Quail

[TheLBLman]

I don't think we can point to loss of habitat as the main cause.

Speaking mainly about Tennessee, in many areas, a loss of good contiguous quail habitat may in fact be the single largest cause of the population decline. Some will say the single biggest cause was the introduction of fescue grass, but then, that was something that also broke up the good contiguous quail habitat.

It's just that even the single largest cause may not be even half the problem.

I think one thing we're only recently discovering is that, to thrive over multiple nesting cycles, quail need a much larger contiguous acreage of at least "good" habitat than was previously thought. A few hundred contiguous acres just may not be enough.

With all the continued increasing housing & industrial subdivisions, along with "clean" farms continuing to break up what was once more contiguous quail habitat, the future for quail remains relatively grim, no matter how much more we find out about what's caused the declinations.

Just because we find out more, doesn't mean we will be able (or willing) to do much differently.

 

[MickThompson]

My rule of thumb- if you can walk 100 yards through it without your ear bleeding from a briar, you're not walking in quail habitat

 

[Uncle Jesse]

That's no surprise. Pen raised birds don't know how to be wild birds. They will have 99% mortality in the wild.

Where is "around here"? All it takes is a few poorly timed mowings (nesting season, late fall through winter) to eliminate cover. If there's no cover, they'll either move or get eaten. Either way they have no reason to come back.

This is good cover. Heard 3 in here. Not many folks will tolerate their place looking this "snakey"
View attachment 75480

Our land borders AEDC WMA. There's 32,000 huntable acres not counting safety zones and such

 

[drake799]

We use to have a lot of sericea in my area. Not
Anymore. Everything is row cropped. Birds started to decline with the loss of the grass it seems like.

 

[poorhunter]

I'v never been convinced that the main problem with quail is habitat loss. As a wildlife biology student at Purdue we helped our major professor collect data and such to figure out why there was such a decline. To be honest though he was more interested is turkey restoration that quail got left to the side as years went by. Anyway, like I said, I never thought habitat loss was the main factor but I'm beginning to think that maybe it is. When I moved to Hickman County I was astounded at how much great habitat there was for quail and I thought for sure I'd be able to hunt some quail here. I've heard one quail since 2011 and I'm outside all the time. So as I'm thinking about quail wondering what may be the problem there's obviously lots of different factors involved, but the decline has been continual for decades. If it were a disease problem then it would be a year or two decline then a recovery. If it were predators the same thing would hold true. If it were a pest same thing. The climate is changing (NOT because of MMGW, just normal fluctuations) but quail don't mind the heat and there's water everywhere in Hickman. So whatever "it" is has to be relatively constant. The decline wasn't an overnight thing like what would happen in a disease outbreak, but slow and steady and constant year after year...kinda like we are seeing now with turkey populations.

 

[WanderingNomad]

I heard the Bobwhite's call yesterday morning here in Sumner Co and it put a smile on my face..

 

[Mattt]

Agree with most here but not all. I spend a lot of time hunting quail. Pretty decent dogs. We are all using what we know to think a patch looks like good habitat and I do the same at my house, but obviously something is off. Here in tn we are finding(in the last 7-8 years) as many of more birds I. Hardwoods than we do in what appears to be good cover. Rhea, Meigs, McMinn co. Are where I hunt locally, spend 35-45 days a season in Kansas/Missouri/Nebraska.filling in hunting here. Can usually flush 2 coveys/day on avg here but that's some mileage going in here. I'll do 10 miles a day easy and do t hunt he evenings. Out west about the same mileage but quadruple the flushes. We are missing something. Anyone figures it out please let me know.lol

 

[TheLBLman]

I'm in general agreement with you poorhunter, but want to elaborate a bit on your thoughts.

So as I'm thinking about quail wondering what may be the problem there's obviously lots of different factors involved, but the decline has been continual for decades. If it were a disease problem then it would be a year or two decline then a recovery. If it were predators the same thing would hold true.

I disagree a little about the predators.
I believe over the decades, not only have quail predators increased, but they have evolved in becoming more efficient at killing quail. To some extent, I believe they evolved to hunt turkeys, particularly young turkeys, DURING DAYTIME, and inadvertently also became more efficient at stumbling into quail.

I'm talking mainly about coyotes & bobcats above. When I was young, areas with lots of quail in Tennessee had very few bobcats and zero coyotes. As bobcat & coyote populations exploded, it was many years, perhaps decades, before they are regularly observed hunting in mid-day. What are they hunting? I believe it's mainly turkeys. But in their daytime pursuit of young turkeys, they stumble into more quail (than they did when they were more nocturnal predators).

Now, yes, the hawks have always only hunted during daytime.
What's changed is that we've had a steady "continual" increase in the sheer number of hawks. Again, when I was young, they were low in numbers, and most were shot on sight if they came around a farmhouse.

Today, we must have somewhere between 10x and 100x more hawks in West TN than going back over 50 years ago when quail were abundant. This raptor increase has been every bit as "continual" over the decades as has the decrease in quail.

 

[TheLBLman]

So whatever "it" is has to be relatively constant. The decline wasn't an overnight thing like what would happen in a disease outbreak, but slow and steady and constant year after year...kinda like we are seeing now with turkey populations.

I agree.
To add to what has been "constant",
there has been a steady increase in raptors, while bobcats & coyote have come from near non-existence to high numbers, while steadily "evolving" to DAYTIME hunt turkeys, which has resulted in their stumbling into more quail.

The other constant has been the progressive increase in insecticide use, along with the progressive decrease in good contiguous quail habitat. Young quail survive on insects. "Clean" farming usually cleans out many the insects as well.

As to why you may be finding more birds now in less than stellar habitat, possibly an adaptation by the surviving quail, as maybe they're more vulnerable to predation in "better" quail habitat? Maybe young quail are more likely to find insects in the woods than in a "clean" farmer's field?

When quail successfully nest in good quail habitat, but there are no insects for those just hatched chicks to eat, they all die.

 

[TheLBLman]

Out west about the same mileage but quadruple the flushes. We are missing something. Anyone figures it out please let me know.lol

We are all missing something, but I do think it's a bit of everything as much as any one thing. In Tennessee, the biggest single factor that began the decline may have been the introduction of fescue hay replacing our native grasses, which would be a type of habitat loss.

I have some friends who quail hunt in several western states (and TN). They say the quail numbers are declining out west as well, just still a lot more quail in western states. My friends who hunt quail in Texas also say the quail numbers there seem to be steadily on the decline (much like the turkey numbers all across the Southeast as well).

 

[poorhunter]

I'm in general agreement with you poorhunter, but want to elaborate a bit on your thoughts.


I disagree a little about the predators.
I believe over the decades, not only have quail predators increased, but they have evolved in becoming more efficient at killing quail. To some extent, I believe they evolved to hunt turkeys, particularly young turkeys, DURING DAYTIME, and inadvertently also became more efficient at stumbling into quail.

I'm talking mainly about coyotes & bobcats above. When I was young, areas with lots of quail in Tennessee had very few bobcats and zero coyotes. As bobcat & coyote populations exploded, it was many years, perhaps decades, before they are regularly observed hunting in mid-day. What are they hunting? I believe it's mainly turkeys. But in their daytime pursuit of young turkeys, they stumble into more quail (than they did when they were more nocturnal predators).

Now, yes, the hawks have always only hunted during daytime.
What's changed is that we've had a steady "continual" increase in the sheer number of hawks. Again, when I was young, they were low in numbers, and most were shot on sight if they came around a farmhouse.

Today, we must have somewhere between 10x and 100x more hawks in West TN than going back over 50 years ago when quail were abundant. This raptor increase has been every bit as "continual" over the decades as has the decrease in quail.

When we were kids we killed all the hawks we could as well as other predators like skunks, opossums and raccoons. Every kid had a .22 and was proficient at killing predators.

On the opposite end of the scale, my dad grew up in North Dakota and he would make a dime as kid destroying pheasant nests and eggs for farmers!

 

[fairchaser]

I hear them and see them quite frequently on Ames Plantation due to their habitat and restocking efforts for field trials. It's a nice reminder of the good ole days when I was a boy and quail were common in most places in Tennessee. The only time I curse them under my breath is when I flush a covey trying to sneak into my stand at daylight. But then I can hear them all morning reconnecting with their characteristic bob, bobwhite yodels.

 

[Mattt]

lbl I totally agree about fescue grass. And also he other factors. I have no idea why hawks are still protected. When I put birds out here over the course of about two weeks the red tails will hang around sometimes 8-9 sitting around looking for birds. Coons, yotes crap the little birds don't stand a chance. As far as the west, they have upward and downward trends they're not in overall decline. The whistle counts that are done in nw Missouri and Kansas tell the story better. Texas started something g like that a few years back but I didn't keep up with it. Kansas spends some money on this and their data is available. Pretty easy to follow the population trends and look at weather factors and habitat loss as they include crp enrollment with their numbers. When crp is up and spring is relatively dry the populations boom.

 

[tellico4x4]

Saw a pair day before yesterday in thinned pines. First time in 20 yrs to that I've seen them on that part of land.Maybe the thinning was good for them!

 

[MickThompson]

Saw a pair day before yesterday in thinned pines. First time in 20 yrs to that I've seen them on that part of land.Maybe the thinning was good for them!

The only thing better than thinning is more thinning

 

[tellico4x4]

Saw a new covey on our place a couple days ago, 10-12 birds!! Pines were thinned & 5th rowed two yrs ago & have a large clover plot that butts up to them. Birds were right on the edge where you'd expect, excited to see!