Road hunting v/s spot and stalk

[RUGER]

Another thread has had me thinking alot the last couple of days.

From everything I have read from law enforcement this is what I understand to be true.

In TN, if you ride up to property you can legally hunt, see a deer, back the truck up, get out and go stalk down a fence row and kill that deer you are guilty of road hunting, or whatever the official term in the rules is.


Now, in many states "out west" this is a perfectly acceptable means of hunting.
Ride around, scout, spot then stalk.

Why is it seen as such a bad practice (ethically) in TN but perfectly acceptable in another state?
Is it just the mere fact that it is illegal?
If it were legal, would it still be "wrong"?

Just curious what everyone thinks.
I put it in here so maybe it can be discussed without all the bs.

 

[landman]

I know from hunting in Alaska you can not hunt
The day you fly, mainly to keep someone from
flying until they see let's say a Moose an land
Down wind on a creek bed, slip up and kill it.

At the same time I've hunted Colorado in the plains
Where the outfitter had 80,000 acres leased
in a unit that covered 3 counties. Some tracts
had a section (640 acres) some had 10 sections
together, we covered 300-350 miles a day
Stopping up to 2 miles from the tracts to glass.
At times we would get out a hit high spots away
from roads to glass.

The following year different story the lease was one
tract with one high spot that covered everything.
Both ways is a common practice there.

But in TN to do what your saying is different ,
what was my intent, to ride for a couple of hours
looking for deer to shoot? Or on the way to another
Job site see a buck on my lease, go back get
Gear on stalk 150 yards down field row and kill him
or have my buddy drop me off an I cross the fence
to get "away" from the road and shoot. To me that's
2 different things, am I wrong , what's legal in other
states has nothing to do with TN, just wanted to point
that out.

 

[RUGER]

landman,
Yes I fully understand nothing in other states have anything to do with TN I was just wanting some discussion.

Also, say it isn't a happenstance.. you specifically ride to different areas that you can hunt.
You do so specifically to spot deer then stalk them.

Some would say it is the same thing as you describe out West.

I am not trying to stir anything and IN NO WAY am I condoning breaking laws nor am I downgrading TWRA in any shape form or fashion.. just thinking outloud.

 

[TENN.BOY]

So let me get this straight ,the law states if I driving down the road by my property that i own or even lease and there is a buck standing in the field I can't pull up to the gate and sneak up behind my barn within range and kill that buck ?

 

[RUGER]

TENN.BOY... the way I understand the laws posted... no, you can't.

I can't seem to wrap my head around part of it that "depends on whether you were specifically looking for deer or not" part.

Kinda confusing to me.

 

[RUGER]

I guess my main train of thought on this issue is how funny it is that one thing can be pefectly legal AND ethical but in a different area of the country it is unethical as well as ILLEGAL.

Kinda like deer dogs, baiting etc.

 

[lung-buster]

I bet there were a lot of folks in the dark about this subject until it was brought up here.

 

[lung-buster]

Would it make a difference if you were in a house trailer that still had the wheels attached

 

[RUGER]

I bet there were a lot of folks in the dark about this subject until it was brought up here.

I can assure you I was.

 

[Hawk]

Suppose I had entered my property to hunt and saw a legal deer after I had entered & had closed the gate. BAM! Legal?

 

[in the dog house]

Im totally confused. If I am going to our farm to hunt and I see a deer or a group of deer 300 yards at the back of one of the fields. Can I not park and then stalk and kill the deer........

 

[TNDeerGuy]

I have many thoughts about this. First, many would think completely different about this if it was legal. With so many of us trying be good, law-abiding stewards of our sport, it irks many of us to have that undone by those that do not follow the law like we do�I think that is the biggest problem. If that situation from the other post would have been legal, I doubt many would have a problem with it�in fact some of us might even use the same tactic. However, it's not legal and therefore such behavior should be frowned upon.

To me there is a huge difference between out west and here. Out west it actually takes some skill, and a lot of things can happen, getting in position to kill an animal that you saw 1 mile away on a prairie or 1/2 mile up a mountainside while "scouting" from your vehicle. Here you often are limited by terrain and if you see a deer, chances are the deer is already in range, a couple of hundred yards or closer, and all you have to do is stop, get out walk off the road and the right of way and shoot. There is not a lot of skill, or woodsmanship, involved to do that�actually, the same amount of skill as hunting a small high-fence area.

Then you have the moral/ethical portion of the argument, legal or not, but that is oriented and unfair to others due to our morals/ethics are personal to us as individuals. To be fair, we can only judge the legal side of this argument, as that is the only thing that is concrete. In this case, it is wrong because it is illegal, but it should be illegal here because it gives us an unfairly balanced advantage over the animal.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

Suppose I had entered my property to hunt and saw a legal deer after I had entered & had closed the gate. BAM! Legal?

According to the law and everything that has been posted by the TWRA guys, that would be illegal if you spotted it in your vehicle and if you shot at THAT deer. Now if you drove in and parked on your property and got out and then saw THAT deer and took the shoot, I would assume that would be legal.

The whole thing was written to enforce road-hunting laws in all forms, in an effort to eliminate or minimize the practice, that so many of us complain about all the time. In this case, the baby has to be thrown out with the bath water to eliminate loopholes they can get through.....which obviously doesn't work when you mix a silver-tongued lawyer and a spineless D.A.!

 

[Roost 1]

So....it ok to shoot a deer or turkey out the door of your house, but its illegal to spot one from a vehicle and then stalk it and kill it.....Makes no sense to me...

 

[TNDeerGuy]

So....it ok to shoot a deer or turkey out the door of your house, but its illegal to spot one from a vehicle and then stalk it and kill it.....Makes no sense to me...

I see what your saying, but most people that shoot one out of their house or on their porch will take a responsible shot shooting on their property and 99.9% of the time will recover and use the useable parts of the animal�unlike road hunters that may or may not take a irresponsible shot onto land they do not own and often will only recover small parts of the deer....if that.

 

[huntintn]

My 2 cents, If a man is going to his spot and a deer is there waiting he was driving to his spot,not looking for deer. We were riding around looking for deer. Every road hunters story starts like this. Intent is hard to prove this is were hunter ethics take over. I'll do what I feel is right and will live with it. Could have tagged out while working on the farm this year but theres more to it or it would be killing not hunting.

 

[BlountArrow]

I bet there were a lot of folks in the dark about this subject until it was brought up here.

I can assure you I was.

Me three!

 

[TLRanger]

This happened two years ago on Natchez Trace WMA:

Two guys were driving down the a road on the WMA when they spotted some turkeys in a field. They drove past the field, got out a stalked those turkeys. They did not know it but there was a game warden hunting that same flock of turkeys. They did not shoot at the birds but the game warden gave them a ticket for road hunting anyway. They went to court and were found guilty and fined. BTW, I was NOT with them.

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

In TN, if you ride up to property you can legally hunt, see a deer, back the truck up, get out and go stalk down a fence row and kill that deer you are guilty of road hunting, or whatever the official term in the rules is.

Why is it seen as such a bad practice (ethically) in TN but perfectly acceptable in another state?
Is it just the mere fact that it is illegal?
If it were legal, would it still be "wrong"?

Just curious what everyone thinks.
I put it in here so maybe it can be discussed without all the bs.

The first scenerio as you described and from how it was answered by TWRA in a previous thread.... yes a person would be guilty of road hunting.... because they were on a road/in a vehicle when the person saw the animal.

As far as ethical.... that is up to the person and depends on your hunting style.

If it was legal and:

I were a meat hunter looking for freezer meat.... a chance opportunity presents a deer and I am going to capitalize on it. I have limited days to hunt and invest quite abit each year to hunt... to me, it's getting a return on the investment.

I were an antler/mature deer hunter.... again, a chance opportunity presents a huge deer, I am going to capitalize on it.

It were an average deer and no larger than what I have already taken.... and I don't need the meat.... I'd let it walk for more growing time.

Is is the same as sitting on stand in various conditions waiting on a chance encounter.... no. But I still pulled the trigger on a deer and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

With everything we as hunters use today to hunt, scopes, stands, clothing, scent-free products, attractant scents, atv/utv.... how is that not taking advantage of something to kill an animal?

Everyone has their hunting ethics, to each their own. If my above statements offend anyone, I am sorry. If you think bad of me and despise my existance, again I am sorry. It is what it is....

 

[doubledownranch]

Touchy subject, but I'm on a mule deer lease out west. I hunt from daylight to dart from a jeep. I cover between 4-5 thousand acres a day. We spot and stalk from a jeep all day every day. It's the only way to do it if you want to see game and cover some ground. You would only cover a few hundred acres a day in this terrain by foot. And in mule deer country, that wouldn't scratch the surface.

Again, I have to say being out west is a whole different ball game. If you need a vehicle to hunt in Tennessee, you need to work on your hunting skills.

 

[Bone Collector]

In TN, if you ride up to property you can legally hunt, see a deer, back the truck up, get out and go stalk down a fence row and kill that deer you are guilty of road hunting, or whatever the official term in the rules is.

I don't believe that is right. I believe if you go to a spot with the intent to hunt and pull up and see a deer, you can get out and stalk it, because you were going there to hunt, not driving around with the intent to locate game. You didn't use the truck to locate the deer, just to get to the property, and by chance one was standing there.

On the flip side if you drive around looking for deer, whether that be on the road, or just on the farm, and you spot one, then get out and stalk, that is road hunting.

Personally, I feel like if you can hunt there, and you happen to see a deer as you drive by and decide to go back or park and stalk, that is your business. IMO no different than walking through the woods and stumbling on some deer feeding, then shooting one.

 

[hunter0925]

On your own property, I don't have a problem with it. Just riding to see deer and then happening upon one, even where it is legal to hunt, and shooting it, I don't agree with. Thing is, the law is the law. We complain about things when they are legal or illegal so I will try and do what is right and roll with the punches.

 

[Roost 1]

Guys drive up and down roads calling turkeys all of the time, especially on public land where roads cut through large tracts. I have seen and heard it numerous times. I always hated that practice but never realized it was not legal.

I don't think it is illegal, or shouldn't be... If so, I have broke the law many times and will continue to do so......I can see why a judge would throw it out and prolly have a talk with GW if cases like this showed up in court very often...

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

I get the whole spot and stalking from the Vehicle law in TN. Its just too dangerous here in the south with dwellings so close in proximity to property lines.

Your "average" road hunter is NOT going to think twice about his back stop or what is beyond his target . Especially if he is fixated on buck fever. This rule might not apply to everyone reading this because I suspect the great majority of the people reading this are probably squared away guys. But think about some of the people that this "might" apply too! Then you probably will agree its a good law.

Out west its a whole different ball game so I can see why the rules are a lot more relaxed for road hunting. Lots of open terrain where miles separate dwellings.

I have been laying in my bed at night and heard gunshots right outside my door from the street. Having deer in my yard all the time I know its not a gangster drive by shooting..they are shooting at deer. Its just been by the grace of god that my house or loved ones have not been hit yet.

 

[Trevor2]

I bet there were a lot of folks in the dark about this subject until it was brought up here.

I can assure you I was.

Me three!

Me four and very hard to believe

 

[tailchaser]

I still don't see how it would be illegal if your on your on land or permission land,get out of your truck and off the road,might not be a sporting way but should not be illegal.now driving down the road and shooting from the road I can see.

 

[timberjack86]

Touchy subject, but I'm on a mule deer lease out west. I hunt from daylight to dart from a jeep. I cover between 4-5 thousand acres a day. We spot and stalk from a jeep all day every day. It's the only way to do it if you want to see game and cover some ground. You would only cover a few hundred acres a day in this terrain by foot. And in mule deer country, that wouldn't scratch the surface.

Again, I have to say being out west is a whole different ball game. If you need a vehicle to hunt in Tennessee, you need to work on your hunting skills.

You can legally do this with an atv in TN.

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

Guys drive up and down roads calling turkeys all of the time, especially on public land where roads cut through large tracts. I have seen and heard it numerous times. I always hated that practice but never realized it was not legal.

I don't think it is illegal, or shouldn't be... If so, I have broke the law many times and will continue to do so......I can see why a judge would throw it out and prolly have a talk with GW if cases like this showed up in court very often...

Below is a post/example made concerning the very idea

This happened two years ago on Natchez Trace WMA:

Two guys were driving down the a road on the WMA when they spotted some turkeys in a field. They drove past the field, got out a stalked those turkeys. They did not know it but there was a game warden hunting that same flock of turkeys. They did not shoot at the birds but the game warden gave them a ticket for road hunting anyway. They went to court and were found guilty and fined. BTW, I was NOT with them.

 

[Roost 1]

Guys drive up and down roads calling turkeys all of the time, especially on public land where roads cut through large tracts. I have seen and heard it numerous times. I always hated that practice but never realized it was not legal.

I don't think it is illegal, or shouldn't be... If so, I have broke the law many times and will continue to do so......I can see why a judge would throw it out and prolly have a talk with GW if cases like this showed up in court very often...

Are you not "chasing" birds from a vehicle if you are calling them? If you hear one and go after it, then you have used the vehicle to locate them?

This is getting tricky.

Borderline, non-sense.
I would think there is a grey area here where LE can use some descretion. I can't see how anyone could be prosecuted if they are somewhere they have permission and are not shooting from the vehicle. I think this law has been written in a way to close loopholes on true poachers/road hunters.
I am prolly wrong, tho.

 

[Nealmeally]

Let's say you been watching a buck from the truck (parked way off the road and not even in sight of a road) come out in a beanfield that you have permission to hunt. You go in the next day and hang a couple stands to try and kill him out of. A few days later you kill him out of one of the stands you hung.. Is this legal??? In TN that is...