Seen a couple nice bucks this evening walking together. How long will these bucks be in the summer pattern? All the bucks I saw have already shed their velvet.
Summer Pattern
- Thread starter buckbstr_1
- Start date
BSK
Well-Known Member
Bucks traveling together isn't really just a "summer" pattern. Outside of the rut, bucks often travel together.
Mike Belt
Well-Known Member
Often times an older buck will still travel with a young buck (or visa versa) during the rut as well. I call them flunkie bucks. If they make it through a suspect area then the older buck may feel safer and do so. If not...well there goes another flunkie.
It is quite common to see bucks together any time of the year, even during the rut. At that time, you will often see a young buck with an older one. As long as a buck poses no competition, the dominant buck will tolerate one or more.
Outside the rut, as BSK said, you often see one or more bucks together. I love hunting the early season when you may have a bachelor group still intact. That is a great time to spar one in. If you have the patience to wait for the dominant one, it can pay off bigtime.
Outside the rut, as BSK said, you often see one or more bucks together. I love hunting the early season when you may have a bachelor group still intact. That is a great time to spar one in. If you have the patience to wait for the dominant one, it can pay off bigtime.
BHC
Well-Known Member
Yes, but bachelor are more common during the summer.. Now that most of the velvet has shed they will travel alone more especially dominate bucks... But they can be seen together anytime. I'd say anytime from now till oct first you'll quit seeing your bachelor groups of bucks you've watched over the summer...
BSK
Well-Known Member
I believe there are really three different types of buck social groupings. The first is the summer bachelor group, which is the largest of the three, often consisting of 5-7 bucks that travel together. The second is usually a social pairing of 2 or 3 bucks of similar age that travel together all year except for the rut. The third is the "toady" situation Mike mentioned, where a mature buck allows a yearling "toady" to run with him even during the rut. And although I hate to anthropomorphize deer, it appears the mature buck uses the young buck as a "shield," with the young buck moving out ahead of the mature buck.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
It's not just yearling bucks that a mature buck will seem to use as a "shield"; I believe it's simply less dominant bucks.BSK said:
Some of our observations may just be happenstance due to the different nature of mature bucks. While it may appear they are using other bucks as shields, it could be they are simply more cautious and don't walk as fast, but happen to be trailing the same hot doe, or happen to just be heading towards the same feeding area, or just using the same trail.
One thing I commonly notice that defies the "shield" theory (although I do agree with the theory) is early morning feeding movements of mature bucks. They are typically first to leave more open areas and head towards bedding cover (with progressively younger bucks following them), while in the late evenings, they are usually last to leave bedding cover and head towards feeding areas.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Another behavior mature bucks are most likely to display is what I call "cutting a diagonal". Let's say both a young buck and a mature buck are both trailing the same hot doe. In most cases, the older buck will be way behind the younger buck (which may be very close to the hot doe wanting nothing to do with him). But say the trail is kinda veering off to one direction (or the doe simply makes a turn to the right or left in her travels) ---- the mature buck will commonly go by his line of sight straight to her, rather than following the trail both the younger buck and doe had just taken.
And, the mature buck often goes from standing motionless to flat out running, catching many hunters totally off-guard, as the hunters may be expecting the mature buck to follow the same trail, yet he just takes off running when and where least expected. Mature bucks will use the obvious "deer trails" much less than other deer, often by "cutting the diagonals", as well as often just walking parallel downwind (and often out of bow range of the trail a bowhunter is watching). Mature bucks do seem to use other deer as "shields" in a variety of ways.
Have you ever seen a group of deer walk across a more open area, then see the mature buck flat out run across it after the other deer have arrived safely on the other side (and been there several minutes)? Is he using the other deer as a "shield" or is this simply his different behavior in how he acts?
And, the mature buck often goes from standing motionless to flat out running, catching many hunters totally off-guard, as the hunters may be expecting the mature buck to follow the same trail, yet he just takes off running when and where least expected. Mature bucks will use the obvious "deer trails" much less than other deer, often by "cutting the diagonals", as well as often just walking parallel downwind (and often out of bow range of the trail a bowhunter is watching). Mature bucks do seem to use other deer as "shields" in a variety of ways.
Have you ever seen a group of deer walk across a more open area, then see the mature buck flat out run across it after the other deer have arrived safely on the other side (and been there several minutes)? Is he using the other deer as a "shield" or is this simply his different behavior in how he acts?
Mike Belt
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I hate that "line of sight" thing. It's happened to me several times but one time is especially vivid in my memory. I could hear chasing and grunting approaching my stand site. A couple of minutes later I had a hot doe come running in almost under my stand before veering off at a right angle and heading away. Down through the timber I saw the buck following her. He was a real dandy. I was mentally getting ready to dig my tag out because I knew he was a dead deer if he followed her trail. He stopped and watched her veering off through the timber and he cut that dreaded diagonal line heading straight towards her rather than coming by my stand and I never got the shot. I hate it when that happens!
You can't convince me that older bucks don't use other deer to their advantage and key off other deer's reactions.
You can't convince me that older bucks don't use other deer to their advantage and key off other deer's reactions.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Wes Parrish said:
Good observations Wes. It makes me uncomfortable to assign "reason" behind any deer behavior. Too often we look at the situation from a human perspective and assign a human-based value that is incorrect.
In very early bow season, when there might be as many as five bucks somewhat together, the dominant buck will use all the other bucks as toadys. I once sparred and tickled in seven bucks in less than 20-minutes all were small until the seventh came in. He was over 142-inches and 5.5 years old. Had I not sat dead still and passed the frist six, I would have never gotten to him.
In addition, had I not known he was in that gruop, I might not have passed up the sixth.
In the Midwest,on many occasions even during the chasing phase, I have seen dominant and young bucks together, both chasing a doe. The dominant buck second in line. Again, he had a decoy but it was obvious they were together-all three. Often, this is the case when you shoot a doe during the rut, especially a hot doe. Many times a younger buck will approach her first. Then, the do0minant buck will appear and take over. That is the one you shoot.
Living with these deer all year has taught me quite a bit what they do in summer and fall.
In addition, had I not known he was in that gruop, I might not have passed up the sixth.
In the Midwest,on many occasions even during the chasing phase, I have seen dominant and young bucks together, both chasing a doe. The dominant buck second in line. Again, he had a decoy but it was obvious they were together-all three. Often, this is the case when you shoot a doe during the rut, especially a hot doe. Many times a younger buck will approach her first. Then, the do0minant buck will appear and take over. That is the one you shoot.
Living with these deer all year has taught me quite a bit what they do in summer and fall.
BSK
Well-Known Member
bowriter said:
A mature buck appears to be able to tell the difference between the smell of a doe approaching estrus versus one that is actually in estrus. As she approaches estrus, a mature buck will allow his "toady" buck to chase her cross-country, as he follows slowly behind at a distance. But once she actually enters estrus, the mature buck forces out the toady.
BHC
Well-Known Member
I think many times around this time of yr. say around 5-6 o'clock deer began to get ready to get up and feed. The difference in how early the dominant buck leaves his bed in many cases may be simply whether or not a younger deer gets up and walks by him to which he casual gets up and follows. I've been getting pictures of a real nice deer over the summer and it is very apparent he does not have a bachelor group or any individual deer he likes to travel with. With out fail except for one night time picture he has always came a min or two behind younger bucks. The thing is its a different one almost everytime... I have a feeling it is that these younger bucks are beginning to travel earlier in the day and as they pass he, already beginning to consider getting up, takes the opportunity to tag along, but soon after leaves the group.., other mature bucks in this same area have not shown the same routine. However this buck is a minimum age of 6.5 yrs old...
BSK
Well-Known Member
Good post BHC. I've often noticed how some very mature to old bucks appear to be loners.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Unlike the young whippersnappers, older males don't waste their time with all the games.BSK said:
BSK
Well-Known Member
Wes Parrish said:Unlike the young whippersnappers, older males don't waste their time with all the games.BSK said:
That is the way I anthropomorphize the situation. The mature buck knows better than to waste all the effort on a doe that is not ready yet.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
BSK said:Wes Parrish said:Unlike the young whippersnappers, older males don't waste their time with all the games.BSK said:
That is the way I anthropomorphize the situation. The mature buck knows better than to waste all the effort on a doe that is not ready yet.
Much like when I was in college and the older guys showed up at the bar around closing time. We had been there for hours. Took us a year or so to figure that one out....much like deer
