Uncle Jesse
Well-Known Member
Anybody hearing any quail? Quail would come up in the yard during the summer months when I first moved to the house I'm living in now. That was 2000 and now I don't hear them anywhere around here
Quail
- Thread starter Uncle Jesse
- Start date
We had a flock with nearly 20 birds visit our bird feeders in 2019. The flock didn't live through the summer. Hunters took four bobcats from our farm the following season. I sure miss hearing the quail around the house.
Displaced_Vol
Well-Known Member
Hearing quite a few all over the farm right now. It fluctuates year to year I'd say this is slightly above average. But, I learned that just because you hear them now doesn't mean they'll make it through to the fall. Still nice hearing them though.
One neighbor field is still enrolled in CREP for the next couple years and they mowed almost all of it this spring. It displaced quite a few birds into one of our fence rows. We were walking back to turkey hunt one day and about every 5-10 yards it seemed we were flushing quail out of that fence row, it was wild. First one gives you a heart attack and by the third flush you're starting to walk awful carefully.
One neighbor field is still enrolled in CREP for the next couple years and they mowed almost all of it this spring. It displaced quite a few birds into one of our fence rows. We were walking back to turkey hunt one day and about every 5-10 yards it seemed we were flushing quail out of that fence row, it was wild. First one gives you a heart attack and by the third flush you're starting to walk awful carefully.
Not very often anymore.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Our native bobwhite quail in TN seem to be continuing their steady population decline. In most counties, you'll typically find little more than a remnant population surviving.
I can't put my finger on any single one thing that has driven this declination over such a broad area. But one of the larger factors was the conversion & displacement of so much our native grasses with fescue & Johnson grass.
I can't put my finger on any single one thing that has driven this declination over such a broad area. But one of the larger factors was the conversion & displacement of so much our native grasses with fescue & Johnson grass.
I had a covey on the property when I moved here in 1993 but they most likely got killed by feral cats. Lots of feral cats around.
I do hear them on the neighboring properties on occasion but they are far away.
I do hear them on the neighboring properties on occasion but they are far away.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
I heard quail on our place last summer for the first time in years....also saw a few cross the road last summer near the same area.... hadn't heard any this spring....sure wish they'd make a comeback.
Few years ago we had 8-10 small covey's on our place. Have always tried to leave stuff on edges for them. Last year I saw one lonely rooster 2-3 times. This year I've seen one hen so far & very little whistling...Have about 300 acres of one year old clearcut so hoping they'll increase a little again.
Buzzard Breath
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I've been hearing them where I hunt in Hickman and Lawrence Counties. I'd never heard or seen them at the Hickman farm until a couple weeks ago. I've been hearing them daily while walking around the subdivision in Maury.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Although quail are pretty much "home bodies" most of the time, I believe they may travel considerable distances during their spring mating process, and can take advantage of some better quail habitat.
Unfortunately they apparently need a much larger amount of contiguous good quail habitat in order to thrive, than they might need just to exist for a single generation. While a single covey might do well on only 40 acres of good habitat, it may take over 4,000 acres of good contiguous quail habitat surrounding that 40 acres for quail to thrive in the area. Even where such unusual conditions might exist (in TN), still doesn't seem to be happening.
When I was young, one of my childhood friend's family had a 180-acre mostly row-crop farm we regularly hunted after school. This farm most years had 5 to 7 coveys of quail thriving on it.
As the quail populations seemed to be steadily decreasing over time (1980 - 2010), my childhood friend steadily improved his farm for quail. Unlike the many thousands of acres of surrounding mostly row-crop farms, my friend actually "improved" his fence-row cover, moved to "less clean" farming practices, and even planted plots of lespedeza and several native grasses.
His farm today has much more abundant and better quail habitat than it had back in the 1960's & 70's, when there were a lot of quail in that TN county. But for over a recent decade, he had zero quail on his farm. In 2019, a pair appeared and produced a covey. In 2020, there was again none. This spring, he says he's heard some distant birds whistling on the adjoining property, but has yet to see one this year on his property.
I hope our native TN bobwhites don't go extinct, but they've sure been trending that direction in most our counties.
For those highly interested . . . . . .
https://bringbackbobwhites.org/about-us/nbtc/nbtc-annual-meeting/
Unfortunately they apparently need a much larger amount of contiguous good quail habitat in order to thrive, than they might need just to exist for a single generation. While a single covey might do well on only 40 acres of good habitat, it may take over 4,000 acres of good contiguous quail habitat surrounding that 40 acres for quail to thrive in the area. Even where such unusual conditions might exist (in TN), still doesn't seem to be happening.
When I was young, one of my childhood friend's family had a 180-acre mostly row-crop farm we regularly hunted after school. This farm most years had 5 to 7 coveys of quail thriving on it.
As the quail populations seemed to be steadily decreasing over time (1980 - 2010), my childhood friend steadily improved his farm for quail. Unlike the many thousands of acres of surrounding mostly row-crop farms, my friend actually "improved" his fence-row cover, moved to "less clean" farming practices, and even planted plots of lespedeza and several native grasses.
His farm today has much more abundant and better quail habitat than it had back in the 1960's & 70's, when there were a lot of quail in that TN county. But for over a recent decade, he had zero quail on his farm. In 2019, a pair appeared and produced a covey. In 2020, there was again none. This spring, he says he's heard some distant birds whistling on the adjoining property, but has yet to see one this year on his property.
I hope our native TN bobwhites don't go extinct, but they've sure been trending that direction in most our counties.
For those highly interested . . . . . .
https://bringbackbobwhites.org/about-us/nbtc/nbtc-annual-meeting/
Displaced_Vol
Well-Known Member
It's disheartening when you got somebody doing it the "right way" or at least best they can, and they still struggle to keep good numbers.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Tell me about it.
My friend has zero known quail currently on his farm, despite his farm being fantastic quail habitat, much better than in times past, and surrounded by other row-crop farms.
Also, this is in a TN county once known for an abundance of quail, with more the county residents hunting quail back then than hunt both deer & turkey today! It was just amazing how many residents, even living in "town", owned "bird" dogs for quail hunting.
Although wild turkey seem less fragile birds than quail, it's a legitimate concern that wild turkey populations may be declining for many the same reasons that quail have become near extinction.
My fear is that a few decades into the future, hunters may be talking about the near extinction of wild turkeys much like some of us are now talking about what was once an abundance of Tennessee's native bobwhite quail.
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Displaced_Vol
Well-Known Member
Agree with those sentiments wholeheartedly @TheLBLman
I guess to add a positive outlook on it, because I'm feeling optimistic this fine Sunday, my hope is our biologists and more so the decades of experience will win out. If nothing else learning from how fragile the quail were will help (and already is I believe) insulate and maybe reverse the turkey trends. We recognize there's a problem before it's too late I guess.
I would love to see the day where quail are more abundant and that'll be a much tougher hill to climb but we're better at this now than we've ever been, so, just maybe we can make some inroads for them too. I know there's a lot of stuff being done in Texas looking at disease/pest infestation & several southern focused initiatives trying to help put them back on the landscape. The economics are a tough part to overcome but who knows what we may be able to do that we couldn't 10 years ago. I think awareness and interest in trapping and prescribed fires are two great, economical and fairly feasible ways we may get back in the game.
I guess to add a positive outlook on it, because I'm feeling optimistic this fine Sunday, my hope is our biologists and more so the decades of experience will win out. If nothing else learning from how fragile the quail were will help (and already is I believe) insulate and maybe reverse the turkey trends. We recognize there's a problem before it's too late I guess.
I would love to see the day where quail are more abundant and that'll be a much tougher hill to climb but we're better at this now than we've ever been, so, just maybe we can make some inroads for them too. I know there's a lot of stuff being done in Texas looking at disease/pest infestation & several southern focused initiatives trying to help put them back on the landscape. The economics are a tough part to overcome but who knows what we may be able to do that we couldn't 10 years ago. I think awareness and interest in trapping and prescribed fires are two great, economical and fairly feasible ways we may get back in the game.
TNGunsmoke
Well-Known Member
We had a covey of 13 or so last year on the farmland around our house. I've seen a couple of pairs this year, and hear them quite a bit. I enjoy listening to them and whistling back.
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
I think the aesthetics and peer pressure are harder for many to overcome than the economics are
Uncle Jesse
Well-Known Member
Back in the 90's there was a guy named Bob White that raised quail, funny I know but true, and he would turn his birds loose on our land and train his dogs. I guess that's why we had so many there for a while. But they seem to be all gone now
I've always considered the habitat around here to be very good and after reading the comments, I don't think we can point to loss of habitat as the main cause.
I've always considered the habitat around here to be very good and after reading the comments, I don't think we can point to loss of habitat as the main cause.
Dodge Man
Well-Known Member
I have heard more this year then many past years.
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
That's no surprise. Pen raised birds don't know how to be wild birds. They will have 99% mortality in the wild.
Where is "around here"? All it takes is a few poorly timed mowings (nesting season, late fall through winter) to eliminate cover. If there's no cover, they'll either move or get eaten. Either way they have no reason to come back.
This is good cover. Heard 3 in here. Not many folks will tolerate their place looking this "snakey"
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TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Speaking mainly about Tennessee, in many areas, a loss of good contiguous quail habitat may in fact be the single largest cause of the population decline. Some will say the single biggest cause was the introduction of fescue grass, but then, that was something that also broke up the good contiguous quail habitat.
It's just that even the single largest cause may not be even half the problem.
I think one thing we're only recently discovering is that, to thrive over multiple nesting cycles, quail need a much larger contiguous acreage of at least "good" habitat than was previously thought. A few hundred contiguous acres just may not be enough.
With all the continued increasing housing & industrial subdivisions, along with "clean" farms continuing to break up what was once more contiguous quail habitat, the future for quail remains relatively grim, no matter how much more we find out about what's caused the declinations.
Just because we find out more, doesn't mean we will be able (or willing) to do much differently.
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
My rule of thumb- if you can walk 100 yards through it without your ear bleeding from a briar, you're not walking in quail habitat
Uncle Jesse
Well-Known Member
Our land borders AEDC WMA. There's 32,000 huntable acres not counting safety zones and such
poorhunter
Well-Known Member
I'v never been convinced that the main problem with quail is habitat loss. As a wildlife biology student at Purdue we helped our major professor collect data and such to figure out why there was such a decline. To be honest though he was more interested is turkey restoration that quail got left to the side as years went by. Anyway, like I said, I never thought habitat loss was the main factor but I'm beginning to think that maybe it is. When I moved to Hickman County I was astounded at how much great habitat there was for quail and I thought for sure I'd be able to hunt some quail here. I've heard one quail since 2011 and I'm outside all the time. So as I'm thinking about quail wondering what may be the problem there's obviously lots of different factors involved, but the decline has been continual for decades. If it were a disease problem then it would be a year or two decline then a recovery. If it were predators the same thing would hold true. If it were a pest same thing. The climate is changing (NOT because of MMGW, just normal fluctuations) but quail don't mind the heat and there's water everywhere in Hickman. So whatever "it" is has to be relatively constant. The decline wasn't an overnight thing like what would happen in a disease outbreak, but slow and steady and constant year after year...kinda like we are seeing now with turkey populations.
WanderingNomad
Well-Known Member
I heard the Bobwhite's call yesterday morning here in Sumner Co and it put a smile on my face..
Mattt
Well-Known Member
Agree with most here but not all. I spend a lot of time hunting quail. Pretty decent dogs. We are all using what we know to think a patch looks like good habitat and I do the same at my house, but obviously something is off. Here in tn we are finding(in the last 7-8 years) as many of more birds I. Hardwoods than we do in what appears to be good cover. Rhea, Meigs, McMinn co. Are where I hunt locally, spend 35-45 days a season in Kansas/Missouri/Nebraska.filling in hunting here. Can usually flush 2 coveys/day on avg here but that's some mileage going in here. I'll do 10 miles a day easy and do t hunt he evenings. Out west about the same mileage but quadruple the flushes. We are missing something. Anyone figures it out please let me know.lol
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I'm in general agreement with you poorhunter, but want to elaborate a bit on your thoughts.
I believe over the decades, not only have quail predators increased, but they have evolved in becoming more efficient at killing quail. To some extent, I believe they evolved to hunt turkeys, particularly young turkeys, DURING DAYTIME, and inadvertently also became more efficient at stumbling into quail.
I'm talking mainly about coyotes & bobcats above. When I was young, areas with lots of quail in Tennessee had very few bobcats and zero coyotes. As bobcat & coyote populations exploded, it was many years, perhaps decades, before they are regularly observed hunting in mid-day. What are they hunting? I believe it's mainly turkeys. But in their daytime pursuit of young turkeys, they stumble into more quail (than they did when they were more nocturnal predators).
Now, yes, the hawks have always only hunted during daytime.
What's changed is that we've had a steady "continual" increase in the sheer number of hawks. Again, when I was young, they were low in numbers, and most were shot on sight if they came around a farmhouse.
Today, we must have somewhere between 10x and 100x more hawks in West TN than going back over 50 years ago when quail were abundant. This raptor increase has been every bit as "continual" over the decades as has the decrease in quail.
I disagree a little about the predators.
I believe over the decades, not only have quail predators increased, but they have evolved in becoming more efficient at killing quail. To some extent, I believe they evolved to hunt turkeys, particularly young turkeys, DURING DAYTIME, and inadvertently also became more efficient at stumbling into quail.
I'm talking mainly about coyotes & bobcats above. When I was young, areas with lots of quail in Tennessee had very few bobcats and zero coyotes. As bobcat & coyote populations exploded, it was many years, perhaps decades, before they are regularly observed hunting in mid-day. What are they hunting? I believe it's mainly turkeys. But in their daytime pursuit of young turkeys, they stumble into more quail (than they did when they were more nocturnal predators).
Now, yes, the hawks have always only hunted during daytime.
What's changed is that we've had a steady "continual" increase in the sheer number of hawks. Again, when I was young, they were low in numbers, and most were shot on sight if they came around a farmhouse.
Today, we must have somewhere between 10x and 100x more hawks in West TN than going back over 50 years ago when quail were abundant. This raptor increase has been every bit as "continual" over the decades as has the decrease in quail.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I agree.
To add to what has been "constant",
there has been a steady increase in raptors, while bobcats & coyote have come from near non-existence to high numbers, while steadily "evolving" to DAYTIME hunt turkeys, which has resulted in their stumbling into more quail.
The other constant has been the progressive increase in insecticide use, along with the progressive decrease in good contiguous quail habitat. Young quail survive on insects. "Clean" farming usually cleans out many the insects as well.
As to why you may be finding more birds now in less than stellar habitat, possibly an adaptation by the surviving quail, as maybe they're more vulnerable to predation in "better" quail habitat? Maybe young quail are more likely to find insects in the woods than in a "clean" farmer's field?
When quail successfully nest in good quail habitat, but there are no insects for those just hatched chicks to eat, they all die.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
We are all missing something, but I do think it's a bit of everything as much as any one thing. In Tennessee, the biggest single factor that began the decline may have been the introduction of fescue hay replacing our native grasses, which would be a type of habitat loss.
I have some friends who quail hunt in several western states (and TN). They say the quail numbers are declining out west as well, just still a lot more quail in western states. My friends who hunt quail in Texas also say the quail numbers there seem to be steadily on the decline (much like the turkey numbers all across the Southeast as well).
