So how long has CWD been here?

[SEC]

Obviously we know it has taken at least several years to spread like it has. So how many years has it flown under the radar?

 

[megalomaniac]

At least 3, but probably 5 to 6

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[fairchaser]

This is a question that's been answered by the state but not told as well as the point of origin. It's not a conspiracy or anything and someday they may reveal the answer but not now. I believe our speculations are pretty close. We started seeing a noticeable decline the last 3 seasons at Ames and we keep pretty good data on observations. You could figure, we had it a year or two before that maybe more. I think most people will be shocked at how long it's been here once we know. When you factor that into the geographic gap between us and other positive areas, you realize it didn't walk in here on 4 hooves.

 

[Andy S.]

At least 3, but probably 5 to 6

From my experience of hunting at ground zero for the last 15 years, I would say this is pretty accurate. I started noticing weird buck behavior (finding "suspect" dead bucks late in the hunting season, letting 3.5+ bucks walk to never be seen/heard from again, on 18k acres) and poor fawn recruitment about 2013/2014. This is also about the time I started having trouble finding pockets of deer to hunt, compared to the previous 10 years (2004-2013). As TnD member Mike Belt has said for several years, if deer are present in the immediate area, deer have to make tracks when they move, and the deer sign has continued to dry up over the last 5+ years where I hunt. For example, from 2004-2010, there was this one 1/2 mile stretch of sand ditch that was known for a lot of deer, and a very good chance at a mature buck, just about every year 2004-2013. Myself and several hunters walked this stretch of sand ditch this year in early December (peak rut, cold weather, peak movement) after a rain and could not cut a track. You read that right, not a single track. Very depressing to say the least, considering the deer crossings used to cut out a path on each side of the ditch, like a motorcycle trail if you will. That area has continued to decline over the past 5 years to the point where no one will even waste a day hunting it. This was an area that hunters competed for from 2004-2013.

 

[poorhunter]

This is a question that's been answered by the state but not told as well as the point of origin. It's not a conspiracy or anything and someday they may reveal the answer but not now. I believe our speculations are pretty close. We started seeing a noticeable decline the last 3 seasons at Ames and we keep pretty good data on observations. You could figure, we had it a year or two before that maybe more. I think most people will be shocked at how long it's been here once we know. When you factor that into the geographic gap between us and other positive areas, you realize it didn't walk in here on 4 hooves.

Very interesting last statement, and it really makes sense. Those positive tests are stretched out quite a ways.

 

[MUP]

With all this said above, I think it's all the more reason to stretch out the testing area. Maybe at least every other county West to East across the state, just to see how far it has traveled.

 

[Remington700]

I agree it has been here several years. I do not know how far it has spread from the Ames area. That seems to be the hot spot. I hunt in the middle of Fayette county and have for 25 years. This was the first big change I have noticed. Usually I am tagged out on big bucks before December. This year I did not see but 1 large buck. I did shoot it though. I usually do not see many does and I was covered up with them. I am curious to see what next year brings. I believe this will change hunting for many years to come. I am just curious how at this point. I haven't got my head wrapped around it all yet.

 

[TNRifleman]

This is a question that's been answered by the state but not told as well as the point of origin. It's not a conspiracy or anything and someday they may reveal the answer but not now. I believe our speculations are pretty close. We started seeing a noticeable decline the last 3 seasons at Ames and we keep pretty good data on observations. You could figure, we had it a year or two before that maybe more. I think most people will be shocked at how long it's been here once we know. When you factor that into the geographic gap between us and other positive areas, you realize it didn't walk in here on 4 hooves.

Very interesting last statement, and it really makes sense. Those positive tests are stretched out quite a ways.

I would say that the answer to the original question is that it has been here since the time that deer were imported into TN from a CWD state for breeding purposes. I can see no other explanation for it just popping up hundreds of miles from other known CWD areas. Just to be clear, I am 100% NOT saying that Ames imported deer.

 

[Lost Lake]

I'm very curious as to point of origin and how it got here, and whether that can be ascertained or not, hopefully we will find out.

 

[poorhunter]

I'm very curious as to point of origin and how it got here, and whether that can be ascertained or not, hopefully we will find out.

I don't there is or will be much interest in how it got here, just how to manage it. I think it would be very profitable to know how it did get here to help folks really understand how easily it can get started. Maybe it would drive it home in peoples minds that you DO NOT TRANSPORT ANY PART OF ANY DEER OUT OF A CWD HOT ZONE besides the meat, and maybe antlers.

 

[poorhunter]

I'm wondering if CWD needs to reach a certain level both in individual animals and in the herd to be detected. We went from 0 to 100 faster than John Force or Kenny Bernstein.

 

[TNRifleman]

I'm wondering if CWD needs to reach a certain level both in individual animals and in the herd to be detected. We went from 0 to 100 faster than John Force or Kenny Bernstein.

Well, the easy answer is, if you are not testing for it, you will not find it. I doubt the number of CWD deer has increased exponentially from last year, we just don't have a baseline.

 

[fairchaser]

I would say that the answer to the original question is that it has been here since the time that deer were imported into TN from a CWD state for breeding purposes. I can see no other explanation for it just popping up hundreds of miles from other known CWD areas. Just to be clear, I am 100% NOT saying that Ames imported deer.[/quote

If there is a rumor about that, it's definitely untrue. We've even had experts come speak at our banquet discussing the fallacy that the genetics of a wild deer herd can be manipulated. It can not! Why in the world would we bring in deer from somewhere else? I would bet my life on this fact that Ames never imported live deer from anywhere.

 

[TNRifleman]

I would say that the answer to the original question is that it has been here since the time that deer were imported into TN from a CWD state for breeding purposes. I can see no other explanation for it just popping up hundreds of miles from other known CWD areas. Just to be clear, I am 100% NOT saying that Ames imported deer.[/quote

If there is a rumor about that, it's definitely untrue. We've even had experts come speak at our banquet discussing the fallacy that the genetics of a wild deer herd can be manipulated. It can not! Why in the world would we bring in deer from somewhere else? I would bet my life on this fact that Ames never imported live deer from anywhere.

That's what I am saying. 100% that Ames is NOT bringing in deer but clearly deer were brought into the area by someone. There is no way that Dr. Houston would ever consider that.

I just didn't want some folks who are not familiar with this area to see conversation about bringing deer in and Ames being in the middle and assume they know what happened.

 

[Mike Belt]

I seriously doubt that Ames has ever imported any deer. It would accomplish nothing. I've read more accounts for blame being directed towards high fence operations importing deer and I agree to a point. I'm leaning towards the disease being imported from hunters dumping carcasses from infected areas or possibly water run off from infected high fence areas more so than deer escaping from high fence operations. Either way it's a moot point. It's here and our deer are infected and spreading it through the herd and it's filtering into areas outside the epicenter. I don't know the specifics on these deer operations but I would suspect they're breeding for bucks. Is it possible that when their does are bred and they're dropping unwanted female fawns that they turn them lose? I sure wish there was a cut and dried remedy.

 

[fairchaser]

I would say that the answer to the original question is that it has been here since the time that deer were imported into TN from a CWD state for breeding purposes. I can see no other explanation for it just popping up hundreds of miles from other known CWD areas. Just to be clear, I am 100% NOT saying that Ames imported deer.[/quote

If there is a rumor about that, it's definitely untrue. We've even had experts come speak at our banquet discussing the fallacy that the genetics of a wild deer herd can be manipulated. It can not! Why in the world would we bring in deer from somewhere else? I would bet my life on this fact that Ames never imported live deer from anywhere.

That's what I am saying. 100% that Ames is NOT bringing in deer but clearly deer were brought into the area by someone. There is no way that Dr. Houston would ever consider that.

I just didn't want some folks who are not familiar with this area to see conversation about bringing deer in and Ames being in the middle and assume they know what happened.

I agree TNrifleman. It got here from a live deer imported into the area and either escaped or released through ignorance. We are all gonna pay dearly for it. It was only a matter of time anyway. But it would have been nice to put it off for a decade or two.

 

[MUP]

Myself, I'm not so concerned with how it got here, or where it's been, but rather where it's headed.

 

[diggerak]

Same here mup. It's always been here it will stay here and it's headed to cost hunters and fisherman lots of money. Beuracrats will make money off of this.

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[JCDEERMAN]

I think it has stretched much farther than the "hot zones". A lot farther than most realize. Just my .02

 

[TDW05]

I have my suspicions that it's in the east. Noticeable less deer sightings this past season and buddy of mine found 18+ dead deer before season. That's just the ones that were found and in 1 area.

 

[mike243]

Killed a very mature doe 4-6 years ago in the harrogot/Tazewell area and they took samples from it,never heard back so assumed all was good,they been cking but if cked online it don't happen

 

[MickThompson]

I have my suspicions that it's in the east. Noticeable less deer sightings this past season and buddy of mine found 18+ dead deer before season. That's just the ones that were found and in 1 area.

There was a well documented hemorrhagic disease outbreak in eastern TN and eastern KY recently. Mass casualty event across a broad geographic area isn't how CWD normally presents.


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[TN Whitetail Freak]

6 years, I'm sure I've ate about 80 lbs of CWD meat. It was damn good too.

 

[ronnycl]

Since 2013-2014 based on fawn recruitment rates in my opinion. I thought it was due to the damage of the 3 doe a day mentality, but I was wrong. I have written letters in the past to the comminision regarding fewer deer sighting and requesting to reduce doe harvest limits.

 

[TDW05]

pretty interesting....

https://www.qdma.com/this-cwd-map-spell ... r-hunting/

 

[BULL MOOSE]

At least 3, but probably 5 to 6

From my experience of hunting at ground zero for the last 15 years, I would say this is pretty accurate. I started noticing weird buck behavior (finding "suspect" dead bucks late in the hunting season, letting 3.5+ bucks walk to never be seen/heard from again, on 18k acres) and poor fawn recruitment about 2013/2014. This is also about the time I started having trouble finding pockets of deer to hunt, compared to the previous 10 years (2004-2013). As TnD member Mike Belt has said for several years, if deer are present in the immediate area, deer have to make tracks when they move, and the deer sign has continued to dry up over the last 5+ years where I hunt. For example, from 2004-2010, there was this one 1/2 mile stretch of sand ditch that was known for a lot of deer, and a very good chance at a mature buck, just about every year 2004-2013. Myself and several hunters walked this stretch of sand ditch this year in early December (peak rut, cold weather, peak movement) after a rain and could not cut a track. You read that right, not a single track. Very depressing to say the least, considering the deer crossings used to cut out a path on each side of the ditch, like a motorcycle trail if you will. That area has continued to decline over the past 5 years to the point where no one will even waste a day hunting it. This was an area that hunters competed for from 2004-2013.

I suppose it makes sense now. Lack of deer sightings from hammering the does was the biggest complaint from members that I recall. The buck harvest has decreased for last few years. Since every deer is weighed, were there not any low weights or erratic behaviors observed?

 

[BULL MOOSE]

This is a question that's been answered by the state but not told as well as the point of origin. It's not a conspiracy or anything and someday they may reveal the answer but not now. I believe our speculations are pretty close. We started seeing a noticeable decline the last 3 seasons at Ames and we keep pretty good data on observations. You could figure, we had it a year or two before that maybe more. I think most people will be shocked at how long it's been here once we know. When you factor that into the geographic gap between us and other positive areas, you realize it didn't walk in here on 4 hooves.

Don't underestimate the ability for beuracrats to conspire.. Or, politicians and the wealthy to do as they please.

 

[Andy S.]

At least 3, but probably 5 to 6

From my experience of hunting at ground zero for the last 15 years, I would say this is pretty accurate. I started noticing weird buck behavior (finding "suspect" dead bucks late in the hunting season, letting 3.5+ bucks walk to never be seen/heard from again, on 18k acres) and poor fawn recruitment about 2013/2014. This is also about the time I started having trouble finding pockets of deer to hunt, compared to the previous 10 years (2004-2013). As TnD member Mike Belt has said for several years, if deer are present in the immediate area, deer have to make tracks when they move, and the deer sign has continued to dry up over the last 5+ years where I hunt. For example, from 2004-2010, there was this one 1/2 mile stretch of sand ditch that was known for a lot of deer, and a very good chance at a mature buck, just about every year 2004-2013. Myself and several hunters walked this stretch of sand ditch this year in early December (peak rut, cold weather, peak movement) after a rain and could not cut a track. You read that right, not a single track. Very depressing to say the least, considering the deer crossings used to cut out a path on each side of the ditch, like a motorcycle trail if you will. That area has continued to decline over the past 5 years to the point where no one will even waste a day hunting it. This was an area that hunters competed for from 2004-2013.

I suppose it makes sense now. Lack of deer sightings from hammering the does was the biggest complaint from members that I recall. The buck harvest has decreased for last few years. Since every deer is weighed, were there not any low weights or erratic behaviors observed?

Two things with our bucks that have made me scratch my head for the last five years or so:

1. Our top end buck weights (dressed) have been lower, especially if you look at number of bucks dressing north of 160. For example, from 2004-2013. we killed more bucks that dressed north of 160 lbs, and definitely more that dressed north of 180 lbs, and the occasional one that dressed north of 200 lbs. Now, we are lucky to kill 2-3 that dress north of 160. This year we were killing 4.5 year old bucks (AT LEAST 4.5 since we are using TR&W Method) and they were dressing 130 lbs, and the big eye opener this year was a few of our 3.5 year old bucks dressed 85-95 lbs. You guessed it, they were positive for CWD.

2. Our top end buck gross scores have been lower, again, especially if you look at number of bucks north of 130" gross. Early on, 2004-2010 or so, we killed more bucks (shear number) and the top 5% of gross scoring bucks was higher than the top 5% of gross scoring bucks in the last five years or so. Early on, I seriously thought I had a shot at a buck grossing north of 155", due to trail cam pics and others killing them occasionally, both on the property and on the neighboring property. Now, a more realistic goal for a top end gross scoring buck is 140" or so.

A few things worth pointing out. As you mentioned, I chalked most of this up to us hammering the does (180/year) for 15 years, but I was scratching my head along the fringes/borders, because I knew some of those clubs/guys were not hammering the does, but the deer were just not there as they once were. Remember me mentioning finding "pockets" of deer to hunt. I used to could find pockets everywhere (2004-2008), then the pockets were spread out (2009-2013), and then it got downright hard to find pockets holding deer from 2014-present, with some years being worse than others based on land use (crops), climate, and whether or not be had an acorn crop or not. Another thing worth pointing out about the number of bucks killed over the years is we had a lower gross score minimum in the early years (2004-2008), when we had more deer (deer density), thus it only makes sense that we killed more bucks, more good bucks, and more top end bucks back then. It was a function of the number of deer (deer density), as well as the health of the deer (pre-CWD).

Bottom line to all of those that want to listen: our quality of deer, both in shear numbers (deer density), and top end body weight and gross score have continued to plummet over the last five years. Most hunters want to see deer while afield (typically a function of deer density, rut or not rut, hunting pressure and daytime temps), and they want to have a reasonable opportunity for a buck that makes them happy. For me, those two things are getting harder and harder to come by without a ton of devotion, hours scouting, and hours on stand.

 

[Andy S.]

Since 2013-2014 based on fawn recruitment rates in my opinion.

I could not agree more. Based on my trail cam pics, as well as numerous other members (we have 75 or so ), over the past 5 years, the fawn recruitment rates have been dismal. We had a couple of new members make this statement this year: "do the does up here breed?"

What they were getting at were how many does they had on trail camera WITHOUT a single fawn, and many times it would be 3-4 adult does on trail cameras WITHOUT a single fawn. They went on to say that almost ALL of the does they had on camera on another piece of property had does with them this year. Of course, that piece of property was in another county that is currently not in the CWD Zone.

 

[Biggun4214]

As far as testing TWRA has been testing deer for at least 3 years. Some at checking stations and some at processors. Samples were also collected from road kill deer and sick deer as well.