QDM paying off big time!

[deaddownwind]

This buck limit forum got me thinking. Just because you have a three buck limit doesnt meant you have to kill three! For at least ten years, several neighbors in my area have been trying not to kill anything under 130" and/or 4.5. Several deer over 150" and many many between 130-150" have been taken in this area. This group also tries to take deer that are 4.5 or older with inferior racks (eg. short tine 8's, big 6's, etc...) while letting a larger antlered 3.5 go. The average hunter in that area will kill 3 bucks every two years I'd say. Over those years great success has been achieved using this method. You hear it all from other locals from "ya'll have better genetics over there" to "our deer don't get that big" Bla bla bla..... In the past few years others have started letting young 2.5 year olds walk and trying to kill a 3.5 or older deer with a little success. Each year it has been getting better. More people in the area are killing deer over 125" consistently. It seems that alot of people are getting the idea of "that if I don't kill it someone else will" out of their head. The main thing to learn there is that if "you kill the deer, there is 0% chance you will see what he is next year". If you let him go, at least he has a chance. Sure, others will kill deer you let "walk" but thats part of hunting and QDM in the free range world. I've had the people that shoot three 2.5's beside me every year. I know it's not fun seeing "Jack" kill all the deer you're letting go. They too will eventually mess up and kill a big one and see the light. At least that has happened in most cases I have witnessed. I see people on here complaining saying deer in TN can't have big bodies or antlers because we do not have the "genetics". Genetics definately help the antler and body size, but without age and good food sources, genetics are nothing. I would say the average buck killed in a 6 or 7 mile radius of where I hunt has went up 10" in the last 5 years because of QDM. People see others killing big deer around them and want to do the same. Within that 6 0r 7 mile radius, there have been 5 deer 150-165" and 12 between 130-149" already this year. The largest field dressed body weight being #208 and #205. Pretty cool to see what letting deer get age on them will do. I enjoy seeing people truly excited about killing a deer instead of shooting the same 2.5 year old eight point ever year, cutting the rack off, and throwing antlers in a box in the barn because "deer don't get big in TN". Shoot a doe if you want meat and let the young bucks grow another year if you dont like TN deer size. Just my thoughts. Happy Hunting everyone!

 

[wobblegobble]

My in-laws join the 6-7 mile radius and thier neighbors kill 5 deer a piece! Yeah I said 5! Ive seen what deaddownwind's group is doing and envy em. Another thing that helps all is yall control 1,000's of acres! Most can't control that much....like me 120 acres and fools on every edge!

 

[hunterncoach]

My in-laws join the 6-7 mile radius and thier neighbors kill 5 deer a piece! Yeah I said 5! Ive seen what deaddownwind's group is doing and envy em. Another thing that helps all is yall control 1,000's of acres! Most can't control that much....like me 120 acres and fools on every edge!

You are right, but all it takes is a couple guys inviting the fellas who hunt around them to a barbeque...give 'em some cold beer and try to start working together. We've done that and in some cases it works, others it doesn't, but thats all you can do in these type situations

 

[wobblegobble]

Here are a couple of the deer , missing a few.

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[ttf909]

true to all of that. tn can grow good deer.

 

[Jmed]

I agree and applaud. We are seeing the results of letting the little ones walk as well.

 

[Savage]

Awesome guys.

Here is my biggest issue. I have a 90 acre tract to hunt. Its long and narrow. No opportunity to plant food plot, develop it, etc. Its a working cattle farm.

I cant keep every buck on that property ALL the time. If you have one neighbor that doesnt adhere to QDM, it ruins the entire model. I may pass on that 120" 2 YO 8 point, but my neighbor who is used to shooting 18 m.o. deer may think he's a trophy and bust him.

Ive been passing immature deer for 12 years. In that time period, Ive killed 3 3.5yo bucks, and one 4.5. Ive literally passed probably 100 small bucks in the same time period, and at one time was running 8 trail cams. I have only 3 occurences during that time when I KNOW for a fact that I got pics of a 2.5 year old deer, and then pics of the same deer the following year.

QDM will work. It works good on large tracts of land where the deer basically stay on the same property all season. It works GREAT when everyone that may see that same deer are on the same playing field and of like mind set. A large majority of Tennesseans adhere to this mindset; however, for those of us hunting small pieces of property, the quality of deer will not reach its full potential with a 3 buck limit. We are limited on the size of deer we kill by the person in the area who has the lowest standards.

 

[TheRealSpurhunter]

I applaud your efforts Deaddownwind.
How much land do you run, and what county?

 

[Mike Belt]

To each his own but when you see a 125"+ rack come bobbing through he woods towards you it's not the same as seeing those 100 inchers....and those 100 inchers don't make 125"+ by dying young. I fully understand the frustration of many hunters hunting smaller tracts of land because it's almost impossible to affect the dynamics of the buck population by their individual hunting styles and I wish I could offer a solution to their problem. Seeing and killing larger racked bucks can be very addictive and it can be contagious. It might be a wise move to sponsor some type of land owner/lease get together and put some type of plan on the board. You might be surprised.

 

[Crosshairy]

Whenever I get into these discussions, it always ends with me thinking "I need to accumulate a pile of money to buy land".

Then, I realize that I will never have enough money to buy the amount of land I need to implement a strong QDM program. I just despise the idea of spending big bucks every year to gain zero equity in anything (in leasing land), but maybe that still is my best option.

In a nutshell, I want to shoot 2-3 does a year for meat, and then have a reasonable chance at a respectable buck (say, 110"+)

My current situation - low expectations on buck quality, keep hunting public land (FREE), and shoot does when I get the chance.

Mike - as someone who hunts at Ames, do they offer members the chance to fill the freezer, or is it really only about antlers? I know you are allowed to shoot does at some point, but I don't recall the specifics.

 

[BSK]

Love to hear of your success deaddownwind. I keep trying to tell people/hunters that it doesn't take a huge amount of money or a huge amount of land to see some successes with QDM harvest guidelines in place. Even just a patchwork quilt of properties practicing QDM will make a difference.

At the same time, I still want to caution many to not create unrealistic expectations FOR THEIR AREA. A hunter must take into account the level of over-all hunting pressure, and the quality of the local habitat before setting goals. Sky-high goals in an area of limited potential is going to lead to some unhappy and disgruntled hunters.

What I'm getting at is there are places in TN where simply allowing bucks a couple more years of age will produce a considerable number of 125-135 gross bucks, and even a few 150+ inch bucks each year. But that isn't the case for MOST of TN.

 

[Rackseeker]

What yall are doing has to be helping but the acorn crop in the mountains has something to do with it. Most of the deer are low this year, using the fields at night. Deer are going to where the food is and the acorns aren't in the mountains this year. One of the worse years I can remember as far as a acorn crop.

 

[wobblegobble]

What yall are doing has to be helping but the acorn crop in the mountains has something to do with it. Most of the deer are low this year, using the fields at night. Deer are going to where the food is and the acorns aren't in the mountains this year. One of the worse years I can remember as far as a acorn crop.

This is not a one time thing, they shoot 140 inch deer or better every year.

 

[Rackseeker]

What yall are doing has to be helping but the acorn crop in the mountains has something to do with it. Most of the deer are low this year, using the fields at night. Deer are going to where the food is and the acorns aren't in the mountains this year. One of the worse years I can remember as far as a acorn crop.

This is not a one time thing, they shoot 140 inch deer or better every year.

That area of the county isn't the only part of the county that produces 140"+ deer every year. You just don't hear as much about them on here. Cutting out most of the atv riding, abundant food source, and QDM all factors in on the results in that area.
Keep posting all those pics and details maybe it will take some of the pressure off other land in the county.LOL...

 

[wobblegobble]

No one said it was only area, he said this is what qdm can do. Like he said more 130's have been killed this year than ever from all around the county. The atv riding didn't hurt hunting anyhow, those deer were so use to seeing atv's they didn't spooked.

 

[wobblegobble]

There have been 3 deer that scored 155-165 killed in Mingo n lexie areas in the last 2 weeks.

 

[Rackseeker]

The atv riding didn't hurt hunting anyhow, those deer were so use to seeing atv's they didn't spooked.

They are use to farm trucks to, thats what gets a lot of those deer killed down around that area. LOL.. All kiddin aside that is a awesome area for sure.

 

[primos32]

Congrats on your success! It's addictive when you start seeing results like that and there's always something it seems you can do to try to make it better. Keep up the good work.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

one thing for sure,qdm really works because this area is rough terrain.i have seen a major difference in my area as well

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Success breeds success. We have some what of a co-op going (4 or 5 land owners).And it's seems to me that our bucks have gained around 10 inches or more for older age class bucks the last few years. There was a article in the QDMA magazine last year that talked about a maternial effect, and how it takes a couple generations for things to improve. My question is how much can it keeping improving, will it top out or will success keep breeding success?

 

[Rackseeker]

I just wish we could get everyone on board to practice QDM on our lease. The deer that need passing are the ones that are getting killed on our lease. We have a 8pt or better rule but most 8pt that get killed are 2.5 year old. Are a lot of the hunters in that area planting food plots in the fields?

 

[Spikes Tactical]

congrats - great buck

 

[deaddownwind]

There are some in the fields and alot of small ones in the Mtn. The field food plots are mostly crop fields not actually "deer" food plots which work the same or better obviously. Where most of the consistent big deer are killed there have been no atv rides through the areas in many many years. I know the guys personally that kill the big ones consistently and they always see the numbers they are seeing this year. The cool thing that I was applauding was that alot more people around are letting the 2.5 year olds walk. We are fortunate to have so many people pulling together to have such great success.

 

[BSK]

The cool thing that I was applauding was that alot more people around are letting the 2.5 year olds walk. We are fortunate to have so many people pulling together to have such great success.

And that's what it takes to see the kind of success you are experiencing. Glad it's working for you!

 

[BSK]

There was a article in the QDMA magazine last year that talked about a maternial effect, and how it takes a couple generations for things to improve. My question is how much can it keeping improving, will it top out or will success keep breeding success?

Improvements due specifically to the maternal health effect would begin with deer born the first year does are considerably healthier all year than they had been in the past. The newborn deer must then live to near maturity to see the benefits.

All management programs eventually "max out." How far "maximum" is depends on the local area, especially deer density and hunter density (harvest pressure). Areas of high deer density and low hunter density will have a much higher "maximum level" than areas with low deer densities and high hunter densities.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

There was a article in the QDMA magazine last year that talked about a maternial effect, and how it takes a couple generations for things to improve. My question is how much can it keeping improving, will it top out or will success keep breeding success?

Improvements due specifically to the maternal health effect would begin with deer born the first year does are considerably healthier all year than they had been in the past. The newborn deer must then live to near maturity to see the benefits.

All management programs eventually "max out." How far "maximum" is depends on the local area, especially deer density and hunter density (harvest pressure). Areas of high deer density and low hunter density will have a much higher "maximum level" than areas with low deer densities and high hunter densities.

Here is what I was talking about BSK
Here are some quotes from the study.

�It means that if you do habitat manipulations to try to improve habitat for deer, don�t expect the population to respond within one generation, especially if the animals have been on a low-quality diet for a long period of time,� Jenks said.

'Instead, managers must consider the possibility of time lags that could persist for multiple generations even as animal populations respond to improved environmental conditions'

"Biologists have known about the lag between improved diet and improved condition of animals, but they haven�t known why it takes place. Some previous studies have concluded that a time lag in population response to improved conditions was a direct result of the delay in recovery of vegetation.

Jenks said the SDSU study offers clear evidence that an important factor in that time lag can be intergenerational maternal effects in a population that experienced stress'

 

[G8rntn]

What county are these pics from? Nice deer by the way!

 

[BSK]

Yup, I'm aware of that research 8 POINTS, and I agree with it.

 

[Football Hunter]

How long is a deer "generation"?

 

[BSK]

How long is a deer "generation"?

Depends on how the term is being used. Often, it is used to refer to how long it takes for the entire deer population to roll over (all new deer), which is approximately 7 years. However, if it is used in a reproductive sense, then 1-2 years, as most females produce their first offspring right around their 2nd birthday (although a few produce their first offspring on their 1st birthday [bred as a fawn]).