Tell me the truth

[JCDEERMAN]

^^^^ Spot on mega!

 

[DoubleRidge]

I try DoubleRidge, although I'll never be the communicator Grant is.

Don't sell yourself short....the knowledge you share and communicate is greatly appreciated!! Learning more about habitat management is one of the main reasons I joined TNdeer.

 

[DoubleRidge]

How many years has it been since you significantly increased available food through supplemental plantings and habitat improvement?

Remember, it takes a minimum of 4-5 years to really see a difference in antler scores from improving nutrition. You are hunting the button embryo inside her mother 5 years into the future. That prenatal nutrition to the embryo is probably the most important year of that bucks life when it comes to reaching their genetic potential.

8 or 9 years ago, we leased part of one of our farms out and it was converted from fescue fields to soybeans and corn. That farm had tons of mature bucks, but most wouldn't break 115in. I was expecting an overnight difference adding 200 acres of ag. Over the next several years, no significant improvement. But after about 6 years, the difference was amazing. We have taken a 136" 7 pt and a 148" 9pt off it in the last 3 years. The biggest bucks we've ever shot on this farm by far.

So don't give up, it takes TIME, and lots of it to see the fruits of your labor improving habitat.

I read a study once on prenatal nutrition to the embryo.... fascinating stuff....makes perfect sense....thanks for sharing Mega.

We want immediate results and a quick return on our investment of time and resources.....but it takes time....great point.

 

[BSK]

OK,so,I have a couple friends who mix all kinds of stuff to try and make their deer bigger,bigger antlers ect.Im taking yalls advice and staying the course.I have 70 acres on my farm that are tillable out of 10 fields or more,usually corn beans rotation.I usually raise 7 or more acres of foodplots myself,usually corn and winter rye,oats and turnips and a couple bag blends.I have 50 colonies of honeybees and clover is everywhere .The sanctuary inside when I go in mushroom hunting in April is beyond belief with deer sign.Im just trying to get to that 140-145"deer. Its a fun place to hunt,see many seer every sit,just not enough mature bucks. This year I hinge cut at least 5 acres of trash trees.I think Im doing everything right except the huntingn part. One problem I think i have on my 300 acres is there are too many fields and choices. This past season I saw one shooter to me buck,never winded me,never saw me,just cruised fast across the field medium trot looking straight ahead .never stopped,never looked.I cant shoot 250 yards at a moving target.Thanks for reading.

When it comes to the question of supplemental feeding, the first thing I would ask is are the deer running out of the current food by late winter? Are all of the food plots down to the dirt? Are the natural out-of-the-ground food plants being eaten completely away by late February? If not, then supplemental feeding wouldn't be doing much.

diamond hunter, your property sounds great. It sounds like you're doing everything right. I wouldn't worry about having "too many choices" for the deer. Although it may be frustrating for the hunters, many different choices reduces hunting pressure, influencing deer to stay put instead of leaving to find less pressure.

Do you have good trail-camera data indicating you don't have enough mature bucks? Just remember, in most situations, mature bucks NEVER make up more than a small percentage of all bucks. As a general round number, I would say around 10% is about the most you will see (I've seen very large properties max out a little higher, but 10% is a good average figure). And as for antler score, some areas "have it" and others don't. I've got a club client with thousands of acres and a near unlimited budget for food plots. They plant hundreds of acres every year. But even though 12-13% of their buck population is mature, only very rarely do they ever grow a buck over 140. The ground just doesn't support that. The property is all ridge-and-hollow landscape, and those soils aren't very conducive to growing antlers. In those environments. the average fully mature buck only gross 125 (which interestingly, exactly matches the famous King Ranch in TX). Only a small percentage of mature bucks grow 140+ antlers in that environment.

 

[BSK]

How many years has it been since you significantly increased available food through supplemental plantings and habitat improvement?

Remember, it takes a minimum of 4-5 years to really see a difference in antler scores from improving nutrition. You are hunting the button embryo inside her mother 5 years into the future. That prenatal nutrition to the embryo is probably the most important year of that bucks life when it comes to reaching their genetic potential.

Some truly fascinating research is being done on that. The critical nature of prenatal nutrition and mother doe's health, and the still only partially understood aspect of epigenetics, really hold the key to local deer performance.

 

[TheLBLman]

This needs repeating! BSK is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! Despite few wanting to believe this!
It's spot on!

I've got a club client with thousands of acres and a near unlimited budget for food plots. They plant hundreds of acres every year. But even though 12-13% of their buck population is mature, only very rarely do they ever grow a buck over 140.
The ground just doesn't support that. The property is all ridge-and-hollow landscape, and those soils aren't very conducive to growing antlers. In those environments. the average fully mature buck only gross 125 (which interestingly, exactly matches the famous King Ranch in TX). Only a small percentage of mature bucks grow 140+ antlers in that environment.

Also, when BSK says "fully" mature buck, he's not talking about a 3 1/2-yr-old buck.
Not sure if BSK will agree, but to me "fully" mature begins at 5 1/2.

Add to the above reality that we hunters can be our own worse enemies when we "high grade" the antlers of our best young bucks, killing them at 2 1/2 & 3 1/2 (sometimes 4 1/2) before they can become a truly top-end "fully" mature buck.

Even with thousands of acres under good "management", few places anywhere in TN can produce many bucks breaking 150, with or without lots of food plots & supplemental feedings.

In fact, not even Tennessee's Ames' Plantation, with over 18,000 acres of intense deer management, great crops, great habitat, better soil than the "ridge & hollow" areas ---- still produces very few bucks scoring 150 or more.
It just ain't happening in Tennessee.