Food Plots New plots

[BSK]

In the past, when creating a new food plot, I usually looked for a location that: 1) would require the least equipment, time, and manpower to clean into a food plot, such as old log loading decks; or 2) was in the best location for deer traffic. However, over the years I learned poor-quality soils outweigh everything else. Now I choose food plot locations almost exclusively by local soil quality. In essence, find the best soil. Better soil means better plot growth which will draw the deer.

My two newest plots, in locations chosen for soil quality. Not a rock in them. The only problem has been typical of a newly cleared location; i.e. roots, and lots of them. But they will slowly clear away over the next couple of years.

 

[BSK]

Also in the past, I preferred lots of little small food plots, because bucks are more likely to step into a small opening in daylight versus a big opening. However, I've learned that when it comes to crop production, bigger is better. Surrounding trees really suck the moisture and nutrients out of food plot soil. If you want a lot of plant growth (higher forage production), have more open ground. Now, I would prefer one 1-acre plot versus four 1/4-acre plots.

The above pictured plots are 1 acre on the left, just over 1 1/2 acres on the right.

 

[buckaroo]

Subsoiler for the roots

 

[Antler Daddy]

Looks good!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Looks great! In your opinion, where was the best place to start once the timber was hauled off? It looks as though you had everything pushed off to the sides. We prefer not to do that, but rather de-stump and pile up with the tree tops and have a few burn cycles. Then push off to the sides with a lot less eye sores and faster decomposing of the existing wood, etc....

Trying to find the most efficient method in doing this. We have 2 new food plots clear-cut (9 to go) and ready for equipment. We have access to 3 pieces of equipment: Trackhoe, Track loader and a D6 dozer

 

[DoubleRidge]

Looks great! In your opinion, where was the best place to start once the timber was hauled off? It looks as though you had everything pushed off to the sides. We prefer not to do that, but rather de-stump and pile up with the tree tops and have a few burn cycles. Then push off to the sides with a lot less eye sores and faster decomposing of the existing wood, etc....

Trying to find the most efficient method in doing this. We have 2 new food plots clear-cut (9 to go) and ready for equipment. We have access to 3 pieces of equipment: Trackhoe, Track loader and a D6 dozer

Look forward to hearing BSK opinion on the topic.....for our project the timber company took allot of pulp wood so we didn't have allot of large tree tops....bundles of limbs yes...but most of what we had to deal with was large stumps....which don't burn well....and while we had a trackhoe and D6 on the job....the clock was ticking.... runtime = cost.....I asked about piling and burning all stumps from the 2 acre & 3 acre plots and he estimated couple days minimum... budget didn't allow that....so with both new plots being on ridge tops we had the stumps pushed off into the bottom of the hollow out of sight.....some debris is around side of plot but mostly loose trash that will rot down quickly.....no big stumps or tree tops are piled at edge of plot....it was the most cost effective option for our situation.....happy with how it turned out....now the focus is shifting too building our soil quality.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Look forward to hearing BSK opinion on the topic.....for our project the timber company took allot of pulp wood so we didn't have allot of large tree tops....bundles of limbs yes...but most of what we had to deal with was large stumps....which don't burn well....and while we had a trackhoe and D6 on the job....the clock was ticking.... runtime = cost.....I asked about piling and burning all stumps from the 2 acre & 3 acre plots and he estimated couple days minimum... budget didn't allow that....so with both new plots being on ridge tops we had the stumps pushed off into the bottom of the hollow out of sight.....some debris is around side of plot but mostly loose trash that will rot down quickly.....no big stumps or tree tops are piled at edge of plot....it was the most cost effective option for our situation.....happy with how it turned out....now the focus is shifting too building our soil quality.

We are also thinking about doing as you mentioned - pushing all of the stumps down into a hollow. A lot of the new plots are adjacent to our burn areas., so those are a no-brainer. However 5 of them are not, but have a steep ravine at the corner of each one. We may push them down into that and let them rot. Then, just pile and burn the tops. That probably won't take long.

Ya'll know how distrubt a newly-cut area looks. There is stuff laying everywhere and you can't see half the stumps under limbs, tops, etc....Trying to decide if the track hoe or track loader would be more efficient starting out. The logger is leaving 2 feet of the stump so we can have some leverage getting out. The dozer will come in last for the final steps.

 

[DoubleRidge]

We are also thinking about doing as you mentioned - pushing all of the stumps down into a hollow. A lot of the new plots are adjacent to our burn areas., so those are a no-brainer. However 5 of them are not, but have a steep ravine at the corner of each one. We may push them down into that and let them rot. Then, just pile and burn the tops. That probably won't take long.

Ya'll know how distrubt a newly-cut area looks. There is stuff laying everywhere and you can't see half the stumps under limbs, tops, etc....Trying to decide if the track hoe or track loader would be more efficient starting out. The logger is leaving 2 feet of the stump so we can have some leverage getting out. The dozer will come in last for the final steps.

The tops will burn up quick....and a trackhoe and D6 will have those plots cleaned up quick....I was amazed at what one man was able to accomplish from one day to the next..... exciting to make progress! Enjoy the process!

 

[BSK]

Looks great! In your opinion, where was the best place to start once the timber was hauled off? It looks as though you had everything pushed off to the sides. We prefer not to do that, but rather de-stump and pile up with the tree tops and have a few burn cycles. Then push off to the sides with a lot less eye sores and faster decomposing of the existing wood, etc....

Trying to find the most efficient method in doing this. We have 2 new food plots clear-cut (9 to go) and ready for equipment. We have access to 3 pieces of equipment: Trackhoe, Track loader and a D6 dozer

I would MUCH prefer trees/stumps piled in the middle and burned. Not only is it less of an eyesore, the burned ashes do wonders for new soil. In addition, trees/stumps piled along the edges provide too many denning locations for coyotes. But I had to live with what the loggers were willing to do, and pushing trees/stumps to the edges was the limit of their food plot knowledgebase. And by the way, I have zero equipment for moving trees/dirt. That little 32 HP John Deere in the first picture is the sum total of our equipment.

 

[BSK]

Ya'll know how distrubt a newly-cut area looks. There is stuff laying everywhere and you can't see half the stumps under limbs, tops, etc....Trying to decide if the track hoe or track loader would be more efficient starting out. The logger is leaving 2 feet of the stump so we can have some leverage getting out. The dozer will come in last for the final steps.

Everything depends on how wet the soil is. If wet, a dozer pushes stumps out quite easily. But if the soil is hard and dry, a track-hoe makes quicker work of stumps because it can get down underneath and lift.

 

[BSK]

Personally, I was just thrilled I could get the loggers to clear those spots for me free of charge. If I had been paying someone to clear those spots, I would have done it differently (burned left over debris). I have plots that 20 years later I can still see where the burn pile was because the plants grow so much better from all the ash.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Personally, I was just thrilled I could get the loggers to clear those spots for me free of charge. If I had been paying someone to clear those spots, I would have done it differently (burned left over debris). I have plots that 20 years later I can still see where the burn pile was because the plants grow so much better from all the ash.

Totally agree with the decision you all made for the situation. Even with everything piled up on the sides, once that sucker is lush green, that will be the focal point and be beautiful. Plus, it looks like you all can now key in on specific entrances and exits the deer/turkeys will use for feeding, etc....

As far as the ashes (that I eluded to), that's why we are trying to burn as much stuff as we can, because we will then try to spread some of those ashes out (the best we can) with the dozer and box blade. We will have 2 tractors running with discs and pull logs behind those discs to level out as much as possible. Should be quick moving as soon as we can start getting everything piled up. Just didn't know the best method. Heck, I've already got the drip torches ready.

Thanks for keeping us abreast of your progress - I love this stuff more than the hunting itself.

 

[BSK]

The best method I've seen for burning tree/stump piles involved a portable gas-powered fan than also sprayed a thin stream of diesel fuel onto the log pile. I wish I knew where to get one of these. I've searched around the internet and have found brush pile burning fans, but not ones that also sprayed the stream of fuel. Anyone know what they're called?

Had a guy use when on our log piles in winter and that thing burned a hole straight through the pile of logs in an hour or two. Extremely efficient, especially on green logs.

 

[DoubleRidge]

The best method I've seen for burning tree/stump piles involved a portable gas-powered fan than also sprayed a thin stream of diesel fuel onto the log pile. I wish I knew where to get one of these. I've searched around the internet and have found brush pile burning fans, but not ones that also sprayed the stream of fuel. Anyone know what they're called?

Had a guy use when on our log piles in winter and that thing burned a hole straight through the pile of logs in an hour or two. Extremely efficient, especially on green logs.

Interesting....never heard of such a device?.....but a cordless leaf blower will sure get a brush pile roaring in a hurry....I've used the leaf blower multiple times to get one going good.....not on green logs....but it makes brush burning go quick!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

but a cordless leaf blower will sure get a brush pile roaring in a hurry....I've used the leaf blower multiple times to get one going good.....not on green logs....but it makes brush burning go quick!

I will definitely put that in my arsenal to get those flames roaring.

 

[BSK]

Ventry specifically makes fans for burning brush piles. Here's a link to their website:

https://ventry.com/blogs/faqs/a-ventry-fan-assists-with-burning-brush-piles
Interestingly, on their website they respond to the question about fans spraying a mist of diesel fuel. They say they don't make one and they don't know anyone who does because of the inherent safety problems. But I actually saw one in use (and thought, "Can that be safe?").

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Ventry specifically makes fans for burning brush piles. Here's a link to their website:

https://ventry.com/blogs/faqs/a-ventry-fan-assists-with-burning-brush-piles
Interestingly, on their website they respond to the question about fans spraying a mist of diesel fuel. They say they don't make one and they don't know anyone who does because of the inherent safety problems. But I actually saw one in use (and thought, "Can that be safe?").

Just watched a few videos on YouTube on these. I'm willing to bet a couple backpack blowers will really agitate some flames

 

[BSK]

Just watched a few videos on YouTube on these. I'm willing to bet a couple backpack blowers will really agitate some flames

Undoubtedly.

 

[megalomaniac]

The best method I've seen for burning tree/stump piles involved a portable gas-powered fan than also sprayed a thin stream of diesel fuel onto the log pile. I wish I knew where to get one of these. I've searched around the internet and have found brush pile burning fans, but not ones that also sprayed the stream of fuel. Anyone know what they're called?

Had a guy use when on our log piles in winter and that thing burned a hole straight through the pile of logs in an hour or two. Extremely efficient, especially on green logs.

It's called a fire curtain

Crew doing the the groundwork for the new compressor station on my lease cleared and burned 7 acres of 18yo pines green with that thing in a couple weeks. Not sure why they didn't market the timber, but they have tight deadlines.

 

[tellico4x4]

Bryan, what's your plan for lime on new plots? I'm in same boat with 8 new plots just cleared.These were 3 yr old loading decks so stumps fairly rotten & cleaned up well.
Already have dolomite scheduled next month for all our other plots & these will get it too, but that's not going to do anything for this fall...Thought I'd go ahead and hit them with pellitized now as well. Have never doubled up before though.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Tellico - I'm not familiar with dolomite. We have wayyy too much going on right now on our place to think about soil tests/liming/fertilizing our new plots. Definitely not BSK, but I would say if you are able, I'd get pelletized lime out asap, and it will likely be fairly effective this fall - that's 5-6 months out for it to kick in.

Our plan for our new plots is to just plant elbon rye and crimson clover into them, since they will grow virtually anywhere. Let those get established, fertilize and lime late fall/early winter for our spring/summer crops. Just another option to throw out there.

 

[BSK]

Already have dolomite scheduled next month for all our other plots & these will get it too, but that's not going to do anything for this fall...Thought I'd go ahead and hit them with pellitized now as well. Have never doubled up before though.

This is exactly what I'm doing. Have already spread 3,600# of pelletized lime in these new plots for a jump start, and will hit them with dolomite in fall.

Unfortunately, I bought my local Co-op out of pelletized lime last week and have to search around for more.

 

[BSK]

Some pre-existing plots freshly tilled

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Looks great! I can't wait for ours to look like that. I walked a newly logged area for a food plot this weekend. It's going to be about 2.5 acres, but right now it is just tree tops and stumps. It's ready for the big equipment.

 

[megalomaniac]

Looks great! You need to get a no till drill now that you have enough acres of plots to justify the initial cost.

 

[BSK]

Looks great! You need to get a no till drill now that you have enough acres of plots to justify the initial cost.

Never going to happen! Although I won't go into it in too much depth (because I'll take so much criticism), ever since I started breaking all the "new rules" of food plotting, I've started growing the best plots I've ever had. But I'll also be the first to admit the way I'm food plotting is based on my local conditions. If I had better soil to start with, I would be a seed-drilling no-till monster.

 

[megalomaniac]

Never going to happen! Although I won't go into it in too much depth (because I'll take so much criticism), ever since I started breaking all the "new rules" of food plotting, I've started growing the best plots I've ever had. But I'll also be the first to admit the way I'm food plotting is based on my local conditions. If I had better soil to start with, I would be a seed-drilling no-till monster.

Im curious... your plots on are steep ridge tops, correct? How do you avoid erosion? Just get something in the ground asap to germinate before erosion? And how do you stay ahead of the weeds when you are bringing up new ones all the time to the surface? Those would seem to be the biggest 2 advantages of going no till in your situation.

For me, the biggest advantage of going no till is not having to deal with nearly as much weed competition. It's taken 2 consecutive fall drillings, but now I have almost zero weed competition in any of my plots (but I'm still using a LOT of herbicides prior to planting to ensure I don't have competition)

 

[BSK]

Mega,

My place is all steep ridge-and-hollow. But to reduce erosion, the only places we'll make food plots is where it's almost perfectly flat. This leads to lots of long narrow plots along ridge-tops. Most are 150+ yards long by less than 30 yards wide. For one of my new plots, I used the widest ridge-top I've got on the property and the plot came out to 180 yards long and 60 yards wide. But keeping plots only on flat ground reduces erosion considerably. We still have some, but so far, not a major problem.

After many, many years of burning down all the plots with Roundup in August, we have few weeds in the existing plots. What used to grow 5-7 feet high with weeds and grasses over the summer now only have knee high foxtail and a few other broadleaf weeds when let go fallow for the summer months. This is our first attempt at warm-season annuals in a long time, so only time will tell how weed competition goes this year. In fact, as an experiment to see the worst case scenario, I did not herbicide the exist plots before tilling. Just tilled under the crimson and wheat. I'll be interested to see how much weed competition we get in those plots over the summer. IF it appears we have enough acreage to get forage soybeans up tall enough that deer can't wipe them all out right after germination, I'll probably switch to an all Roundup Ready mixture of summer crops in the future. But this first year is just an experiment, mixing buckwheat as a cover crop in with Iron and Clay Cowpeas and RR forage soybeans.

 

[BSK]

The primary reason I've gone back to heavy tillage practices is because of our local conditions. The ridge-tops where most of our plots are located are pure chert gravel held together like concrete by a little clay in between. Go down 6 to 8 inches and you hit 4-6 inch layers of solid chert rock (which tends to break into grapefruit-sized chunks). The two biggest problems with trying to food plot in this soil is lack of actual soil profile and the surface hardpan's inability to allow rainwater to percolate down into the soil and carry any nutrients with it. Even after a torrential summer thunderstorm, an inch down the ground is bone dry. Water runs right off. To get water and nutrient transport downwards, and to produce an actual soil profile, we HAD TO break the surface hardpan.

In late summer, I've tried everything to break the surface hardpan, and nothing works. Not discs, no chisel plows, not tillers. Perhaps a dozer with rippers would work but that would bring up a huge amount of rock. The only way I've found to break the surface hardpan is to try it the first time in early spring when the soil has its maximum water absorption from winter rains, say sometime in early to mid March. At that point a very heavy disc like a forestry disc would be able to turn the ground enough for a rotary tiller to work with it.

For years I tried the no-till method of soil-building, where biological matter is mowed down onto the ground and allowed to build a humus layer. However, after years of doing this I found I was building up about an 1-2 inches of humus, but that was sitting right on the hardpan. Digging up growing plants showed me their roots were running sideways right along the top of the hardpan. That won't get plants through a droughty summer.

Now that I've tilled the plots for 3-4 years, I've got 4-6 inches of nice humus. It's STILL sitting on a hardpan, but at least the hardpan is 6-8 inches down. Plus I've found 4-6 inches of tilling allows rainwater to really soak in. I THINK the soil will finally hold enough moisture over the summer to grow summer annuals. But we shall see...

 

[megalomaniac]

BSK, just curious... why not make some plots down in the valley as well that have the better soils and more moisture? Are all the vallies too narrow and have running water? Been a long time since I went thru your place to Dr Phil's.

Regardless, I would think once you bust up the hard pan a couple years and get roots in the ground, it would respond well to no tilling... but no reason if you arent having trouble with weeds or erosion.

My farms have similar problems but for totally different reasons. We have about 12inches of soil before hitting solid limestone in most places. When it's wet, it's standing water. When it's dry, it's BONE dry. All my success the past couple years on the new farm I've bought were because of well spaced and timely rains. I have no illusion it will be that that every year.