Selling of duck blinds...

[Southern Sportsman]

I have not seen one response that does anything other than say it should not be legal.

If you really think that none of the responses in this thread has offered a legitimate explanation for why it is and should be illegal, either you haven't read all of the responses, or you've already decided that there is no explanation good enough to convince you.

You obviously think there is no problem with buying and selling blinds. I understand your position. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. Several people have explained the other side of the argument quite well. You don't agree with it. And that's perfectly fine. I argue for a living so I'm real comfortable with there being multiple sides to every debate. But don't pretend that the other side doesn't exist just to convince yourself that your side is the right side.

 

[tickweed]

My thought on it is akin to places like Thorny WMA. If the person who drew it is not there, it goes un-hunted. If the guy who drew the blind gets delayed for any reason (ie not familiar, wasn't able to recon ahead of time etc....) so he doesn't have locals to argue with about when shooting light was.

No I don't think selling blinds should be legal.

I like this idea. A way to relieve maybe a little pressure. And I agree, I turned down 12,000 at big sandy one year, so it shouldn't be legal.

 

[younggun308]

I don't like the idea of "no hopping" in places that already restrict hunting pressure to less than a week. Our Chickamauga blinds mostly go unhunted on Thursdays and Fridays, because unless the person who drew it is there, nobody can hunt it. It's already unpressured the rest of the weekdays Seems to me a bit overdone for a set of units that only have stakes in the ground (with the exception of one blind location). Would love to be able to hop them.

 

[flyinpro]

You sound like a liberal politician who says I don't think it should be legal for anyone to own a gun. No valid reason, I just think anyone should be able to.

No a liberal is one who doesn't like the laws in place and their arguments are based on " Feelings". In fact selling something that belongs to the public is illegal in most cases and in this case it's publicly owned duck blinds.

Blind hopping causes arguments that too many hunters are facing these days just because of the current civil discord.
I just want to hunt and not feel like I need to defend myself because some local redneck punks feel entitled.

We feel different on the issue, but calling someone you don't know a liberal because your panties are in a wad doesn't make your argument. The main reason we've arrive at this change is because of the issues with the current system.

 

[Headhunter]

No a liberal is one who doesn't like the laws in place and their arguments are based on " Feelings". In fact selling something that belongs to the public is illegal in most cases and in this case it's publicly owned duck blinds.

Blind hopping causes arguments that too many hunters are facing these days just because of the current civil discord.
I just want to hunt and not feel like I need to defend myself because some local redneck punks feel entitled.

We feel different on the issue, but calling someone you don't know a liberal because your panties are in a wad doesn't make your argument. The main reason we've arrive at this change is because of the issues with the current system.

I fully understand why selling blinds is illegal, at least just flat out selling them. To me if the drawing is fair and not rigged in any way at all, I don't care what someone does with a blind they draw. If I got a blind, especially one that was thought to be a good one, it would take a lot for me to sell it and then it would have to be enough to pay to duck hunt somewhere that I had a chance to really kill ducks. And if someone legally and fairly draws a blind, I don't care what they do with it. For myself, I don't have the money to buy a blind and even if I did the very last place I would buy one is on public land in Tennessee. I would pay to hunt somewhere that has ducks, Arkansas, South Dakota, Canada, etc.

And every single duck hunter that I have talked to believes the new proposal is a liberal pipe dream, socialism at its finest. I didn't get a blind, I don't get drawn, I cannot get the blind I want, "it is not fair", etc. The guy at the TWRA wildlife division even told me that was the main reason, to make it fair for everyone. Also they surveyed about 10 percent of hunters to come up with this proposal. That is a good way to make a decision for 100 percent of the duck hunters, ask 10 percent of them. What a joke and who decides which hunters to ask and what to ask?

Blind hopping causes arguments, well most anything about duck hunting cause arguments. What next, our blind was HOT last year but this year a different blind is holding ducks so give us access to that blind or we will cry til we get to hunt there to. If you want to hunt a blind you own, be in it before shooting time. That is really easy. Personally, even if the owners are not in it by legal shooting time, I most likely leave even if asked to stay. Depends on the situation, if only 1 or maybe 2 owners show up, but if several show up, I for sure leave and would only stay if invited. If I own a blind and I am not there by shooting time, then I expect there may be company, not a problem.

My "panties" are not in a wad about selling blinds because I don't care.

The new proposals though are a joke and travesty and I guess make it easy for me, no more duck hunting in Tennessee, well not from an area that you have to hunt from a blind. There are areas that you are not required to hunt from a blind, killed a ton of ducks to at different times, and when the ducks show up, I will hunt there but the areas with blinds, won't even try with the new proposals.

 

[Headhunter]

It is pretty simple, Sam. The Commission made the decision years ago that the opportunity to hunt these WMA Duck blinds belonged to the public at large and that the selling of blinds favored a rich few. They passed a Rule and Regulation that was reviewed by the state legislature that made such selling illegal.

You obviously disagree with the rule, and, that is certainly your right. If it bothers you as much as it apparently does, I would highly suggest you be at the Commission meeting next week in Franklin to voice your views to the Commission and ask them to change that regulation.

Right or wrong, that is the way the system works.

If a guide draws a blind, is he allowed to guide out of it?

 

[Headhunter]

It is pretty simple, Sam. The Commission made the decision years ago that the opportunity to hunt these WMA Duck blinds belonged to the public at large and that the selling of blinds favored a rich few. They passed a Rule and Regulation that was reviewed by the state legislature that made such selling illegal.

You obviously disagree with the rule, and, that is certainly your right. If it bothers you as much as it apparently does, I would highly suggest you be at the Commission meeting next week in Franklin to voice your views to the Commission and ask them to change that regulation.

Right or wrong, that is the way the system works.

I don't care if someone sells a blind or not so I sure don't care about the law. I haven't got the money to worry about it and if I did I sure would never buy a blind on public land in Tennessee.

So long work doesn't get in the way, I do plan to be there about the proposed changes though.

I don't think you had anything to do with it, but that is another pile of crap to, why they do have meetings to change regs when many of the people who care cannot attend? I guess the commissioners are wealthy and can meet whenever they want, sure seems like they would meet when those that work for a living could attend.

 

[TAFKAP]

How about this......

You can't sell something you don't own. Making thousands of dollars on state property, by virtue of purchasing a license and having your name pulled from a barrel, is profiting from your opportunity.

Offering "Opportunity" is why the Commission is doing all this....because people sell theirs. Opportunity is a concept, and it's about as subjective as anything. Some folks perceive no opportunity, while others sell theirs like a prostitute. No difference really. Not a matter of moral vs. not moral. It's illegal to sell something you don't own.

 

[hard county]

How about this......

You can't sell something you don't own. Making thousands of dollars on state property, by virtue of purchasing a license and having your name pulled from a barrel, is profiting from your opportunity.

Offering "Opportunity" is why the Commission is doing all this....because people sell theirs. Opportunity is a concept, and it's about as subjective as anything. Some folks perceive no opportunity, while others sell theirs like a prostitute. No difference really. Not a matter of moral vs. not moral. It's illegal to sell something you don't own.

I fully agree.

If you want an opinion!
My opinion would be if you can afford to sell your food stamps then you have no real need for food stamps! I don't know what that has to do with this topic.

The point is, this question needs to be asked and answered.

Is something given free by the government for the purpose of giving everyone an equal opportunity a marketable commodity?

If a crack addict or alcoholic wants to get his meals from a dumpster and sell his food stamps to buy crack or alcohol is that his right? Does he own the food stamps or merely the right to eat that food?

Similarly, do duck hunters own the blind for the season or do they merely own the non-transferable permission to hunt that blind?

 

[scn]

They only own the non-transferable permission to hunt that blind.

 

[OffHand85]

Had a buddy on the shelby county Explorers sheriffs department program, they used him to run underage liquor sales stings. That's a real issue.
I imagine if selling blinds was a real issue for TWRA they would run a sting and catch hunters buying and selling blinds.
if you want to make a donation in my name to StJude or Lebonheur then by all means it's your blind! Doing it for the right reasons is different.
How do we know the first hunters to buy blinds aren't turning around and reselling them or guiding hunts on them? However it works best of luck enjoy your money or your blind mot my business....

 

[Headhunter]

I fully agree.

The point is, this question needs to be asked and answered.

Is something given free by the government for the purpose of giving everyone an equal opportunity a marketable commodity?

If a crack addict or alcoholic wants to get his meals from a dumpster and sell his food stamps to buy crack or alcohol is that his right? Does he own the food stamps or merely the right to eat that food?

Similarly, do duck hunters own the blind for the season or do they merely own the non-transferable permission to hunt that blind?

Do fishing guides own public lakes? They charge people to fish on public lakes. Can you guide for waterfowl on public waters? Do they have to own the water to guide? Sorry I don't see the comparison.

 

[Headhunter]

How about this......

You can't sell something you don't own. Making thousands of dollars on state property, by virtue of purchasing a license and having your name pulled from a barrel, is profiting from your opportunity.

Offering "Opportunity" is why the Commission is doing all this....because people sell theirs. Opportunity is a concept, and it's about as subjective as anything. Some folks perceive no opportunity, while others sell theirs like a prostitute. No difference really. Not a matter of moral vs. not moral. It's illegal to sell something you don't own.

Guides make a living on waters they don't own. What is different in guiding from a blind that was drawn or "selling" a blind that was drawn to someone to hunt?

So fishing guides and I assume hunting guides, buy a license, in this day and time you should have some certification, for fishing a captain's license for liability, but they are making thousands of dollars on state and federal property they don't own. Where does that fall?

I understand that you can't sell what you don't own, but a person it NOT selling the blind, , in some way whoever "buys the blind" is gaining priority to hunt if they are there before legal shooting time, but the blind is not technically being sold.

The owner of the blind, at least that is the term I have always herd, owns the right to hunt that blind if the owner(s) are there before legal shooting time. they "own" the hunting rights that morning, so saying they are selling something they do not own is not correct. A game warden I am sure, in a dispute will ask "who owns the blind" when no one actually owns the blind, the own the priority to hunt it if they are there before legal shooting time.

I don't know if it is legal to guide from a state duck blind, but if it is legal and I get a good blind, I may be "guiding" from it and make a killing hopefully.

 

[TNGunsmoke]

I don't feel like the fishing guide comments are relevant, they are selling access to their knowledge of the places they are guiding, not to something physically tangible like a blind or blind site. They may take you to one location this week, and the very next day to a completely different area because the wind shifted, the water rose or dropped, a log drifted through, or any number of different reasons. A blind spot is there and accessible for a 60 day season, and the next duck season it is still there, but someone else may have access to it.

 

[Smashdn]

If a "rich guy" can afford to buy licenses for and plant 500 of his people in the draw is that a bad thing?

 

[Headhunter]

They only own the non-transferable permission to hunt that blind.

Non-transferrable, so anyone who does not "sign on" cannot hunt the blind? I thought this was all about being fair. If no one is there by legal shooting time then it is open, so are blind hoppers illegal? I am not a lawyer but I bet a good one could have a field day with the terminology and the looseness with which the regs have been enforced over the years.

I haven't attended drawings in a while, but I have learned a lot happens that I had no clue about, and happens in the wide open. Not directed at you, but why are those actions not being addressed? I have been told when a person gets drawn, people are telling him which blinds they will buy or offering to buy a blind he chooses as the person is walking up to select a blind. Surely there is way to police that. Like I said I don't care what a person does once fairly drawn, but messing with process of drawing is wrong. Not sure how to police multiple licenses being purchased for non hunters just to up the chances of being drawn, but that is not right either. And that has been happening (that I know of) since the late 1980's.

 

[hard county]

Non-transferrable, so anyone who does not "sign on" cannot hunt the blind? I thought this was all about being fair. If no one is there by legal shooting time then it is open, so are blind hoppers illegal? I am not a lawyer but I bet a good one could have a field day with the terminology and the looseness with which the regs have been enforced over the years.

I haven't attended drawings in a while, but I have learned a lot happens that I had no clue about, and happens in the wide open. Not directed at you, but why are those actions not being addressed? I have been told when a person gets drawn, people are telling him which blinds they will buy or offering to buy a blind he chooses as the person is walking up to select a blind. Surely there is way to police that. Like I said I don't care what a person does once fairly drawn, but messing with process of drawing is wrong. Not sure how to police multiple licenses being purchased for non hunters just to up the chances of being drawn, but that is not right either. And that has been happening (that I know of) since the late 1980's.

I think if it's the only way to stop buying and selling of blinds then, yes, blind hopping should end. If it's an 8 man blind then 8 twra numbers get that blind and noone else.

But again, I'd be happier if the government got out of blind business altogether. I lease a place to duck hunt because I don't know of one wma that isn't so toxic I'm unwilling to take my child hunting there. Eliminate the blinds, grid off the wmas in 50 acre quadrants, 1000 yard minimum between hunters- hunt from boat blinds or chest waders.

I wouldn't even care if they eliminated and sold off wmas. It's a grossly mismanaged system that hurts hunting p.r. Give that money to farmers to flood and lease land. Lower everyone's lease prices and at least the government would get the lease money to give to farmers.

But the system now where hunters are forced to pay into a wma they can't take their kid to because of boat ramp drama and people spend thousands to buy blinds from the redneck lottery winners... It just doesn't work.

 

[THE DUKE]

The guided fishing is no different they don't own the lakes.

 

[woodswise]

The system was not designed to enrich people. It was designed to fairly distribute hunting opportunity. When you try to circumvent that intention you are clearly trying to game the system. It doesn't matter whether you buy granny and your kids license or hand out a cash dividend for acquiring the opportunity it's the same thing just a different method.

 

[flyinpro]

That's another issue I only saw once, boat ramp drama from locals who are looking to blind hoop. Caused us to be late, after shooting light all the while wondering if those red necks disguised as duck hunters might beat us there before we could get there. Was invited once 11 years ago & will never go again unless I draw one and I've only gone to the hand held circus twice since then.

I don't like blind hopping or selling the rights to them.