The myth of the old spike

[BSK]

Back during the raging debates about antler restrictions, the question would always be thrown out about how to deal with "old spikes." Personally, I thought the idea of the "old spike" was a myth. Outside of the Gulf Coast beach sand environments, where antler growth is very poor, I had never seen an old spike, especially not in the MidSouth. Until now. Just picked this buck on video. I don't think he's a super old buck that has regressed, but he's obviously mature. Opinions on why he has this rack? Perhaps damage to his skull plate or pedicles?

 

[megalomaniac]

I'm not sure he's mature, awfully hunched up in the video making him look bigger. I do think he is 3.5 and won't amount to anything in the future.

As far as his antlers, I'd suspect he is just at the bottom end of the gene pool. I've never seen a buck that injured BOTH pedicles, but I'm sure that does happen and is a possibility.

That's the kind of deer that needs to be removed before he starts fighting in earnest with other bucks. The shape of his rack would fit perfecty inside another bucks rack and his antler tips will be going straight into the eyes of his opponent.

 

[BSK]

Other videos suggest he's at least 4 1/2, but he doesn't have any of the characteristics of an "old" buck. His face still looks lean.

Honestly, I've never seen a rack like that in TN.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Looks no older than 2.5 to me in that video. If that was all I had to go on, with looking at the neck and brisket, and other characteristics there is no way I would guess he was any older. He does have a "young" face too.

He could be just big enough to do fatal damage to other bucks. He needs to go.

In 2016, I think, we had a buck with no antlers fighting with and running off 2.5 year old and younger bucks. He was big, guessed him at 3.5. The following year we had what we believe was the same deer with a rack that was shredded by the time the juvenile hunt opened. We saw the deer several times and had hundreds of pics of him. Before he started fighting he was messed up on his right side, but left side was perfect. Then in 2018 thought he was back, but this time his left side was messed up and right side was nice. We couldn't decide if he was the same deer. Both had a notch in the right ear. The deer in 17 developed an access on his right side that we watched grow to the size of a golf ball. It eventually went down by early January. My wife killed the deer in 2018 and his teeth showed he had an abscess right side. We concluded the chances of there being two different deer with these similarities was extremely unlikely and that it had to be the same deer.

My point in that, is that when deer sustain injuries to both the antlers and to their bodies from fighting, their antlers can do some funky stuff. Dr Leonard Lee Rue wrote about contralateral condition from body injuries, and I understood that injuries to antlers could hold memory, but I never would have guessed a deer to have their antler characteristics with messed up to change sides.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Back during the raging debates about antler restrictions, the question would always be thrown out about how to deal with "old spikes." Personally, I thought the idea of the "old spike" was a myth. Outside of the Gulf Coast beach sand environments, where antler growth is very poor, I had never seen an old spike, especially not in the MidSouth. Until now. Just picked this buck on video. I don't think he's a super old buck that has regressed, but he's obviously mature. Opinions on why he has this rack? Perhaps damage to his skull plate or pedicles?

Watched your video again with it zoomed in, and rethinking that he is possibly a 3.5 year old. After someone kills him let us know how old he really is.

 

[BSK]

You all must grow some super-fat 2 1/2 year-olds!

He's mature:

 

[backyardtndeer]

You all must grow some super-fat 2 1/2 year-olds!

He's mature:

Watching the video on my phone, it kept buffering putting the spinning wheel on part of my screen. I rewatched your video when I had more time and let it completely load and zoomed in. I do think the deer is 3.5 after watching again. But that is my guess based on what I could see.

 

[BSK]

I think what is fooling people is the fact that buck isn't putting on muscle for the rut, which suggests he has some sort of hormonal problem (which might have something to do with his antlers).

The only scientifically proven measurement that can determine buck age in trail-cam photos is the ratio of chest depth to front leg length. The strength of this system is that it works summer and fall. As buck testosterone increases dramatically as the rut approaches, causing bucks to increase muscle mass dramatically, a buck's chest does not get much deeper. Their shoulders get more muscular (bucks get wider across the shoulders) and their necks put on a massive amount of muscle (as do their hams), but the shoulder to brisket height doesn't change much.

For yearling bucks, the ratio of front leg length is almost 3 times that of chest depth (legs make up almost 75% of the total height from bottom of hoof to top of shoulders). The front legs appear shorter the older the buck gets. By the time the buck is 4 1/2, the ratio is 50/50, with font legs being about as tall as the chest is deep. Once the legs are shorter than the chest depth, the buck is 5 1/2+.

Take another look at that second video I posted. The buck's chest (top of shoulder to bottom of brisket) is deeper than his front legs are long.

 

[backyardtndeer]

The only scientifically proven measurement that can determine buck age in trail-cam photos is the ratio of chest depth to front leg length.

See, I am looking at exactly that in the first video, and on my screen it looks like his front legs are longer than his chest is deep. Maybe my eyes are fooling me.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Take another look at that second video I posted. The buck's chest (top of shoulder to bottom of brisket) is deeper than his front legs are long.

Think that second video is as little deceiving with his neck stretched out. Once he is standing straight, his legs do look longer than his chest is deep.

 

[BSK]

I posted that first video because it's the best look at his antlers. I have about 15 videos of that guy and he's a toad. Chest noticeably deeper than his front legs are long. But he neck shows very little muscle mass. Again, this makes me think he has a hormonal problem, contributing to his his lack of antler development.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

That deer is definitely mature. No doubt about it. But it is SO WEIRD seeing a toad of a body with a such small rack .

 

[ROVERBOY]

I used to know a guy that said he killed one years go that was a spike for 2 years or more. He said he was pretty sure it was the same buck. He finally killed it and sent a jawbone to a biologist. The biologist told him it was a at least 4.5 years old.

 

[ridgerunner235]

Left front foot is messed up

 

[Tailhook]

I vote hormones, looks rather symmetric for an injury. We are confident that there are bearded hens in turkey populations, are we sure that's a buck? Interesting deer for sure. This is a picture of an injured buck with a deformed rack I got on camera last year. Not sure if the injury to his back left foot and right antler happened at the same time.

 

[BSK]

Rear leg injuries often result in opposite-side antler deformations in future years.

 

[backyardtndeer]

Rear leg injuries often result in opposite-side antler deformations in future years.

Contralateral condition.

 

[redblood]

Definitely not a yearling but doesnt seem overly mature by that clip- especially for halloween

 

[DeerCamp]

Other videos suggest he's at least 4 1/2, but he doesn't have any of the characteristics of an "old" buck. His face still looks lean.

Honestly, I've never seen a rack like that in TN.

Curious... would you shoot him as a 5.5 yo with that rack or one similar?

 

[BSK]

Hate to admit it, but you all were right and I was wrong. That buck suddenly reappeared on camera and has been hanging around quite a bit. Clearer video shows he's probably only 3 1/2. In addition, he has a pronounced limp. I think it's the same situation as the buck I killed this year - his severe limp was caused by sloughing hooves from the 2019 EHD outbreak that hit the area hard. And probably the reason for his odd antlers.