the other would be LEGAL. What is the difference other than the trophy part? Does it feed a ego? Am I missing some biological information?
breeding starts before season. If that Jake was left to the following year, good chance he got to hump a hen or two before being shot.


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JCDEERMAN

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Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
11,807
Location
NASHVILLE, TN
Devin2009":26xafcux said:
If someone was to shoot a jake the last day of season it's a horrible thing to some, but his 6 other buddies make it to opening day the following year and you and 2 buddies triple opening morning, so what's the difference?
Mega may chime in, because I don’t know the exact numbers. I’ve read a good number of jakes won’t make it to the following year you are mentioning due to predation (owls, bobcats, coyotes, bald eagles, etc...). Much different than deer.
 

TDW05

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
2,204
Location
Tennessee
catman529":3nb22wq6 said:
Devin2009":3nb22wq6 said:
TDW05":3nb22wq6 said:
If you save 18k Jakes every fives years it can’t do anything but help the population. That’s that many more chances of successful reproduction, potential gobblers, and everything positive you could think of. Just think of what hunting would be like saving all those birds.


That's not my point, obviously if you kill less birds you will have more birds. My question is around 1 thing only, Someone kills a jake May 15,,2020, people think that is a awful travesty fast forward to March 31,2021 someone kills a 2 year old that was a jake on May 15,2020 and so happened to be in the same group you shot the jake a year prior it's a awesome thing to be celebrated, neither one will ever breed but killing one would be ILLEGAL and the other would be LEGAL. What is the difference other than the trophy part? Does it feed a ego? Am I missing some biological information?
breeding starts before season. If that Jake was left to the following year, good chance he got to hump a hen or two before being shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Exactly catman!
 

Devin2009

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
Location
Mt.Pleasant Tn.
Setterman":vwzg0tyz said:
Outlawing the killing of jakes will only help the population and help overall,gobbling birds fro year to year

Wouldn't reducing the overall limit do the same?


The whole gobbling deal, this year has been one the best years I've had hunting but one of the worst gobbling. Most birds dont gobble much when you got multiple gangs of Jake's whipping every Tom that makes a peep.

I'm talking strictly biological reasons why what I've stated above.

I am very fortunate to live and hunt in Maury County, I have several different places to hunt so I get my chances to hear and experience lots of different turkeys I cant speak about the rest of the state but just because you dont hear them dont mean they aren't around.

I've been lucky enough to tag out 7 of the last 8 years and haven't killed less than 3 turkeys since 2009 when I killed 2 mainly because I just turned 18 and was fixing to graduate high school. I hunt as hard as anyone, I dont use decoys much at all, I personally hate carrying them around, I hate hunting in a blind the only way I'll even consider it if its pouring rain. I love nothing more than to call one in and outsmart an old bird that some say cant be killed.
I feel like I have a good idea what's going on and I'm not just spouting off some ignorance and lack of knowledge when I ask the questions I've asked. I probably spend as much time studying the craft when it's not season than most spend hunting all season, that goes for deer as well.

My honest opinion is this. Being a successful hunter year in and year out is a skill, it's a learned skill that you have to have a desire to learn an master, simply going and hoping for the best useally dont pan out. Anyone can go set up in a blind on the edge of a field with some decoys and wait them out, especially if corn has been around or still is around, but to consistently kill year in and out not doing those things is a skill. It dont matter what the regulations are if you don't have it you dont have it and if people would man up and admit they dont and if they have the desire for it work at it, then things like someone killing a jake or my gosh 4 birds is too many and the things people constantly blame for them not having success really won't matter anymore.
 

Devin2009

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
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Mt.Pleasant Tn.
catman529":2q0xrrp3 said:
Devin2009":2q0xrrp3 said:
TDW05":2q0xrrp3 said:
If you save 18k Jakes every fives years it can’t do anything but help the population. That’s that many more chances of successful reproduction, potential gobblers, and everything positive you could think of. Just think of what hunting would be like saving all those birds.


That's not my point, obviously if you kill less birds you will have more birds. My question is around 1 thing only, Someone kills a jake May 15,,2020, people think that is a awful travesty fast forward to March 31,2021 someone kills a 2 year old that was a jake on May 15,2020 and so happened to be in the same group you shot the jake a year prior it's a awesome thing to be celebrated, neither one will ever breed but killing one would be ILLEGAL and the other would be LEGAL. What is the difference other than the trophy part? Does it feed a ego? Am I missing some biological information?
breeding starts before season. If that Jake was left to the following year, good chance he got to hump a hen or two before being shot.


Cant the same be said for a jake this time of year after a big number of Tom's have been killed?

Breeding in my area tends to start early March so its possible but most 2 year olds are still acting like Jake's and are bunched up like Jake's during the early part of season, in my observations the only difference in the two is beard length.

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Setterman

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Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
4,196
Location
Knoxville, TN
Devin2009":1s5lfo1m said:
Setterman":1s5lfo1m said:
Outlawing the killing of jakes will only help the population and help overall,gobbling birds fro year to year

Wouldn't reducing the overall limit do the same?


The whole gobbling deal, this year has been one the best years I've had hunting but one of the worst gobbling. Most birds dont gobble much when you got multiple gangs of Jake's whipping every Tom that makes a peep.

I'm talking strictly biological reasons why what I've stated above.

I am very fortunate to live and hunt in Maury County, I have several different places to hunt so I get my chances to hear and experience lots of different turkeys I cant speak about the rest of the state but just because you dont hear them dont mean they aren't around.

I've been lucky enough to tag out 7 of the last 8 years and haven't killed less than 3 turkeys since 2009 when I killed 2 mainly because I just turned 18 and was fixing to graduate high school. I hunt as hard as anyone, I dont use decoys much at all, I personally hate carrying them around, I hate hunting in a blind the only way I'll even consider it if its pouring rain. I love nothing more than to call one in and outsmart an old bird that some say cant be killed.
I feel like I have a good idea what's going on and I'm not just spouting off some ignorance and lack of knowledge when I ask the questions I've asked. I probably spend as much time studying the craft when it's not season than most spend hunting all season, that goes for deer as well.

My honest opinion is this. Being a successful hunter year in and year out is a skill, it's a learned skill that you have to have a desire to learn an master, simply going and hoping for the best useally dont pan out. Anyone can go set up in a blind on the edge of a field with some decoys and wait them out, especially if corn has been around or still is around, but to consistently kill year in and out not doing those things is a skill. It dont matter what the regulations are if you don't have it you dont have it and if people would man up and admit they dont and if they have the desire for it work at it, then things like someone killing a jake or my gosh 4 birds is too many and the things people constantly blame for them not having success really won't matter anymore.

I’m not sure if you’re directing this towards me or not, but if you are he’s the most diplomatic I can be.

I’d put my strings of spurs up against damn near anyone for a comparison of success over the years.

I don’t and will not kill a bird that doesn’t gobble and won’t work a call. Period, end of story.

On decoys and blinds, a quick search history will reveal how I feel about those wretched tools.

On to jakes... the way I see it every jake that gets killed is one less gobbling workable bird that guaranteed won’t be there next year. It’s not about trophy bs, it’s about the reason why some of us do this sport.

If I hunt an area with a band of nasty bully jakes and the gobblers are quiet it makes me ecstatic thinking about the next few years.

It’s not about trophies, it’s about having the opportunity to hear woods explode with mature gobbles on a spring morning.
 

Devin2009

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
Location
Mt.Pleasant Tn.
Setterman":137impyz said:
Devin2009":137impyz said:
Setterman":137impyz said:
Outlawing the killing of jakes will only help the population and help overall,gobbling birds fro year to year

Wouldn't reducing the overall limit do the same?


The whole gobbling deal, this year has been one the best years I've had hunting but one of the worst gobbling. Most birds dont gobble much when you got multiple gangs of Jake's whipping every Tom that makes a peep.

I'm talking strictly biological reasons why what I've stated above.

I am very fortunate to live and hunt in Maury County, I have several different places to hunt so I get my chances to hear and experience lots of different turkeys I cant speak about the rest of the state but just because you dont hear them dont mean they aren't around.

I've been lucky enough to tag out 7 of the last 8 years and haven't killed less than 3 turkeys since 2009 when I killed 2 mainly because I just turned 18 and was fixing to graduate high school. I hunt as hard as anyone, I dont use decoys much at all, I personally hate carrying them around, I hate hunting in a blind the only way I'll even consider it if its pouring rain. I love nothing more than to call one in and outsmart an old bird that some say cant be killed.
I feel like I have a good idea what's going on and I'm not just spouting off some ignorance and lack of knowledge when I ask the questions I've asked. I probably spend as much time studying the craft when it's not season than most spend hunting all season, that goes for deer as well.

My honest opinion is this. Being a successful hunter year in and year out is a skill, it's a learned skill that you have to have a desire to learn an master, simply going and hoping for the best useally dont pan out. Anyone can go set up in a blind on the edge of a field with some decoys and wait them out, especially if corn has been around or still is around, but to consistently kill year in and out not doing those things is a skill. It dont matter what the regulations are if you don't have it you dont have it and if people would man up and admit they dont and if they have the desire for it work at it, then things like someone killing a jake or my gosh 4 birds is too many and the things people constantly blame for them not having success really won't matter anymore.

I’m not sure if you’re directing this towards me or not, but if you are he’s the most diplomatic I can be.

I’d put my strings of spurs up against ***** near anyone for a comparison of success over the years.

I don’t and will not kill a bird that doesn’t gobble and won’t work a call. Period, end of story.

On decoys and blinds, a quick search history will reveal how I feel about those wretched tools.

On to jakes... the way I see it every jake that gets killed is one less gobbling workable bird that guaranteed won’t be there next year. It’s not about trophy bs, it’s about the reason why some of us do this sport.

If I hunt an area with a band of nasty bully jakes and the gobblers are quiet it makes me ecstatic thinking about the next few years.

It’s not about trophies, it’s about having the opportunity to hear woods explode with mature gobbles on a spring morning.


Sir I don't know you I was not directing anything toward your anyone in particular, just how people are now days is all. Reading that gave me chills, you are of the few people who feel the exact same way I do!

I dont shoot jakes just because but if they wanna gobble strut and get my heart pumping I'm most likely gonna shoot if legal. I am absolutely ecstatic about the next few years I was a kid the last time I saw this many Jake's in a area at one time, I'm only 29 years old so I haven't had the time to really hone my skills like alot of older people have but I'm working hard to get to that point one day, as far as the spurs and beards(trophy parts) I do enjoy them but it's not why I hunt them, I really dont care about the bragging part of having x amount of beards and spurs. Same for deer I have been real blessed to have killed some good deer I have 8 heads on my wall, to me it's more about preserving the memory and honor of the deer I worked hard to kill the same goes for turkeys.
 

megalomaniac

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Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
9,375
Location
Mississippi
Biologically there is no difference in shooting a jake at the end of the season versus the following spring before breeding begins.

But that assumes several factors.... #1- there are adequate toms remaining/ surviving that first spring to service all remaining hens and jennies until breeding ceases in July. #2- that Jake would have not have become sexually mature that first spring (the majority will not be able to breed... but approx 20٪ will be capable of successfully fertilizing eggs as jakes). And #3- that jake was removed the second spring as a 2 year old prior to breeding any hens.

In other words, a LOT of assumptions for there to no biological difference in killing a jake this year vs a 2 yo the following year.

If you have a ton of male birds, I don't think there is any harm in removing a handful of jakes. If your local population is very limited, removing just 1 jake can make a huge difference for the future (but not as severe as removing all adult males). I have personally watched an isolated and closed suburban flock of turkeys a half mile from my house in MS wiped out over the course of 5 years just from overhunting and removing the adult males before breeding had completed, even though the jakes were allowed a pass.

I think the Jake harvest is just a byproduct of a 4 bird limit. Why not shoot a few if you only have limited time in the woods and will still have a tag or two left? At least thats what I imagine many who shoot jakes are thinking.

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Devin2009

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
695
Location
Mt.Pleasant Tn.
megalomaniac":35ngjude said:
Biologically there is no difference in shooting a jake at the end of the season versus the following spring before breeding begins.

But that assumes several factors.... #1- there are adequate toms remaining/ surviving that first spring to service all remaining hens and jennies until breeding ceases in July. #2- that Jake would have not have become sexually mature that first spring (the majority will not be able to breed... but approx 20٪ will be capable of successfully fertilizing eggs as jakes). And #3- that jake was removed the second spring as a 2 year old prior to breeding any hens.

In other words, a LOT of assumptions for there to no biological difference in killing a jake this year vs a 2 yo the following year.

If you have a ton of male birds, I don't think there is any harm in removing a handful of jakes. If your local population is very limited, removing just 1 jake can make a huge difference for the future (but not as severe as removing all adult males). I have personally watched an isolated and closed suburban flock of turkeys a half mile from my house in MS wiped out over the course of 5 years just from overhunting and removing the adult males before breeding had completed, even though the jakes were allowed a pass.

I think the Jake harvest is just a byproduct of a 4 bird limit. Why not shoot a few if you only have limited time in the woods and will still have a tag or two left? At least thats what I imagine many who shoot jakes are thinking.


I do believe you are onto something, that's the answer I was really getting at.

Some areas can not stand to kill one jake due to the limited total number of turkeys, some areas are loaded with turkeys and can stand it.

I for one would rather see a reduced harvest and total outlaw of killing a hen beard or no beard before and outlaw on killing a jake.

If someone can only kill 2 or 3 turkeys they are prolly not gonna shoot a jake, especially if only 2 birds are allowed.

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